Knowing God

[StaySalty]

Christianity to me use to mean accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, reading your Bible, going to Church, praying, and avoiding sin. Through great tragedy (unfortunately) I have discovered that this is false and dangerously inaccurate.

Christianity, I now know, is accepting Christ as Lord and Savior and then commiting your life to Him, which means following Him. And to follow Him, it appears that you must KNOW Him. And knowing Him takes time spent with Him.

There are many things about Christ that are not found in the Bible, and you might be surprised (for example) at some of the things He might say or do in YOUR life.

When people say you must have a personal relationship, it is SO true! This is especially true if you happen to be one of the people God calls into ministry (note, I did not say people who chose to go into ministry, but the ones God CALLS).

In this personal relationship I would suggest to any Christian who wishes to remain alive in Christ that they learn directly from Christ and from Him only.

Christians and people say a ton of inaccurate non-sense and (more importantly), they ultimately can do nothing for you.

A few things I have learned from the relationship I USE to have with God:
- If, as a Christian, you are religious...stop it! You might be saved but you had BETTER get a FIRM grasp on what GRACE means soon or you are asking for all kinds of problems in your walk with the Lord
- God can give YOUNG people (age 25 and under) great responsiblilities too, and He doesn't take lightly to immaturity
- If you are a loner and you are saved, God will probably consider you selfish
- God has favorites (ie: John was the disciple Jesus loved)
- God has a sense of humor (awkward as it may be)
- God can say things that, if a person said them we would consider it rude (ie: God can be sarcastic)
- God can be demanding when He REALLY wants something
- God can manipulate people to have favor or lose favor with you apart from your own actions.
- God loves you but He doesn't always talk like it
- God laughs at you if you try to make things work on your own
- God will let you fall and even die if you get arrogant or proud
- God doesn't always help you in ways that you would like Him to
- God doesn't like excuses
- God uses Christians to reach non-Christians. And if Christians do not do what He calls them to, others can get hurt.
- God does not always have backup plans. Case in point, if Noah did not build the Ark, God probably would have destroyed all of humanity instead of finding another Noah
- God can act slowly OR quickly when He wants to.
- God wants you to bring Christ GLORY NOT SHAME! Which means you must be wary of how you appear to others
- God can hold you responsible for the lives of others
- Whenever God is strongly at work in your life, you can BET your last penny Satan will be right there working against you even stronger (though not more powerful if you don't let him)
- God is an "I told you so" BIG TIME!
- God can be indifferent if you do not obey Him
- God WILL judge mistakes!
- God doesn't always give second chances

and finally,

- God does not remove obstacles often, but expects you to call on Him for aid when you face them.

Whether you believe these things or not, they are ALL TRUE! And if God has not (yet) behaved this way in your life be thankful. But just note, the closer you get to God, the more He expects out of you, and the more you WILL see these attributes of God (potentially) Of course I am only addressing Holy Spirit filled Christians here.

 

[norbie]

well this is quite a statement. knowing GOD? there is only ONE way to know GOD: he sent his son JESUS to get to know the father, remember 'who knows me knows the father...'
and how do we know? through the gospel writers only.
i can't agree with your 'noah' statement and GOD doesn't give us a second chance also, GOD loves you to much, you are his creation he will give you a million chances to follow him...
your brother in CHRIST norbie

 

[light_eclipseca]

I think I actually agree with pretty much everything you just said in the senses that I could interpet them as, except that you "shouldn't learn anything from anyone except Christ".

In this personal relationship I would suggest to any Christian who wishes to remain alive in Christ that they learn directly from Christ and from Him only.

Since Christ told us to make disciples, and part of that mission is "teaching them to obey" as Jesus put it, if what you are saying is true, then Jesus wanted His disciples to teach about a relationship with Him, but He wanted no one to listen to them. This doesn't seem likely. We need to learn from eachother and from Christ. It's not only one relationship that God is concerned about. "They will know you are mine by the love that you show eachother". Jesus cares about our relationships with eachother and our humblenes before eachother. "Whoever is the greatest will be the least" is a value which North American Christianity has lost over the past 100 yrs. It really is true. The ones who lift themselves up and separate themselves from their brothers/sisters and their Teachers (who God ordained to teach them) will suffer and so will the body of Christ (the Church), because they will never come close to reaching their full potential without learning from the ones who God has placed them under to help guide them; and in turn they will not be able to help others grow closer to Christ.

According to Paul, we need Teachers because they were given by God for the edifying of the Church.

Also, if the statement you said about us only learning from Christ about our personal relationship is true, then who are you to teach us this? If I take your suggestion and only learn from Christ, then I shouldn't listen to your suggestion, for then I would be learning from you. Your very suggestion was self-refuting.

