@Bible Highlighter is no slouch and one who has done his due diligence and homework . There are things we disagree on but they are not salvific . I don’t sweat those small things. On the essentials he is as solid as they get.
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@Bible Highlighter is no slouch and one who has done his due diligence and homework . There are things we disagree on but they are not salvific . I don’t sweat those small things. On the essentials he is as solid as they get.Sure thing. And it’s coming from both sides.
This is only true if they are Hyper Grace OSAS Christians (i.e., they say they can live in blatant gross sins as a way of life and still be saved by a belief alone in Jesus). Not all OSAS believers are Hyper Grace, though. I know this because I have talked with both in person and online. So this is not the real difference between POTS and OSAS. The only real difference (Which does not change the heart of what POTS and OSAS teaches in that they each teach you are eternally secure) is…Indeed (you're preaching to the choir) . .and I really like your distinction, it's the perfect Biblical response.
I find it so hard to believe that anyone would seriously teach that sin is ok.
May the Lord Jesus Christ get all the glory for any good knowledge He has shown me and for any good done in my life, brother.@Bible Highlighter is no slouch and one who has done his due diligence and homework . There are things we disagree on but they are not salvific . I don’t sweat those small things. On the essentials he is as solid as they get.
The same with you my friendMay the Lord Jesus Christ get all the glory for any good knowledge He has shown me and for any good done in my life, brother.
Praise be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.
May God bless you and your family.
Trust me many think the sin issue is ok and just brush it off and use Paul in Romans 7 as their excuse or the out of context “ chief of sinners” as a justification for sin. IMHO in both cases Paul is describing his past life under the law.Indeed (you're preaching to the choir) . .and I really like your distinction, it's the perfect Biblical response.
I find it so hard to believe that anyone would seriously teach that sin is ok.
It seems that OSAS is being abused and used to mean that the saved do not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience. . .because OSAS.Just giving a quick quib answer with no real substance does not help to explain what you are talking about. Just holding all the cards does not mean you are right. Please explain how you believe OSAS is different than POTS. If you don’t explain it then it defeats the purpose of having any discussion on this matter to begin with.
What is it you do not understand?But you basically said to Claire that holiness was the difference in #628 (Which I already guessed that is what you were thinking because this is not my first rodeo in these kinds of discussions).
This will be a good discussion brother.It seems that OSAS is being abused and used to mean that the saved do not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience. . .because OSAS.
The abuse of OSAS; i.e., one does not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience is in no way related to POTS.
POTS is the Holy Spirit enabling the elect to give diligence to making their calling and election sure so that they do not apostasize, they are kept by the power of God through faith until the coming salvation; i.e., resurrection (1 Pe 1:5) who works in them both to will and to do (Php 2:13). POTS in no way means one does not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience.
But no one is sinless until glory because no one is perfect. We all fall short of the mark somewhere.
And that is where 1 Jn 1:8-10 comes in.
What is it you do not understand?
Okay, if that is what you got out of it, great. Study and education is good.Thank you for telling me to search online. There does appear to be one small minor difference between POTS and OSAS but it is not enough to change the core heart of each of these beliefs in what they are teaching (Which is in the fact that they are both teaching you are eternally secure and sin ultimately does not separate you from God).
POTS and OSAS have different beliefs on what they are trusting in to be eternally secure. While they both can trust in their continued faith and works as evidence they are saved or eternally secure, they each have different foundations (that does not change the core teaching of what POTS and OSAS is). With POTS, you are trusting that you were Elect/Regenerated (along with eternal security verses) to be eternally secure. By contrast, OSAS is saying you are trusting only those verses you think are teaching eternal security and that it is by faith you are eternally secure. But both the false teachings of POTS and OSAS are teaching you are eternally secure. Both of POTS and OSAS in my experience teach you can also interpret 1 John 1:8 as a banner flag to sin on some level, as well. They are each are saying you cannot fall away from God. That is the heart of each of these teachings are really about. So the difference is not really enough to change the core concept of what POTS and OSAS are teaching at the heart (Which I believe is a license to sin on some level).
The only difference I really see is that OSASers believe it is “faith” that the key component as a part of being eternally secure, and POTS folks believe it is “Election/Regeneration” to be eternally secure, but they are BOTH each teaching you are eternally secure and cannot fall away from the faith. Both believe in eternal security verses. Both believe faith and works is to show a true faith. They both teach that if a believer stops believing and or living fruitful, you were never saved to begin with. They both teach you can sin and still be saved on some level (even though they will contradict themselves and say that you must live holy for eternal security to be true).
Maybe PSA is needed and I’ll tag a bunch of members in the thread so we can flush out the true gospel.Okay, if that is what you got out of it, great. Study and education is good.
I understand that this is what you believe, but I have a different experience and understanding on the Scriptures.It seems that OSAS is being abused and used to mean that the saved do not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience. . .because OSAS.
The abuse of OSAS; i.e., one does not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience is in no way related to POTS.
POTS is the Holy Spirit enabling the elect to give diligence to making their calling and election sure so that they do not apostasize, they are kept by the power of God through faith until the coming salvation; i.e., resurrection (1 Pe 1:5) who works in them both to will and to do (Php 2:13). POTS in no way means one does not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience.
But no one is sinless until glory because no one is perfect. We all fall short of the mark somewhere.
And that is where 1 Jn 1:8-10 comes in.
What is it you do not understand?
PSA? That's interesting You would bring that up. Do I know you?Maybe PSA is needed and I’ll tag a bunch of members in the thread so we can flush out the true gospel.
Why do I have to defend wrong understanding of the Biblical POTS?I understand that this is what you believe, but I have a different experience and understanding on the Scriptures.
The problem is that you have men like MacArthur saying that suicide does not lead to spiritual death. The problem is that some sins can be justified and its okay with God. This is wrong.
Amen!Why do I have to defend wrong understanding of the Biblical POTS?
POTS is the Holy Spirit enabling the elect to give diligence to making their calling and election sure so that they do not apostasize, they are kept by the power of God through faith until the coming salvation; i.e., resurrection (1 Pe 1:5) who works in them both to will and to do (Php 2:13). POTS in no way means one does not have to deal with sin and walk in obedience.
But no one is sinless until glory because no one is perfect. We all fall short of the mark somewhere.
And that is where 1 Jn 1:8-10 comes in.
@ladodgers6
The reason why Calvinism is false because it makes Election/Regeneration the means of salvation instead of believing the gospel of salvation. In Calvinism: Believing the gospel is just a peripheral or side effect of being elected/regenerated. Actually, while High Calvinism is false, it is actually more consistent with its belief system than Classical Calvinism. If one is truly Elect or regenerated, then God will make it possible for them to get the necessary info. on the gospel. There would be no need to really preach the gospel. Yet, the Bible teaches we are saved by receiving the gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:-4
”Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
1 Corinthians 1:21
”For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”
God saves them that BELIEVE.
God does not save them that don’t believe yet.
You say that they are saved by a regeneration that proceeds before they even believe.
But my Bible says that are saved by believing.
A person is saved by receiving the gospel.
Sorry but this passage doesn't help your cause. But I will quote the rest of passages.2 Corinthians 4:3-4
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
The gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day.
The gospel at the heart is believing in Jesus.
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