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KJV Only?

Are You KJV Only?

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LostMarbels

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I know I'm a little long winded but I really do hope you see there is a very real attack on Christianity as whole, not just the bible. Who, as a Christian does not know that the world and God are at eminity?
 
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LostMarbels

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KJV-Onlyist is a heresy and one of the worst kind.

Please state your argument and site references.

Can you provide me with why you view it as heresay?

What substantiates your view?

Or is it a matter of opinion?
 
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Avid

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sorry...for a while, I was the only one here supporting KJB only, was being character assasinated by serveral at the same time who were using bullying tactics rather than reasonalbe civil discourse. I was on the touchy side when I misread your intent. I sure was glad to see some others like myself in faith show up on the scene. Keep up the good work, excellent posts showing the histories of philosophies and how they are attached to believing or not believing God.
In the context of the whole thread, there are number of people making good arguments you should read. Some are from the view of Textual Criticism while mine are more the personal use as being Familiar, Clear, Precise, and accompanied by God's Holy Spirit.

The list of 200 verses is what convinced me and a few others I know of. One fellow on a different forum website was skeptical till reading the list, and comparing the versions. Clearly changed his mind.

Someone questioned your use of many smaller posts, and I just gave a few reasons why you would and should do that. I was cautious to make this about the scripture, the use of posts, and NOT personal.
 
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Avid

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... Can you provide me with why you view it as heresay?

What substantiates your view?

Or is it a matter of opinion?
If ALL KJV Only people stopped immediately, acknowledged they were WRONG, and that the NIV was the version that is the only right one to use, essentially all the ones arguing against KJV Only would argue against NIV Only. It is the idea that God gave us His word, and we can trust it to be true that is the greatest bother to them. They do not like any standard that holds them to a strict idea of God's attitude toward men.
 
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Avid

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... I've read Shakespeare and the KJV is very "user friendly" in comparison. You'd be surprised just how much you can get out of reading without doubting ...
This is the proof I sought. I read it, believed it, and God worked in my heart, unlike with any other words I read. I consider it a foundation, and we should be careful not to destroy our foundation!
 
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tall73

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What? Come on folks, this is ridiculous on both sides.

If you are going to say KJV only is a heresy, then at least get into the details.

If you are going to discuss why you think the KJV is the true word of God in English, then debate the merits, but don't assume the other side just doesn't want to have a standard of God's word.

Certainly there can be a better conversation than this.
 
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Avid

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sorry...for a while, I was the only one here supporting KJB only...
We each need to be there to do what God would lead for the time he put us there!
Ezekiel 22
30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Let us not fail the LORD when He sends us to a purpose.
 
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tall73

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Could some KJV only person do what they seemed reluctant to do earlier and explain why the TR is better than the majority text?

I can see the argument for the majority text over the critical text in some respects. I am just not sure why the TR would be superior to the majority.
 
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LostMarbels

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If ALL KJV Only people stopped immediately, acknowledged they were WRONG, and that the NIV was the version that is the only right one to use, essentially all the ones arguing against KJV Only would argue against NIV Only. It is the idea that God gave us His word, and we can trust it to be true that is the greatest bother to them. They do not like any standard that holds them to a strict idea of God's attitude toward men.
I do not agree with this.

You would first have to change my fundamental beliefs that:

1. The word of God is from the beginning, and was with God at creation.

2. Jesus is the word of God made flesh that dwelt amongst man.

3. The word of God is an immutable fact, and is unchanging.

You see... to me the word of God is more than a Bible. It is part of my God, and it is our Christ in the flesh. I confess that Jesus is the one and only true God, and he is the word of God manifest in the flesh. So since Jesus is the only way, there can only be one word of God. Only one version has remained unchanged.

There are so many parallels to my belief. We see in James that there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning in God. So with the word of God being part of God and Jesus being the physical manifestation of the word; Gods word is also without variableness, neither shadow of turning.