But, about the backup plans I would agree with you, and I would take it one step furthur and say that because He is God, He knows everything from beginning to end. I think that He only has one plan and that He has never made a mistake, and thus needs no backup plans ever.

 

[elsbeth]

I pretty much agree with you, but plesase, please be aware that He may deal somewhat differently with different people, because WE are different, not because He changes. I have to take a different approach with one of my sons than I do with the other.

 

[CoolWater]

You are right on... and I'd like to add two more.

As soon as you get comfortable intertpreting God one way, he changes it up, leaving you utterly confused.

and

When God speaks, you can bet there is always purpose, regardless of how insignificant it might seem.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Just to clarify, people can't lose their relationship with God.

 

[BigBrycer777]

Just to clarify, people can't lose their relationship with God.

Do continue. Please expound on this. Or rephrase it.

 

[Jothemano]

So what's the definition of Grace? What should I do in my life to make me a good, God serving Christian? U must know the answers since u brought this up, That's why I am going to ask u. Daily/Monthly Routine might help. Thank You ahead of time!!!
And Peace be with you all!!!

 

[JTLauder]

Congratulations, StaySalty, on your spiritual awakening. This is exactly why Billy Graham reports only a small percentage of people claiming to be Christians are actually real Christians. As you've found out, "Christianity" in terms of following Christ, has nothing to do with the organized religion of "Christianity"--it's all about your relationship with Christ.

In regards to certain points you've made...

- If, as a Christian, you are religious...stop it! You might be saved but you had BETTER get a FIRM grasp on what GRACE means soon or your are asking for all kinds of problems in you walk with the Lord

I disagree with this statement, and it's too simplistic a statement.
First, as you've found out, being a Christian has nothing to do with following religious traditions and rituals, but about knowing Christ. That is what gets you saved. People simply going through the motions of being religous will not get them saved, but they are only deceiving themselves.

The other point about it being too simplistic a statement is that while it's true that being "religious" does not lead to salvation, there is value in spiritual disciplines such as prayer, worship, and studying the Bible. These things all help to lead us to a better understanding of God and helps maintain a disciplined and obedient walk with him. And we shouldn't abandon them just because they are a part of organized Christianity

- God does not always have backup plans. Case in point, if Noah did not build the Ark, God probably would have destroyed all of humanity instead of finding another Noah

I agree with the statement, but not the reason. I would agree that God doesn't have backup plans. But not to the point that if those plans fail, then things don't happen the way that God wants them to. To say that would suggest 1) that God is a poor planner and ill prepared for eventualities, 2) that God is not omniscient and doesn't know what will happen and how people will react, and 3) that God is not omnipotent to be in control of everything. If you know God in the least bit, you would know that none of that is true about God.

Instead, the reason God does not have backup plans is because he doesn't need them. He doesn't need them because 1) God plans just enough to bring out his will, 2) God is omniscient and knows beforehand how people will respond and who will follow his will to help carry out his plans, and 3) God is omnipotent with the power to bring all his plans to success regardless of how people react.

- God can be indifferent if you do not obey Him

If by "indifferent" you mean that God doesn't care whether you obey him or not, I disagree. God cares. God cares a lot. If he didn't he would have destroyed this planet a long time ago and wouldn't have send his Son to try and save all humanity.

- God doesn't always give second chances

I'm going to get into semantics here and disagree. I would say that God does give second chances, but that we may not recognize them. Yes, many times, our mistakes can have life-changing consequences, and eventually it can reach a point of miss opportunities, or hurting yourself, or even ending in your life. But despite all the sin we commit, God keeps trying to reconcile us to himself. As a matter of fact, you can even view his plan of salvation through Christ a second chance for all humanity.

 

[RC1262]

Christianity to me use to mean accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, reading your Bible, going to Church, praying, and avoiding sin. Through great tragedy (unfortunately) I have discovered that this is false and dangerously inaccurate.

Christianity, I now know, is accepting Christ as Lord and Savior and then commiting your life to Him, which means following Him. And to follow Him, it appears that you must KNOW Him. And knowing Him takes time spent with Him.

There are many things about Christ that are not found in the Bible, and you might be surprised (for example) at some of the things He might say or do in YOUR life.

When people say you must have a personal relationship, it is SO true! This is especially true if you happen to be one of the people God calls into ministry (note, I did not say people who chose to go into ministry, but the ones God CALLS).

In this personal relationship I would suggest to any Christian who wishes to remain alive in Christ that they learn directly from Christ and from Him only.

