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KJV Only?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Daniel1611, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. brixken7

    brixken7 Newbie

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    .............................

    Jack...your above post is in response to the post of Charles at Doctrineprimer, in which he stated:

    "When reading any translation, one must do a proper and careful study of the Word of God in order to understand the passages he or she is reading. Doctrine comes from the original languages and never from a translation. So, if one wants to study the Word of God, it is a good idea to pull in many resources to help aid one's understanding and correct any misconceptions and possible errors caused by the translation itself."

    Now when he stated that
    "Doctrine comes from the original languages and never from a translation," I think he was saying that the ORIGIN of doctrine is in the original languages, which is, of course, quite true. But what I LOVE about his post is that he so rightly states...

    " it is a good idea to pull in many resources to help aid one's understanding...."

    Indeed, this is very true, and his words have the repeated backing of God's Word, for we read that
    "in the multitude of counselors there is safety" (Proverbs 11:14; 15:22; 24:6).

    Without the aid of various translations --- and particularly the original Greek --- it can be very difficult, perhaps even impossible to establish proper doctrine. The KJV, for example, teaches an "eternal" (aionios) punishment, which causes the Bible to repeatedly contradict itself. It takes an objective and thorough study into the Greek word "aionios" and its usage to resolve the matter. But this is seldom done, which helps to explain all the confusion regarding what God's Word actually teaches. We all need to...

    "[FONT=&quot]Let the Scriptures Determine Our Theology, and Not Read Our Theology into Scripture."

    --brixken7
    ..................[/FONT]

     
  2. Jack Koons

    Jack Koons Guest

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    If I may be so kind as to say that you have a misunderstanding of the use of the word Hell in the Bible.

    Jack
     
  3. brixken7

    brixken7 Newbie

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    "If I may be so kind as to say that you have a misunderstanding of the use of the word Hell in the Bible."

    "Jack"
    ...........................

    Jack...I was not talking about the word "hell."
    That is a word neither used by me in my post, or by the biblical writers.
    And therefore, in my opinion, it's a waste of our time to discuss it.

    -- brixken7
    ...............
    .
     
  4. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

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    The value is NOT in the Number of sources you have, but in all cases, the validity of ANY source you utilize.

    Maybe you can show the contradictions you accuse of being in the KJV about Eternal Punishment.


    There are many good works based in the truth of the scriptures that teach this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  5. Jack Koons

    Jack Koons Guest

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    I am fully aware that you did not use the word"hell", but since that is the English translation of the Greek "γεεννα" which Jesus used in describing "eternal punishment", I thought it would be safe to cut to the chase and address what Jesus said, in the context in which it was said.

    Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    Please don't tell me that the "damnation of hell" is to be burned in the Valley of Hinnom after death. There have been many Christians cremated after death. I don't think the location of the fire would matter. My point is that the only thing the fire in the Valley of Hinnom can affect is the body. Hence, Jesus was referring to γεεννα in typology to the literal fires of both αδης and γεεννε, the former being the temporary punishment until judgement; the latter being the eternal punishment in outer darkness, after the Great White Throne Judgement.

    Jack
     
  6. James Is Back

    James Is Back CF's Official Locksmith

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    Folks this is a discussion of KJV Only not about hell. Please get back on the topic at hand.
     
  7. brixken7

    brixken7 Newbie

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    Yes, I would agree that the term "Gehenna" as used by Christ represented the Lake of Fire of Revelation 20. However, it is also termed "the second death" (Revelation 20:14) --- and the "outer darkness" you spoke of likewise represents death (I know this from my personal study). But right after the Lake of Fire of Revelation 20, we read that death will be "no more" (21:4) having been "destroyed" (I Corinthians 15:26). At this point we read that God is making "all new." :clap:

    --- brixken7
     
  8. brixken7

    brixken7 Newbie

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    "Maybe you can show the contradictions you accuse of being in the KJV about Eternal Punishment."
    ..................

    Sure can.
    -- brixken7

     
  9. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

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    Thank you. Will do. The other could be a new Thread for those interested in continuing.
     
  10. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    It was the entire chapter of Isaiah 53.

    You obviously need to understand the meaning of a Lexical Gap.

    In the passage compaired the context was not changed.

    I am not going to banter over who's bible is best,or inspired.

