KIND = GENUS

Gene2memE · Jul 20, 2020

Philip Bruce Heywood said:
G-M. Thanks for an intelligent response. Change in allele frequency over time within a population, primarily via hereditary mechanisms, with selection and conservation resulting from situational and environmental factors.
I attempt to know something about geology -- probably not much! -- and if you know something about biology -- I am desirous of being advized. Here is a statement lifted direct from my educational site and book(as I recall). You might consider the implications and to save downloading umpteen kilobytes, perhaps if you wished go to the site (Creationtheory dot com) and see if you can improve it. The front page will give a link to speciation and also to various theories.
How did new species arise?
The answer to this question must meet the following requirements:
1. Explains adaption of new species to environment.
2. Explains how new species can arise without being the genetic offspring
of an old species.
3. Explains how species are functional units built from discrete packages of information (the platypus, for example, is obviously the outcome of a selective process acting on a finite number of discrete packages of information -- those discrete packages of information also being available to birds, mammals and reptiles.)

What clues have we been given?......... .

The warning at the outset is the same as that given to Darwin & co. by the top scientists of those times and by almost everyone else to boot: this item: 2. Explains how new species can arise without being the genetic offspring of an old species.

You're working off faulty assumptions here.

New species are the genetic offspring of their parents. Here's a neat analogy:

Philip Bruce Heywood said:
Immediately we face the question: species were obviously transformed (DNA, immune system, the lot) at specific times in the geologic past.

Well, yes and no.

There are periods of rapid morphological diversity and trophic novelty. There are a relatively common feature in the fossil record, known as radiations. As you've already alluded to, the Cambrian Explosion is one such, and the diversification of flowering plants (angiosperms) is another.

However, the Cambrian event still took a minimum of 15 to 18 million years. And the diversification of angiosperms took about 50 million years

Philip Bruce Heywood said:
Speciation. Yet it is an unavoidable fact that species about us are 'locked'.

Nope. Species aren't locked. Both the fossil record and studies in the last 50 years show that this isn't the case.

Philip Bruce Heywood said:
To go to the most obvious proof: We don't interbreed with chimps. Chimps are chimps, humans are humans. End of story. Almost identical DNA, no way they are going to give birth to us nor we to them. Likewise, throughout the biosphere, although not always as clear cut. To define Evolution, one is obliged to define the biophysics which can explain the observations.

However, we did interbreed with other homo sapiens sub species, Denisovans and Neanderthalas at the very least.

It's a common occurrence in evolutionary history - more so with plants than animals. So common that the term even has a name: Evolutionary admixture.

AV1611VET · Jul 20, 2020

Gene2memE said:
Here's a neat analogy:

Done on paper, with a computer, and no missing links.

Congratulations.

The real world isn't like that.

Gene2memE · Jul 20, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Done on paper, with a computer, and no missing links.

Congratulations.

The real world isn't like that.

I'm assuming you think you have a relevant point here?

Could you enlighten the rest of us?

Hans Blaster · Jul 20, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Done on paper, with a computer, and no missing links.

Congratulations.

The real world isn't like that.

Were you or any of your family or friends drastically different from you parents? Did anyone mistake you (or them) for a different species?

That's the point of the slow color shift analogy -- small changes accumulate over many generations.

AV1611VET · Jul 20, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
Were you or any of your family or friends drastically different from you parents? Did anyone mistake you (or them) for a different species?

That's the point of the slow color shift analogy -- small changes accumulate over many generations.

They're still colors.

Subduction Zone · Jul 20, 2020

AV1611VET said:
They're still colors.

Right, and you are still an ape. Once again AV supports the actual evolutionary argument.

Hans Blaster · Jul 20, 2020

Subduction Zone said:
Right, and you are still an ape. Once again AV supports the actual evolutionary argument.

It's not even so much that posters like AV won't accept evolution, it's that they either fail to comprehend the basics (either because they don't try enough or because the refuse to try) or pretend not to.

I know they have religious reasons to not accept evolution as true and that is their right, but I just wish they would try hard enough to understand what we are talking about if they are going to participate in this forum.