Christians and people say a ton of inaccurate non-sense and (more importantly), they ultimately can do nothing for you.

A few things I have learned from the relationship I USE to have with God:
- If, as a Christian, you are religious...stop it! You might be saved but you had BETTER get a FIRM grasp on what GRACE means soon or your are asking for all kinds of problems in you walk with the Lord
- God can give YOUNG people (age 25 and under) great responsiblilities too, and He doesn't take lightly to immaturity
- If you are a loner and you are saved, God will probably consider you selfish
- God has favorites (ie: John was the disciple Jesus loved)
- God has a sense of humor (awkward as it may be)
- God can say things that, if a person said them we would consider it rude (ie: God can be sarcastic)
- God can be demanding when He REALLY wants something
- God can manipulate people to have favor or lose favor with you apart from your own actions.
- God loves you but He doesn't always talk like it
- God laughs at you if you try to make things work on your own
- God will let you fall and even die if you get arrogant or proud
- God doesn't always help you in ways that you would like Him to
- God doesn't like excuses
- God uses Christians to reach non-Christians. And if Christians do not do what He calls them to, others can get hurt.
- God does not always have backup plans. Case in point, if Noah did not build the Ark, God probably would have destroyed all of humanity instead of finding another Noah
- God can act slowly OR quickly when He wants to.
- God wants you to bring Christ GLORY NOT SHAME! Which means you must be wary of how you appear to others
- God can hold you responsible for the lives of others
- Whenever God is strongly at work in your life, you can BET your last penny Satan will be right there working against you even stronger (though not more powerful if you don't let him)
- God is an "I told you so" BIG TIME!
- God can be indifferent if you do not obey Him
- God WILL judge mistakes!
- God doesn't always give second chances

and finally,

- God does not remove obstacles often, but expects you to call on Him for aid when you face them.

Whether you believe these things or not, they are ALL TRUE! And if God has not (yet) behaved this way in your life be thankful. But just note, the closer you get to God, the more He expects out of you, and the more you WILL see these attributes of God (potentially) Of course I am only addressing Holy Spirit filled Christians here.

I mostly disagree because I find most of them far too cynical to be an accurate picture of God, and, in my humble opinion, dangerously close to being unbiblical on a few points. That said, I do agree with a few of your points, albiet possibly in different understandings.

If you think all that about God's voice, then I question if it really were Him that you heard [presumably that still-small voice in your head] or whether or not it was just your own voice [in your head] or Satan's [in your head]...

 

[sunlover1]

Stay Salty,
And what a super screenname!

Your post was such a blessing to me, and a very refreshing read.

I bet you have much wisdom to share with us, and I am all eyes!

And this one from Cool Water (another very cool screenname!)

When God speaks, you can bet there is always purpose, regardless of how insignificant it might seem.

Very important stuff.

Even if God is just telling you to check a lightbulb or whatever, DO it. there's a very good reason!


Nice to meet you both,
sunlover

 

[prophecy4]

Christians and people say a ton of inaccurate non-sense and (more importantly), they ultimately can do nothing for you.

that is extremely true to a point... most christians are just mindless robots who repeat what they are told... not what they know to be true through study of scripture...

- God has favorites (ie: John was the disciple Jesus loved)

you forgot about Israel (the nation)... but yeah, He does... but He has His reasons...

- God has a sense of humor (awkward as it may be)

i agree... God says some hilarious stuff in the Bible...

- God can say things that, if a person said them we would consider it rude (ie: God can be sarcastic)

lol... this is sooooo true... God got mad and said the most sarcastic thing.... but it is funny to me every time i read it... it's a funny type rude... actually read most of Isaiah and some of Jeremiah...

- God will let you fall and even die if you get arrogant or proud

you are instructed to be humble...

- God doesn't always help you in ways that you would like Him to

usually... the way you want Him to help... isn't help at all...

- God does not always have backup plans. Case in point, if Noah did not build the Ark, God probably would have destroyed all of humanity instead of finding another Noah

that's an assumption... Noah said yes, so we don't know what the backup plan was... Since God already knew... He didn't need a plan B

- God can act slowly OR quickly when He wants to.

it's all about timing... lol...

- God doesn't always give second chances

not true at all... we get chances we probably don't even recornize...

- God does not remove obstacles often, but expects you to call on Him for aid when you face them.

we wouldn't learn if He removed every obstacle...

 

[StaySalty]

So what's the definition of Grace? What should I do in my life to make me a good, God serving Christian? U must know the answers since u brought this up, That's why I am going to ask u. Daily/Monthly Routine might help. Thank You ahead of time!!!
And Peace be with you all!!!