    One day we will all stand before God, and be accountable for every word.
     
  11. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Good point,if we take the time to compare verses side by side,in some translations the omitted verses and changes zero in on the divinity of Christ.

    It's not a debate on how good the translations are,it is a question of motives.
     
  12. bushinoki

    bushinoki Servant of the Most High

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    People, after some of the arguments I've seen here, I've now moved into a position entirely against keeping a 1611 English Bible for anything other than classical literature. We could talk about the Greek and Hebrew words and Romanizations all day, but riddle me this: Who has actually studied late middle/early modern English? Half the disputes are over the usages of four hundred years ago, when implication and meaning HAVE CHANGED over four hundred years. For our understanding, the KJV (To exlcude the NKJV) is outdated and might as well have been written in another language as well as some people truly understand that. Have I emphasized this point enough?
     
  13. VCViking

    VCViking Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel...

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    Classic!
     
  14. cardoctor

    cardoctor Guest

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    KJV is a wonderful translation and there is not a thing wrong with preferring to use it however It states no where in the bible that an English version would one day arrive that wold be perfect as the words from the mouth of God were perfect.

    A true reading of God's word demands the respect and diligence of close translation and inspection of his actual words. This certainly is not always practical especially for impromptu discussion of the word.
     
  15. bushinoki

    bushinoki Servant of the Most High

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    cardoctor, if people will agree to study English as it was spoken 400 years ago before they nitpick, I'll shut up. But I'm watching people nitpick about words in the Greek, and how they would be translated TODAY, versus how they would be translated by English speakers, from England, 400 years ago. You might think the differences are little, but enough of those little differences, and there are plenty of them, can lead to serious doctrinal error due to mistranslation.
     
  16. cardoctor

    cardoctor Guest

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    I'm right there with you! There is a lot to be learned from 17th and 18th century language. My poster child of this is the splitting of the word "love" and "charity". These words were once synonymous but over centuries they split or describe warm fuzzy feelings and selfless action respectively. definitions that distort the commandment "Love thy neighbor"

    However where you and I decent looks to be the order. Why would you recommend studying old English BEFORE studying the original languages of the bible?

    In the event that a christian has the time and resources to only study one what makes you recommend old English and not the language closer to the literal words christ spoke. Please understand i'm not trying to refute you in this post, I've heard a number of KJV onliests express that veiw and i'm hoping to learn why.

    My outlook which is certainly open to correction:

    Language is also the study of the culture in which it was spoken. AKA when Naiomi instructed Ruth to "uncover boaz's feet" that was an idiom that meant... helping him park.... This totally changed the story of Ruth! Similarly the term "clear of eye" was a common idiom for being generous. So the parable of the workers changes...

    Learning the old English will show you what was meant but the translations from that period's language. This greatly adds to the understanding of the text. I think we can agree that KJV it is A correct literal translation of the original. The better you understand the culture of the time of translation the deeper the text gets.

    However languages do not always have exact equivalents of each word and rarely have a translation of the inferences those words carry even in languages contemporary to one another.

    In learning the original language you are suddenly privy to the inferences, the degree of intensity or the formality of the words spoken. Not only does this communicate the message of the passage read but also communicates emphasis, intent even the recipient. Learning the original language also shares all the benefits of learning the old English. The deepening of the text and all that was mentioned above.

    Do you agree with all of this? do you have any points that invalidate my appraisal here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2015
  17. Nord Christian

    Nord Christian Newbie

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    I find Pastor Steve to be a very thoughtful preacher. He doesn't hold anything back. I think he's very passionate and sincere about what he preaches. I'd watched a good number of sermons of him on YT, and agreed with a lot that he had preached. He's a KJV Bible only preacher.

    Just watched a documentary on his YT channel, about the NWO versions of the Bible. The corrupt elite have also made and twisted God's word, to make these newer versions of the Bible, like the NIV.

    There were so many words and passages taken out of the newer versions. A lot of words had been omitted from the Bible as well. Very insightful and eye opening documentary.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  18. kiwimac

    kiwimac Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian Supporter

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    That is KJV-Only rot.
     
  19. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    I love the King James and use it, but I'm not King James Only.
     
  20. yesyoushould

    yesyoushould Member

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    Nothing wrong with the KJV.
     
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