Just when I was starting to like Christianity...

[LyricalX]

I read this

Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among neighboring the nations. You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and raised in their land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves. (Leviticus 25:44-46).

Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

 

[needfaith]

Oops - is that a fair point??

 

[loriersea]

If you realize that Leviticus does not contain the direct, unmediated word of God, but the collected laws of the Hebrew people, who had powerful experiences of God that were filtered through their own experience, and culture, then it isn't such an indictment of Christianity, just of a Christianity that demands literal adherence to a specific text.

 

[revmalone]

I read this



Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

That is mosaic law, meant for the nation of Israel. Christians are to act different then that. We are to share the gospel of Christ so that all my be free.

I have a question to ask you? Do you feel this same way when you borrow money, the bible tells us we are slave to the lender. See just as that is conditional so is the verse you have reffered to my friend.

The old Testament is for us to learn from but the New testament is what we as Christians try and follow. Read from matthew-revelations.

Bro Malone

 

[LyricalX]

so Christians don't follow anything in the Old Testament?

Back when Europe was enslaving African

They would use that to make out what they were doing is fine

 

[calidog]

you'll have to bring that up with moses

 

[calidog]

so Christians don't follow anything in the Old Testament?

Back when Europe was enslaving African

They would use that to make out what they were doing is fine

nope. we follow new testament.

 

[LyricalX]

Where does it say in the Bible

'Forget all that, do this now'

Why bother having the Old Testament?

 

[dvd_holc]

Well, the old testiment was written in a specific time and rooted within a normative culture. The old testiment lead the way in culture and developed it a contra to the normative. Unlike, what the other cultures attitude toward slavery, a jew never owned a person. A person was to be treated with respect and love. Now, through Christ (what Christ accomplished) all of humanity was called back to the restoration of the earth. Jesus came to set people free of corruption in all its forms. Through Christ, there is no longer a slave or master, Jew or Gentile, male or female,....there is only the believer who is the true humanity within the creation or non believer who corrupts creation. The believer continues to be loving and caring toward the unbeliever. There is never a cause of hatred. And there is never a cause of ownership of being because God claims it all himself. It Paul's letter to Philomen:

15Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.

The slave that Paul is talking about could have been punished to death. Paul spokes how treating him as a brother not as a slave. As we continue to work through all the ramifications of our freedom...it becomes apart that we are opposed to slavery and ownership.

 

[dvd_holc]

Where does it say in the Bible

'Forget all that, do this now'

Why bother having the Old Testament?

It nevers says forget that all. It was through Jesus that acts of devotion to God was reduced to the true purpose of love and restoration of humanity. It was Jesus who said don't judge. It was Jesus who made it clear what are the things that made us acceptable to God. It was Jesus who lived out the purpose of the Father that brought the fulfillment of Heaven present on Earth. In shorter words, through Christ, Jesus was the first to be the true human and through him the rest of humanity will be saved and restored to the God's harmonic garden or paradise.

 

[ITBM]

I read this Leviticus 24:44-46. Try and defend that one.
No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

1. Read the other verse around that text. After 50 years the people are no longer slaves. They were also to treat the people with respect and dignity.

2. In the New Testament Paul gives instructions for slaves and masters on how to behave. However, he never endorsed owning a slave.

3. Many non-christian nations enslaved people as well. (that doesn't make it any less wrong)

4. Many evil things have been done in the "name of God". But if they don't agree with ALL of the scripture then they are wrong. A few examples are, the KKK using scripture to hate other "races" or American slave owners.

Testament means agreement of covenant. Old Testament means the old covenant. The Jewish people are under the old testament with God. THose who ebelieve in Jesus Christ are under the New Testament (new covenant).

Does that mean we ignore the Old Testament? No. Jesus said that He didn't come to do away with the Old Testament but to complete it. To fulfill it.

 

[Merlin]

I read this:
Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among neighboring the nations. You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and raised in their land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves. (Leviticus 25:44-46).

Try and defend that one

=and=

Where does it say in the Bible
'Forget all that, do this now'
Why bother having the Old Testament?

That's a good bunch of questions!
The Old Testament discusses Hebrew Law, Hebrew History and Prophecy.

It's good for learning about the children of Israel and their life/experiences.

The church leaders found themselves questioning these same things.
You can find the discussion in the book of Acts.
Their conclusion:

Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

 

[12volt_man]

I read this



Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

First of all, I'm not sure why you're judging Christianity based on Jewish scriptures.

Second, when God allows slavery, it is generally for one of two reasons: As a result of His judgement on the enslaved nation or to preserve Israel.

It's important to consider several things when talking about slavery.

The first is that it's misleading to view Biblical slavery in terms of our experience with slavery here in North America in the last couple of years.

They're not the same things. God gave strict instructions for slaveholders to treat their slaves humanely and even tells them to let their slaves go after a period of time.

Bondage is bad. I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise. However, they're simply not the same thing.

