Keeping the Commandments

[Shulamite]

Many people assert that it is possible to keep God's commands prior to being born again. That it's possible to keep one's way clean before God and to do good with an ability we are born with.

Jesus made many remarks to those that opposed Him in His day. The Pharisees were very comfortable in their ability to keep the Law. Jesus warned them that unless our "righteousness surpassed that of the Pharisees we would not see the Kingdom of God."

The commandments were not given to us to keep. The commandments were given by God to show we cannot keep them. This puts "man" in a dilemma. Only 1 Person kept the Law: Jesus. In Him, we are the Righteousness of God, not apart from Him.

The commandments are not merely a law that we keep on the "outside" (physically) but a law that must be kept inwardly as well. God said He would write His Law on our hearts. We don't write His laws on our own hearts.

Jesus clearly taught that if a man (or woman) looks on someone lustfully in his/her heart, they have already committed adultery! He made the point clear that it is out of the heart that the Law is broken, even if no "outward" sin physically has been committed. So, when someone asks me, "Shula, weren't you able to not commit murder or adultery or steal?" My answer is, No. I have been angry with my brother in my heart and Jesus calls that akin to murder! I have lusted before and the Lord says I have committed adultery in my heart. I have coveted something that someone else has (in my heart), etc.

The Law is not just an "outward" Law that says, "If you can control your body not to break one of these commands physically, then you are good! No, Jesus says that if our hearts (within) break the Law, it's as the same as carrying it out physically. How can any of us say that we have kept our hearts pure 100% of the time?

We need the grace of God, the Atonement of God Himself. The One Who wrote the Law fulfills it for His own.

Arguing that keeping yourself from bodily committing adultery or stealing or murder does not mean we have not already done so in our hearts! It's not physical obedience that counts for anything! Jesus said, "The flesh counts for nothing."

We need a heart transplant and only Jesus can do it!

 

[Arcoe]

Many people assert that it is possible to keep God's commands prior to being born again. That it's possible to keep one's way clean before God and to do good with an ability we are born with.

Jesus made many remarks to those that opposed Him in His day. The Pharisees were very comfortable in their ability to keep the Law. Jesus warned them that unless our "righteousness surpassed that of the Pharisees we would not see the Kingdom of God."

The commandments were not given to us to keep. The commandments were given by God to show we cannot keep them. This puts "man" in a dilemma. Only 1 Person kept the Law: Jesus. In Him, we are the Righteousness of God, not apart from Him.

The commandments are not merely a law that we keep on the "outside" (physically) but a law that must be kept inwardly as well. God said He would write His Law on our hearts. We don't write His laws on our own hearts.

Jesus clearly taught that if a man (or woman) looks on someone lustfully in his/her heart, they have already committed adultery! He made the point clear that it is out of the heart that the Law is broken, even if no "outward" sin physically has been committed. So, when someone asks me, "Shula, weren't you able to not commit murder or adultery or steal?" My answer is, No. I have been angry with my brother in my heart and Jesus calls that akin to murder! I have lusted before and the Lord says I have committed adultery in my heart. I have coveted something that someone else has (in my heart), etc.

The Law is not just an "outward" Law that says, "If you can control your body not to break one of these commands physically, then you are good! No, Jesus says that if our hearts (within) break the Law, it's as the same as carrying it out physically. How can any of us say that we have kept our hearts pure 100% of the time?

We need the grace of God, the Atonement of God Himself. The One Who wrote the Law fulfills it for His own.

Arguing that keeping yourself from bodily committing adultery or stealing or murder does not mean we have not already done so in our hearts! It's not physical obedience that counts for anything! Jesus said, "The flesh counts for nothing."

We need a heart transplant and only Jesus can do it!

While I agree with you in part, I must ask did you always have hate in your heart towards your brother? Did you not also have love in your heart? I am certainly not saying everyone keeps the law 100% of the time. What I am saying is every man and woman has the ability to keep the law.

I surely don't think you hated and thus murdered everyone before you were regenerated. This would not make for a good marriage with your husband and definitely not good if you always hated and wanted to murder your children.

May I ask, why did He write His laws upon your heart? Was it not to obey them? If you had no ability to obey them, what good would they do in your heart? It would be like putting wings upon a pig...totally useless.

Anyway, thank you for answering.

 

[Shulamite]

While I agree with you in part, I must ask did you always have hate in your heart towards your brother? Did you not also have love in your heart? I am certainly not saying everyone keeps the law 100% of the time. What I am saying is every man and woman has the ability to keep the law.

I surely don't think you hated and thus murdered everyone before you were regenerated. This would not make for a good marriage with your husband and definitely not good if you always hated and wanted to murder your children.

May I ask, why did He write His laws upon your heart? Was it not to obey them? If you had no ability to obey them, what good would they do in your heart? It would be like putting wings upon a pig...totally useless.

Anyway, thank you for answering.