So those who have changed, altered, or have strayed from the origins are not from God. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 1 change, changes it all.
 
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Avid

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I do not agree with this.

You would first have to change my fundamental beliefs that:

1. The word of God is from the beginning, and was with God at creation.

2. Jesus is the word of God made flesh that dwelt amongst man.

3. The word of God is an immutable fact, and is unchanging.

You see... to me the word of God is more than a Bible. It is part of my God, and it is our Christ in the flesh. I confess that Jesus is the one and only true God, and he is the word of God manifest in the flesh. So since Jesus is the only way, there can only be one word of God. Only one version has remained unchanged.

There are so many parallels to my belief. We see in James that there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning in God. So with the word of God being part of God and Jesus being the physical manifestation of the word; Gods word is also without variableness, neither shadow of turning.

So those who have changed, altered, or have strayed from the origins are not from God. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 1 change, changes it all.
This is how I felt when I first heard it suggested, but the point is (you will see it if you look deeply) that the bulk of the people arguing against the KJV will argue against ANY version that someone claims is the only good and right version.
 
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SaintJoeNow

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Thank you for clarifying your position. If I may, a couple of follow-up points.

Was God's word preserved in the portions of the Tyndale Bible that were completed?

Though inferior in some ways was God's word preserved in the Bishop's Bible?

And perhaps the one I am most interested in, could God's word be preserved in a New English Translation that worked from the same manuscripts as the KJV, but sought to update some of the archaic terms, in your view?


There can only be one version, verbatim, word for word unchangeable of the Word of God in English or there is NO Word of God in English. If you go making a New English Translation (and I believe their is a modern version by that title), then you are saying the Word of God is uncertain and subject to your own preference of choice of words. The King James Bible replaced all former versions and has never been replaced and never will be. It is the Word of God in English.

The King James Bible was commissioned by King James to once and for all make translation of the highest standard by the best scholars who could be assembled for the task. I have not been able to find a list a variances in the Bishop's Bible, but the Geneva Bible has many differences which were ruled out by the King James Authorized translation.

The Bishop's Bible and the Geneva Bible both followed the Textus Receptus. I really don't know if the Bishop's Bible differed with the King James Bible. If it did not, then it was the Word of God in English. I know the Geneva Bible had many big differences. Both of them were either replaced and/or corrected by the King James Bible.

There can't be more than one version of the Word of God. Incorrect versions had to be corrected or layed aside. This is what the King James Authorized Version did.

My Bible gives definitioins in thesaurus fashion of uncommon words, but it does not change them. If you go changing words, you are changing meanings. Different words ephasize different meanings. Try to understand God according to His Word, not change His Word to make Him easier to understand. Changing His Word will only distory His character and exalt your own feelings of superior intellect and that is pride.

Copyright laws demand a certain number of substantial changes from the derived source before a new edition can be copyrighted. Because of this, all modern versions while claiming to be updated language make changes that cause them to be read at a higher grade level than the King james Bible. It's better to leave the difficult words as they are and try to understand why God chose them. Context of God's Word is more important and not to be meddled with my changing words.

Research the old words, don't change them. There is nothing wrong with trying to explain meanings, but when you go changing the Word of God and saying we don't have it accurately preserved, then there is a problem which goes back to Genisis 3 when the serpent said to Eve, "Yea, hath God said..."...There is no need for a new translation. There will never be a translation used by God as the King James Bible has been, and there will never be a translation as hated as the King James Bible has been and is today.

The King James Bible put to rest the competition between different prior versions, Any new translation must be rejeceted before it is made. We have the Word of God in our language today, there is no need for another translation.


Thank you for asking honest questions and allowing for honest answers. I do not mean to be harsh with opponents, but the issue here is faith vx. pride....either we believe God desired for us to have His Word today without error, or we think we have to make it up for ourselves to suit ourselves, of course based on our own intellectual persuits and preferences which may be backed by all kinds of college degrees. This is intellectual pride and the Bible is against it. We have to let the Word of God speak against the self-deceiving, self-exalting, self-glorifying, and self-satisfying nature of our pride with is the seat of our sin nature.