In fact, many of the examples of slavery in the NT aren't slavery at all, as we know it, but indenture.

 

[£amb]

LyricalX,

It's wonderful that you have opened up to wanting to believe. I have been trying to keep up with the many questions you have. Are you truly seeking God or you using certain verses to go "oh, I wanted to believe in God, but let's see what the christians have to say about this". I've noticed that alot. When are you ready to believe and accept God into your life? Are you waiting for all the verses to be clarified? What will you do when certain verses have been clarified to you...are you ready to put your life into God's hands?

 

[Rafael]

I read this



Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

Easily, if taken within the context of the scriptures and cultures. The Israelites were bound by law to not mistreat any indentured servants or slaves under their care. People who were broke and without property in those days would often sell themselves or their families into slavery so they could eat and have shelter. It was only within the nation of Israel that these people had rights and the opportunity to be free of their masters at the year of Jubilee. A person cannot just make a quick judgement of a nation of people without first studying the background and culture - if they don't wnat to be misled and then spead those misconceptions to others out of ignorance.
Throughout the scriptures, what is the message Jesus came with? - "to set the captives free", and we are all enslaved to sin and death until He sets us free and gives us that opportunity to be free. Most chose to be His love-slave and bind theirselves to Him in love as Master because of gratitude to Him for giving up His own life for them. So understanding the complete concept of slavery within the scriptures and knowing the difference between being held a slave to that which is evil or good is necessary before judging falsely.
Also, this link might help in understanding:
http://www.carm.org/diff/Lev_25_44.htm

 

[Rolf Ernst]

so Christians don't follow anything in the Old Testament?

Back when Europe was enslaving African

They would use that to make out what they were doing is fine

A dose of reality for you: The people of Africa are still enslaving one another. The slave trade in England was brought to a halt by white CHRISTIAN preachers who regularly met to pray for the end of slavery. White CHRISTIAN preachers were the leading force in bringing slavery to a halt in America. When the truth doesn't fit the profile you want, you have to misrepresent it by ignoring the effects of Christianity, don't you. You would do better to be concerned about being in slavery to the wickedness of sin and unbelief. Christ said, "If you believe not that I am He, you shall die in your sins." That has to do with an everlasting bondage to the uttermost depths of wickedness in hell. If you don't get your fill of sin in this life and flee to Christ for deliverance from it, you will be bound by it for eternity. Are you bodily enslaved by anyone now? Are you a free man now? You might not be if you had grown up in Africa. If you are not bodily enslaved, your next interest should be escaping the bondage to sin. For freedom from bondage to sin, you will have to go to Christ.

 

[shirono]

If you realize that Leviticus does not contain the direct, unmediated word of God, but the collected laws of the Hebrew people, who had powerful experiences of God that were filtered through their own experience, and culture, then it isn't such an indictment of Christianity, just of a Christianity that demands literal adherence to a specific text.

so since God wasn't the one who said all that stuff, why do you christians say that Homosexuality is wrong in gods eyes, the verses you usually cite are out of leviticus and you say that not all of those laws were written by God. So how do you figure out whichones are right to follow and which ones are not.

Or is it just your own disgust for homosexuals that lead you to say it's wrong?

just a friendly question from heathen exchristian.

 

[LyricalX]

LyricalX,

It's wonderful that you have opened up to wanting to believe. I have been trying to keep up with the many questions you have. Are you truly seeking God or you using certain verses to go "oh, I wanted to believe in God, but let's see what the christians have to say about this".

I ask because some of it confuses me. Christianity is meant to be so against slavery etc. and then I read that. So who better to question than a Christian?

I've noticed that alot. When are you ready to believe and accept God into your life?

When im 100% it is the road to take, when will that be? I have no idea, I don't want to rush myself, but I don't want to be too late.

Are you waiting for all the verses to be clarified?

Bluntly, yes

What will you do when certain verses have been clarified to you...are you ready to put your life into God's hands?

If I like and believe what I see, yes

Im reading the Book of John right now. And it's great, i'd love it to be true, and the text book problem is, I'm not sure if it's true.


@Rolf Ernst

Actually that link did help thank you. Although im VERY against slavery, it is true that at that time and place they weren't like the African slaves etc.

But it is the historical crimes that is another factor against Christianity

 

[dvd_holc]

so since God wasn't the one who said all that stuff, why do you christians say that Homosexuality is wrong in gods eyes, the verses you usually cite are out of leviticus and you say that not all of those laws were written by God. So how do you figure out whichones are right to follow and which ones are not.

Or is it just your own disgust for homosexuals that lead you to say it's wrong?

just a friendly question from heathen exchristian.

good question. And, you are correct in your reaction to her statement. Lets look at something inside Lev 19:18

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Yes, homosexuality is wrong. And, yes God spoke and wrote the scriptures.

 

[dvd_holc]

happy birthday!