You're welcome! I know my response may not agree with your POV, but I must say it'sactually a pleasure speaking with you. What do you know! I am rejoicing because this is what fellowship with brothers and sisters with differing point of views shoul look like.

Arcoe, I believe as Paul said, "what do you have that you have not received?" All that we are, can do or understand comes from God as the Originator. CAn I ask you a question? I don't believe in free will (a will apart from God), but I'm posing a hypothetical question ina sincere way: if I have free will, apart from God, did I get that free wil from God as my creator, or was I born with it,as if it came from me? Can you explain? Also, if I have the ability to keep God's commands, is my motive out of love for God or to justify myself and show that I can or that I am good? I am asking out of geniune motives. Thanks.

 

[Shulamite]

BTW, I'm using my cell phone in a moving car, so beware the typos! No, I'm not typing while driving *lol*

 

[Arcoe]

You're welcome! I know my response may not agree with your POV, but I must say it'sactually a pleasure speaking with you. What do you know! I am rejoicing because this is what fellowship with brothers and sisters with differing point of views shoul look like.

Thank you Shula. I have no reason to degrade you. If you believe something from your heart, I accept it totally.

Arcoe, I believe as Paul said, "what do you have that you have not received?" All that we are, can do or understand comes from God as the Originator. CAn I ask you a question? I don't believe in free will (a will apart from God), but I'm posing a hypothetical question ina sincere way: if I have free will, apart from God, did I get that free wil from God as my creator, or was I born with it,as if it came from me? Can you explain? Also, if I have the ability to keep God's commands, is my motive out of love for God or to justify myself and show that I can or that I am good? I am asking out of geniune motives. Thanks.

I agree, everything we have comes from God. This is why I believe even the unregenerate have these abilities, because they come from God.

Everyone's free will was given as a gift from God. With free will, man is kept in freedom, that is, he is free to choose good or evil, just as Adam was free to choose the Tree of Life (acknowledging God as Master in all his life), or the evil tree (acknowledging himself as the master of his own life).

Whether your motive to keep God's commands is out of love for God or to justify yourself can only be answered by you and God. You cannot judge others of their motives for doing good, for only they and God know their hearts. No one should even try to guess, or more importantly, make a doctrine of knowing other's intentions of their hearts. We have no knowledge at all of what God is doing in the lives of others.

 

[rogueapologist]

Many people assert that it is possible to keep God's commands prior to being born again. That it's possible to keep one's way clean before God and to do good with an ability we are born with.

Jesus made many remarks to those that opposed Him in His day. The Pharisees were very comfortable in their ability to keep the Law. Jesus warned them that unless our "righteousness surpassed that of the Pharisees we would not see the Kingdom of God."

The commandments were not given to us to keep. The commandments were given by God to show we cannot keep them. This puts "man" in a dilemma. Only 1 Person kept the Law: Jesus. In Him, we are the Righteousness of God, not apart from Him.

The commandments are not merely a law that we keep on the "outside" (physically) but a law that must be kept inwardly as well. God said He would write His Law on our hearts. We don't write His laws on our own hearts.

Jesus clearly taught that if a man (or woman) looks on someone lustfully in his/her heart, they have already committed adultery! He made the point clear that it is out of the heart that the Law is broken, even if no "outward" sin physically has been committed. So, when someone asks me, "Shula, weren't you able to not commit murder or adultery or steal?" My answer is, No. I have been angry with my brother in my heart and Jesus calls that akin to murder! I have lusted before and the Lord says I have committed adultery in my heart. I have coveted something that someone else has (in my heart), etc.

The Law is not just an "outward" Law that says, "If you can control your body not to break one of these commands physically, then you are good! No, Jesus says that if our hearts (within) break the Law, it's as the same as carrying it out physically. How can any of us say that we have kept our hearts pure 100% of the time?

We need the grace of God, the Atonement of God Himself. The One Who wrote the Law fulfills it for His own.

Arguing that keeping yourself from bodily committing adultery or stealing or murder does not mean we have not already done so in our hearts! It's not physical obedience that counts for anything! Jesus said, "The flesh counts for nothing."

We need a heart transplant and only Jesus can do it!

I think that humans (especially the ones of the religious variety) are way more interested in keeping God's "law" than God is. Jesus revealed that the "law" of God is equally simple (not based on what you do, how well you do it, who you are, where you were born, etc.) and hard (it's about your relatedness to the Father, not the law) to keep. However, the point Jesus came to reveal is that keeping the law has zero to do with you "keeping it" or not "keeping it", but everything to do with seeking to be reconciled to the Father. If your life is about the latter, the former is taken care of without you needing to be able (or unable) to do it.

This, incidentally, is where Reformed theology's understanding of "depravity" is, well, particularly depraved. It represents a serious misunderstanding of the nature of humanity's related-ness to God, and compounds the error throughout the systematization of the rest of its discussion about the nature of sin, the miracle of atonement, etc.