People who cannot listen to this angle respectfully and cannot voice disagreement without insulting obviously are blinded by their own pride.
I have personally known several Godly men, with fruitful ministries of many souls saved and many lives changed in wonderful if not completely miraculous ways, who did not hold to the inerrant translation of the Word of God into English preserved in the King James Bible. These men would not stand around an argue about it and I respected them highly. They simply did not understand the controversy of the new versions and because God's hand was obviously in thier ministries, I did not feel compelled to make an issue with them. They held to all fundamental Biblical doctrines in full agreement with me, and i'm sure they would have burned their modern versions if they understood the history of them and saw how they changed key passages and doctrines. Men like Charles Stanley and J. Vernon McGhee with his "a better translation would be" simply made a mistake and would do better to say.."his can be understood as" and explain the passage rather than to question the preservation of the Word of God in English......but I'm sure not going to pick a fight with a godly man like Charles Stanley over the issue. As long as they hold to the solid doctrines of the Bible, I'll give them a pass. But people who come on here to fight agaisnt the King James Bible are making a mistake. If they have a ministry, they should humbly be focusing on it, and not focusiing on discrediting the Word of God..
 
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LostMarbels

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This is how I felt when I first hear it suggested, but the point (you will see it if you look deeply) is that the bulk of the people arguing against the KJV will argue against ANY version that someone claims is the only good and right version.

There is only one God. There is only one word of God.

Stands to reason that there is only one correct version.
 
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LostMarbels

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There can only be one version, verbatim, word for word unchangeable of the Word of God in English or there is NO Word of God in English. If you go making a New English Translation (and I believe their is a modern version by that title), then you are saying the Word of God is uncertain and subject to your own preference of choice of words. The King James Bible replaced all former versions and has never been replaced and never will be. It is the Word of God in English.

The King James Bible was commissioned by King James to once and for all make translation of the highest standard by the best scholars who could be assembled for the task. I have not been able to find a list a variances in the Bishop's Bible, but the Geneva Bible has many differences which were ruled out by the King James Authorized translation.

The Bishop's Bible and the Geneva Bible both followed the Textus Receptus. I really don't know if the Bishop's Bible differed with the King James Bible. If it did not, then it was the Word of God in English. I know the Geneva Bible had many big differences. Both of them were either replaced and/or corrected by the King James Bible.

There can't be more than one version of the Word of God. Incorrect versions had to be corrected or layed aside. This is what the King James Authorized Version did.

My Bible gives definitioins in thesaurus fashion of uncommon words, but it does not change them. If you go changing words, you are changing meanings. Different words ephasize different meanings. Try to understand God according to His Word, not change His Word to make Him easier to understand. Changing His Word will only distory His character and exalt your own feelings of superior intellect and that is pride.

Copyright laws demand a certain number of substantial changes from the derived source before a new edition can be copyrighted. Because of this, all modern versions while claiming to be updated language make changes that cause them to be read at a higher grade level than the King james Bible. It's better to leave the difficult words as they are and try to understand why God chose them. Context of God's Word is more important and not to be meddled with my changing words.

Research the old words, don't change them. There is nothing wrong with trying to explain meanings, but when you go changing the Word of God and saying we don't have it accurately preserved, then there is a problem which goes back to Genisis 3 when the serpent said to Eve, "Yea, hath God said..."...There is no need for a new translation. There will never be a translation used by God as the King James Bible has been, and there will never be a translation as hated as the King James Bible has been and is today.

The King James Bible put to rest the competition between different prior versions, Any new translation must be rejeceted before it is made. We have the Word of God in our language today, there is no need for another translation.


