Kerry Promotes Expanded Stem Cell Research

[theseed]

I never said they're not life. They are definitely alive. The difference is that embryos are not persons. A person feels pain and has emotions. Embryos don't.

There are many adults who don't feel pain an lack emotion, so we can experiment with them too? After all, there not people based on that definition.

 

[theseed]

Nope. Wrong, adult stem cells are not just as good as embryonic stem cells. That is scientifically false.

Prove it.

 

[theseed]

Definition of life? Hmmm. Do you eat meat? Did you ever dissect a frog or worm or something like that in school? Ever step on an ant?

Life is a beautiful thing... in any form. Do a bunch of cows really have any more choice in their fate than the Jewish victims of the Nazis? Was their lives any more valid?

I don't know how I feel about the stem cell research. I would want to see some results before I whole heartedly support it. But, life is life. If you're willing to eat a cow, that has feelings of pain, does your arguement of life really hold any validity?


Note: I am not a member of PETA and I do believe in the food chain.

The problem here is that you are equating human life with animal life.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

The problem here is that you are equating human life with animal life.

That might be a problem for you, but it's not a problem in my view. I treat all life with respect... animal and human.

 

[Ave Maria]

There are many adults who don't feel pain an lack emotion, so we can experiment with them too? After all, there not people based on that definition.

Um no. They aren't just a clump of cells like an embryo is.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

The comparison is valid. The Nazis were not restricted by the morality of human life when they did thier medical experiments.

You know, until someone goes out and takes 6 million people of a certain religion, tortures and torments them, perform all sorts of horrible experiments, gas chambers them, and does all of the other disgusting things that Nazis did, it is an unfair comparison. It's sickening that such a comparison would be made and it's sickening to think that it is valid.

 

[Ave Maria]

You know, until someone goes out and takes 6 million people of a certain religion, tortures and torments them, perform all sorts of horrible experiments, gas chambers them, and does all of the other disgusting things that Nazis did, it is an unfair comparison. It's sickening that such a comparison would be made and it's sickening to think that it is valid.

I totally agree Jacob!

 

[theseed]

Can someone help me with something else I can't figure out?

How can the Bush administration be against embryonic stem cell research, but be for invetro fertilization? Isn't this contradictory? Shouldn't there be a major push for banning invetro? I mean, if it is about saving the souls of babies...

What am I missing?

As I understand it, Bush has allowed research on embryoes that are no longer viable for implantation. These embryoes are "dead."

 

[theseed]

Do cows feel pain? To qoute Shylock "'if you prick us do we not bleed? if you tickle us do we not laugh? if you poison us do we not die? ... " The same is true for animals. Life is Life. It's hypocritical to say that all life is precious, don't use stem cells, pass me a Big Mac.

If you only value human life, how does that make you any different from the people who don't value the life of an embryo? Life is Life.

So, if you agree that human life and animal life are equal in value, then you must be in support of medical research on human adults without regard for thier life. We can force them the way we do animals--they can't refuse. After all they are equal.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

So, if you agree that human life and animal life are equal in value, then you must be in support of medical research on human adults without regard for thier life. We can force them the way we do animals--they can't refuse. After all they are equal.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't agree on medical research on animals or humans. You should learn something about a person before you start making claims on what they do and do not believe,

 

[theseed]

You know, until someone goes out and takes 6 million people of a certain religion, tortures and torments them, perform all sorts of horrible experiments, gas chambers them, and does all of the other disgusting things that Nazis did, it is an unfair comparison. It's sickening that such a comparison would be made and it's sickening to think that it is valid.

Yes it is sickening, and that is why I support right to human life whether it be a zygote or an adult.

 

[theseed]

BTW, the comparison is fair because it is valid because it is the same thing.

 

[theseed]

Um no. They aren't just a clump of cells like an embryo is.

Human adults are a clump of cells.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

BTW, the comparison is fair because it is valid because it is the same thing.

Please explain how people who support stem cell research are the same as nazis. And try to give a real arguement here.

 

[theseed]

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't agree on medical research on animals or humans. You should learn something about a person before you start making claims on what they do and do not believe,

Ok, then you are not in favor of stem cell research?

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

Ok, then you are not in favor of stem cell research?

Honestly, no I'm not.

I understand that my views are a little out there, because of the way I view animal and human life. I am American Indian and I was taught to believe that all life is sacred. I myself am a vegetarian, but not because I think it's wrong to eat animals. I believe in the food chain. But, I was taught that when an animal is killed, there should be respect for the life of the animal and every part should be used. As I don't believe that those who mass produce meat really respect the animal, I refuse to eat it.

I made the point about not being in PETA because I understand that people have different views. I don't expect anyone to become a vegetarian for the same reasons as me. I would never press my views like that one someone else.

Still, with MY understanding of life, it seems hypocritical to me to not support this but support the slaughter of animals. I understand fully that I am in the vast minority of people who would say this. Still I felt a need to express my opinion, but I admit that all it is is my opinion and that's it.

 

[No gods]

As I understand it, Bush has allowed research on embryoes that are no longer viable for implantation. These embryoes are "dead."

Your understanding is incorrect. Bush has "allowed" research using stem cell lines that had already been cultivated from embryos before the ban on cultivating stem cells from embryos.

Here's the main point - The process of IVF produces more embryos than can be implanted to help insure success of the IVF.

The left over embryos are THROWN AWAY!!!!! Inthe medical waste trash. Wouldn't it be better to use these discarded embryos to possible save another life than to just FLUSH IT DOWN THE TOILET? (they don't literally flush them, they discard them in the medical waste... probably to be incinerated along with all the other medical trash)

 

[theseed]

The left over embryos are THROWN AWAY!!!!! Inthe medical waste trash. Wouldn't it be better to use these discarded embryos to possible save another life than to just FLUSH IT DOWN THE TOILET? (they don't literally flush them, they discard them in the medical waste... probably to be incinerated along with all the other medical trash

I could ethically justify doing research on non viable embryos, but not on embryos that still have a chance at life. The people that use IVF probably are not bound by the ethics that embryros are human life. I am, and I don't favor IVF that produces extra embryos. Although expensive, I would not allow more than one IVF at a time.

 

[Ave Maria]

I could ethically justify doing research on non viable embryos, but not on embryos that still have a chance at life. The people that use IVF probably are not bound by the ethics that embryros are human life. I am, and I don't favor IVF that produces extra embryos. Although expensive, I would not allow more than one IVF at a time.

But the extra embryos are just going to be thrown away! Why not use them for research rather than them just get thrown away?!

 

[theseed]

But the extra embryos are just going to be thrown away! Why not use them for research rather than them just get thrown away?!

Did I hear an echo?