One simple yet some what helpful definition of grace is "God's Riches at Christ Expense"

Notice in this definition that there is nothing mentioned about YOU or YOU being "good". I should caution you when you say "good God serving Christian" as that way of thinking can lead you to trouble.

Let's start at the beginning. Ever since Adam sinned, NO HUMAN BEING CAN BE DESCRIBED AS GOOD! (excluding Christ of course). We are not "good", we are sinful and in need of a Savior. We often like to compare ourselves one against the other to say "I'm better than this person because I don't steal. Or, I'm more moral than that person because I don't cheat on my spouse." etc.

This, however is NOT how God sees us at all. Sure, a murderer might suffer worse consequences and a habitual "white" lier, however in God's eyes they are both LAW-BREAKERS!!

In fact, I would go so far as to say that every human being ever made (except Christ, who isn't really "made") is a LAW-BREAKER.

Law-breakers, according to God, deserve DEATH. There really is no other option. Sin must be paid for, and the price to be paid is death.

Out of love and to give us a chance, God decided to take out this punishment on His perfect Son Jesus Christ.

Note: He did NOT do this because:
- you were good
- you deserved it
- you earned it
- you have a nice personality
- you serve Him
- you goto church
- you work really hard to avoid sin
- you have a cool hair cut and dress nicely
- etc.

He did this because He loves you. THAT IT! No other reason!!! So, "GRACE" is God giving you something that you DO NOT DESERVE because He loves you.

So, it's like God gives us a gift (and a pardon) just because He loves us. So what do you do when you are offered a gift?

1. you have to realize and believe that you are receiving a gift.
2. you have to accept the gift
3. you are thankful for the gift
4. you love God and the gift He has given you
5. you recognize that without the gift you are hopeless
6. you realize that without the gift OTHERS are hopeless as well
7. you share knowledge of the gift with others (as God directs) so they can enjoy the gift just like you

This gift is your relationship with Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (which makes you righteous in God's eyes) .

The danger in religious thinking is that it can cloud this understanding that you have been given a gift, and rather than leaning on the love God has for you, you'll start thinking your earning points with God through your own actions (prayer, church, bible study)

You can also become arrogant, such that rather than viewing non-christians as people who simply need to accept God's gift, you'll see them as more "sinful" than yourself and a group to avoid.

For example, you might think yourself "better" than an active gay person since you are straight, married and "Christian". So, rather than seeing that they, just as you once were, are lawbreakers in need of God's gift, you see them as disgusting sinful sinners who are to be avoided at all cost.

Religious thinking "puffs" up, casts judgements, and creates a FALSE since of security which God NEVER INTENDED.

A solid understanding of Grace moves you towards loving God more and more (the 1st greatest commandment) and loving you fellow man more and more (the 2nd greatest commandment). See Matthew 22:36-40

A few other notes:

Grace thinking is inclinded to pray for others for their benefit.
Religious thinking avoids others for "your" benefit

Grace thinking LOVES the sinner but hates the sin
Religious thinking dislikes people who sin

Grace thinking is thankful to God for His mercy/grace
Religious thinking is thankful to self for being "good" before God

Grace thinking LOVES Christ
Religious thinking is clouded from fully loving Christ

Grace thinking is joyous and loving
Religious thinking is strict and intolerant

Grace thinking wants to know God more
Religous thinking wants to follow rules (and can remain static)

Grace thinking pleases God
Religous thinking annoys/angers Him


With Grace thinking, you understand that you don't know everything, and you are seeking to have a good relationship with your Lord. You should want to know more about the Lord who saved you. Do you speak to Him? When He speaks to you, do you realize it? Do you listen? What does God sound like to you? What does He want from you PERSONALLY, what is His personal plan for you? Don't ask others "will God do this or that", why not ask Him? Remember, you are in RELATIONSHIP with God, and it's going to be a difficult relationship if you don't put forth the effort or have the heart to GET TO KNOW WHO IT IS THAT YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH. You avoid sin because you don't want to hurt your God or shame Him. You do your best in your work because you want to please Him. You ask Him what He wants of you and you carry it out because you love Him. What kind of a relationship would you have with your spouse if you didn't really KNOW them? Same thing here.

Religous thinking just seeks to follow rules and expects that God is happy with that. NO! God wants you to KNOW Him and LOVE Him. He already knows and loves you, don't give Him the cold shoulder.

I hope this helps.

 

[StaySalty]

You are right on... and I'd like to add two more.

As soon as you get comfortable intertpreting God one way, he changes it up, leaving you utterly confused.

and

When God speaks, you can bet there is always purpose, regardless of how insignificant it might seem.

Excellent! Thanks for adding these