Thank you for asking honest questions and allowing for honest answers. I do not mean to be harsh with opponents, but the issue here is faith vx. pride....either we believe God desired for us to have His Word today without error, or we think we have to make it up for ourselves to suit ourselves, of course based on our own intellectual persuits and preferences which may be backed by all kinds of college degrees. This is intellectual pride and the Bible is against it. We have to let the Word of God speak against the self-deceiving, self-exalting, self-glorifying, and self-satisfying nature of our pride with is the seat of our sin nature.

People who cannot listen to this angle respectfully and cannot voice disagreement without insulting obviously are blinded by their own pride.
I have personally known several Godly men, with fruitful ministries of many souls saved and many lives changed in wonderful if not completely miraculous ways, who did not hold to the inerrant translation of the Word of God into English preserved in the King James Bible. These men would not stand around an argue about it and I respected them highly. They simply did not understand the controversy of the new versions and because God's hand was obviously in thier ministries, I did not feel compelled to make an issue with them. They held to all fundamental Biblical doctrines in full agreement with me, and i'm sure they would have burned their modern versions if they understood the history of them and saw how they changed key passages and doctrines. Men like Charles Stanley and J. Vernon McGhee with his "a better translation would be" simply made a mistake and would do better to say.."his can be understood as" and explain the passage rather than to question the preservation of the Word of God in English......but I'm sure not going to pick a fight with a godly man like Charles Stanley over the issue. As long as they hold to the solid doctrines of the Bible, I'll give them a pass. But people who come on here to fight agaisnt the King James Bible are making a mistake. If they have a ministry, they should humbly be focusing on it, and not focusiing on discrediting the Word of God..

Nice post
 
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SaintJoeNow

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What? Come on folks, this is ridiculous on both sides.

If you are going to say KJV only is a heresy, then at least get into the details.

If you are going to discuss why you think the KJV is the true word of God in English, then debate the merits, but don't assume the other side just doesn't want to have a standard of God's word.

Certainly there can be a better conversation than this.[/quote


The other side wants to make up the Word of God as they go along. The supports for the King James Bible as the only English translation of the Word of God today are quite scholarly in this tread, more scholarly than I care for myself but very well supported and argued. The other side ignores the arguments which support the King James Bible, ignores the history of the martyrs who gave their lives to get the Bible accurately translated into English.

There cannot be a better conversation when one side ignores and will not listen to the other. Those who support the King James Bible have studied both sides of the issue..at least I have and I believe most of not all here have. I have read opposing posts and when it is obvious that they will not investigate history of the Bible and history of manuscript families but they will only insist they have the Holy Ghost guiding them into truth so they can make the best guess at the lost Word of God, I just put them on ignore. The other side makes references to textual criticisms which ignores the history of the texts. If they do adhere to the majority texts, they insist changes in the King James Bible are needed so they are ignoring what the Bible says about the Word of God being preserved without error.

There can only be one true version of God's Word in one language. The correct English translation of the Word of God is the King James Bible. The conversation is not going to be good when people want to elevate thier own intellects as the Holy Spirit guided translators for themselves and for whoever else will admire or pay them for their work. That's why people get mad when they attack the King James Bible and then you tell them they are wrong for doing so...they want recognition for thier intellect and when they are casting doubt on the veracity of God's Word, they don't deserve recognition for their "intellectual persuits" because they have gone into deviance against God.
 
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LostMarbels

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The King James says 'bishop'. So how can 'overseer' be wrong as a translation for EPISKOPOS, just because the King James says 'bishop'?

Lots of similar examples could be given. Similar things could be said for translations in other languages.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Joh 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It is very easy to see that Gods word is, and always will be unchanged. If it has been edited, or changed in any way, it is not God's word.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Joh 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It is very easy to see that Gods word is, and always will be unchanged. If it has been edited, or changed in any way, it is not God's word.
In other words, you think that an EPISKOPOS is a guy with a funny hat who holds a crook and is the boss in a church, rather than someone who oversees? just because the King James says so?

The Scriptures that you quote are great, but the conclusions you suggest are not logical.
 
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