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Featured JUSTICE, JUST and the Wrath of God

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Ron Gurley, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Can you show me one verse that says in no uncertain terms that God will never save anyone, even the unrepentant after death. No you can't. There are none.

    Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
     
  2. Micah888

    Micah888 Well-Known Member

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    But not necessarily in God's Heaven. We are not told precisely where, but there are two other heavens which could have been the venue.
    And Christians know that Universalism is false doctrine.
     
  3. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yet you said sin cannot enter God's presence. But Satan did.

    Many Christians have believed in & do believe in universalism. Many others hope for it:

    Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
     
  4. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    You blow off all the sources which disprove your assumptions/assumptions,
    "Also that the pro ECT Bible versions are once again misleading & decieving the public, injecting their own theological biases into the Scriptures, just as they do with the words aion/ios & olam."
    How do we know that the sources which you cite as reliable are not just as misleading & deceiving the public, injecting their own theological biases into the Scriptures as the ones you reject or even more so? We don't!
     
  5. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I have never said or implied that "God will never save anyone" therefore I have no requirement to provide verses for something I never said. However you have repeatedly made the claim that "Omnipotent Love has no expirary date like a carton of milk" and "Love Omnipotent will grant people to repent, either in this life or postmortem."
     
  6. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    Love works through righteousness:

    John 14: 15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

    Did you read my post, THE GARMENT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS? I truly recommend it though I later made some changes but not on the one that is posted but nevertheless is full of good spiritual meat.
     
  7. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For one example of "one" i am referring to, you have implied that God will never save Judas. But never proven your case. Neither have you ever shown that God's love expires for the lost after death. Such ideas are make belief, not Scripture.

    7 Myths About Universalism
     
  8. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You might try asking & seeking God:

    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    OTOH you might also consider:

    Your "qualified" men following the Douay & KJV traditions of men of "the church" of the Inquisitions, Crusades & dark ages have been caught in a deception (Jer.8:8-9):

    Considering, then, that the Greek word aionios has a range of meanings, biased men should not have rendered the word in Mt.25:46 by their theological opinions as "everlasting". Thus they did not translate the word, but interpreted it. OTOH the versions with age-lasting, eonian & the like gave faithful translations & left the interpreting up to the readers as to what specific meaning within the "range of meanings" the word holds in any specific context. What biased scholars after the Douay & KJV traditions of the dark ages "church" have done is change the words of Scriptures to their own opinions, which is shameful.

    Jeremiah 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
    9 "The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD..."

    "After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version)."

    Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

    "Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."(Prov.30:6)

    -----------------------------------------------


    According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

    “I affirm that there is not in the whole voluminous code of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, from the beginning of Genesis, to the end of Revelation, one single passage,
    one solitary text, in which the doctrine of the eternity of hell-torments is taught."

    1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    "The Third Law of Theology: For every theologian there is an equal and opposite theologian."

    Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
     
  9. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    This reminds me of a story I heard which is partially based on fact.
    ========================================
    A biker goes into a large mega Church. He was wearing clean but worn jeans, leather, jacket, boots. He had long hair in a pony tail and a beard, some tatoos. The "good" people in the church edged away from him.
    After the service as he was leaving the pastor stopped him and said "Son, if you come back next week you should pray and ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The next week he came back and just like the previous week the "good" people tried to avoid him. After the service the pastor stopped him again and said "I told you to pray and ask God how you should dress when you come to this church." The biker said "I did, He said He didn't know He has never been in this church."
    =============================
    A few years ago a biker pastor, who looked like a biker; jeans, leather jacket, long hair, pony tail, beard etc., visited the church where I was ministering. The church has a fellowship in the foyer with coffee, snacks etc. before the service. The visiting pastor was surprised and grateful for the Christian reception he received. He said he had visited another church in the area but was stopped at the door by two ushers who told him he would have to leave he "represent[ed] 'the world' and he was not welcome."

    Except for the scripture quotations most of this is the same ol' repetitious arguments and quotes. For every "scholar" you quote who supports UR I can quote an equal or greater number who oppose it. And I will pay as much attention to the "scholarly" quotes you post as you do to my posts. As I said before this is not for your benefit. I joined this forum abut 2 decades ago and I quickly learned the hard core believers of any heterodox doctrine are almost impossible to reach. My target audience are the disgruntled, searching, discouraged, unsure etc. who are thinking about joining or leaving such a group. Every insult that you hurl at scholars who disprove UR are equally applicable to UR writers. They are just as biased as anyone else.
     
  10. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Please show me where I have ever said or implied that God would never save Judas or anyone else? I have quoted scripture which states that some go away into "eternal punishment" are "thrown into gehenna where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die." etc.
    .....And I have said that the recidivism rate for US prisons is 66+%. Out of 1000 prisoners released from prison, more than 660 will return. Many of those blame everyone but themselves for their situation; parents, judges, lawyers, juries, witnesses and many try to take vengeance on those they blame. If those who go away into "eternal punishment" are "thrown into gehenna where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die." etc. are released after some period of time will they be filled with warm fuzzies and love for God or will they be just like a majority of criminals are today?
     
  11. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Already addressed here:

    Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

    Mark 9: 43-49 addressed here:
    Early church opposition to endless hell



    In universalism Love Omnipotent has all eternity to save everyone. Not just a few years as in your example. So He has an infinite number of chances to offer people to get saved. Mathematically that makes it impossible anyone would reject Him forever. His love doesn't have an expiry date like a carton of milk.

    Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
     
  12. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    In universalism Love Omnipotent has all eternity to save everyone. Not just a few years as in your example. So He has an infinite number of chances to offer people to get saved. Mathematically that makes it impossible anyone would reject Him forever. His love doesn't have an expiry date like a carton of milk.
    Does not address my post in any way. You keep repeating this over and over but you have not been able to provide me even one scripture where "Love Omnipotent", i.e. God Himself, not one of the prophets or a NT writer, says unequivocally that He will save all mankind even after death. Why don't you ask some of the "experts" you endlessly quote e.g. tents-r-us, high priestess Illaria Ramelli, Gary Beauchamin etc.
     
  13. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It clearly did & referred to your example:


    In universalism Love Omnipotent has all eternity to save everyone. Not just a few years as in your example. So He has an infinite number of chances to offer people to get saved. Mathematically that makes it impossible anyone would reject Him forever. His love doesn't have an expiry date like a carton of milk.

    Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
     
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Meaningless biased rhetoric unless you can provide me even one scripture where "Love Omnipotent", i.e. God Himself, not one of the prophets or a NT writer, says unequivocally that He will save all mankind even after death. If you can't locate one on your own why don't you ask some of the "experts" you endlessly quote e.g. tents-r-us, high priestess Illaria Ramelli, Gary Beauchamin etc.
     
  15. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, it directly responded to your comment.
     
  16. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    No it did not. You demonstrate over and over that your entire argument is nothing but copy/paste from tents-r-us, high priestess Illaria Ramelli, Gary Beauchamin etc. You endlessly repeat your catch phrase as if it was some kind of magic mantra "Love Omnipotent has all eternity to save everyone. His love doesn't have an expiry date like a carton of milk." If "Love Omnipotent" intends to save everyone, even the unrepentant after death He must have clearly stated that somewhere. Where is the verse, more than one would be better, where "Love Omnipotent" unequivocally stated that He would in fact save everyone including the unrepentant after death. Until you can do that your entire argument is nothing but empty rhetoric.
     
  17. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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