Subduction Zone · Jul 20, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
It's not even so much that posters like AV won't accept evolution, it's that they either fail to comprehend the basics (either because they don't try enough or because the refuse to try) or pretend not to.

I know they have religious reasons to not accept evolution as true and that is their right, but I just wish they would try hard enough to understand what we are talking about if they are going to participate in this forum.

I have a feeling that they realize that if they truly understood the basics of science and evolution they would accept it, and they cannot afford that.

AV1611VET · Jul 21, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
It's not even so much that posters like AV won't accept evolution, it's that they either fail to comprehend the basics (either because they don't try enough or because the refuse to try) or pretend not to.

I know they have religious reasons to not accept evolution as true and that is their right, but I just wish they would try hard enough to understand what we are talking about if they are going to participate in this forum.

Subduction Zone said:
I have a feeling that they realize that if they truly understood the basics of science and evolution they would accept it, and they cannot afford that.

Evolution is blasphemous:

1. Adam was not a mutant copy-error, made in the image and likeness of God.
2. A mutant copy-error did not die on the Cross to effect our salvation.

Subduction Zone · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Evolution is blasphemous:

1. Adam was not a mutant copy-error, made in the image and likeness of God.
2. A mutant copy-error did not die on the Cross to effect our salvation.

1. You have that backwards. Your interpretation of Genesis is blasphemous. Creationists are calling their Goerallyd a liar with their interpretation of a book that was not meant to be read literally if there is a Christian God.

2. .So now you are claiming that Jesus was not wholly human. Your self contradictions are quite amazing.

pitabread · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Evolution is blasphemous:

Meanwhile there are Christians that consider creationism blasphemous (e.g. a form of Bibliolatry).

I guess you'd better hope your blasphemy isn't worse than theirs.

pitabread · Jul 21, 2020

Subduction Zone said:
I have a feeling that they realize that if they truly understood the basics of science and evolution they would accept it, and they cannot afford that.

Hence why creationism is so screwed. The only way it survives is through ignorance.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:
They're still colors.

Indeed - Colour red has 'evolved' into Colour blue, a different 'species' of the 'genus' Colour.

AV1611VET · Jul 21, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Indeed - Colour red has 'evolved' into Colour blue, a different 'species' of the 'genus' Colour.

Indeed.

And the Panthera gave rise to the lion, tiger, leopard, and jaguar.

Hans Blaster · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Indeed.

And the Panthera gave rise to the lion, tiger, leopard, and jaguar.

So you *DO* understand the basics of evolution. (Yeah, I knew you did. My memory of your antics isn't *that* poor.) Stop pretending. It does you no credit. Call evolution blasphemy if you like, it's a free country and the owners of this site definitely won't stop you, but stop misrepresenting it. I think you guys call this "bearing false witness", it's one of the 11 commandments. I'm not sure which one. (Since I learned a different list than you probably did and some split the first one, and we split the last one, I figure why not split them both and have eleven. [It's one bigger than 10.] If I merged both first and last together to get 9, then you'd complain I was eliminating one.)

AV1611VET · Jul 21, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
I think you guys call this "bearing false witness",

Only if you live next door.

Exodus 30:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Subduction Zone · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:
Only if you live next door.

Exodus 30:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Ooh, being overly literalistic with the Ninth Commandment. Almost all Christians interpret that to mean your fellow man.

AV1611VET · Jul 21, 2020

Subduction Zone said:
Ooh, being overly literalistic with the Ninth Commandment. Almost all Christians interpret that to mean your fellow man.

Subduction Zone · Jul 21, 2020

AV1611VET said:

The Bible can be reinterpreted to say anything. The Bible also clearly portrays the Earth as flat in word and deed. Why don't you believe in a flat Earth?

AV1611VET · Jul 21, 2020

Subduction Zone said:
The Bible can be reinterpreted to say anything.

That It can.

Subduction Zone said:
The Bible also clearly portrays the Earth as flat in word and deed.

Thanks for the example.

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