Just Truth

[David Lamb]

If you love truth so much,
why do you just say things?

I know your post wasn't directed at me, but my immediate thought is that because of the nature of this forum, with members spread around the world, we can usually only know another forum member by what they write (or "say", as you put it). How do you know that LoveofTruth "just says things", implying that he or she doesn't actually believe them and live by them?

 

[LoveofTruth]

If you love truth so much,
why do you just say things?

Not sure what you mean by that? We all say things in here.

 

[LoveofTruth]

" just say things" with no regard for whether they
are factual or just your opinion.

Everything I say can be backed up with scripture and facts. Everything.

 

[th1bill]

I expected a better response. Focus on answering the points in my post, instead of trying ad-hominem fallacies.

What you consider fallacy I know from transitional life-changing testing to be spiritual truth. You are certainly not remarkable in this area as most church members are not indwelt with the Ruah and consider those of us that the Spirit lives in to be odd ducks. But the truth, the absolute truth is found in the scriptures and one says:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Source: 16 Bible verses about Jesus Statements About The Spirit

The Pentecostals have one glaring point correct, not tongues but, if a person is not led by Ruah, they can be but, are not presently a member of the Church, the Church Yashua came to found.

 

[th1bill]

Bible is neither God nor God's direct product. It was written by people, copied by people, composed by people, picked by people, translated by people, printed by people. And it is read and interpreted by people.


Take two gospels and compare them side by side where they speak about the same events. Even important or prominent places, like the Our Father prayer, have different versions.

I think it may be possible that, one of the reasons 4 gospels were chosen by the first church instead of just one, was to prevent any kind of fanatical or idolizing view regarding the Scriptures. The variations are easily apparent to everyone who just wants to look, without a need to spend days studying deeper things like textual families or translations.

 

[th1bill]

It is painfully apparent that you have never been a Police Officer, nor have you served as a soldier on the field of battle. In this case, you have three eyewitnesses and Dr. Luke, who is thought to be recording St. Peter's story for the record.

To begin... no four soldiers in the same battle and no four witnesses on the scene of an accident see the same things and all tell the story differently because their perspective and their memories differ.

You appear to think little of Yehovah's ability to preserve the accuracy of His Letters to His people. This is not true but it is to anybody that does not carry the Ruah in their hearts that their Spiritual Ears and Eyes might be opened. It troubles me to say this but truth is truth.

 

[trophy33]

What you consider fallacy I know from transitional life-changing testing to be spiritual truth. You are certainly not remarkable in this area as most church members are not indwelt with the Ruah and consider those of us that the Spirit lives in to be odd ducks. But the truth, the absolute truth is found in the scriptures and one says:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Source: 16 Bible verses about Jesus Statements About The Spirit

The Pentecostals have one glaring point correct, not tongues but, if a person is not led by Ruah, they can be but, are not presently a member of the Church, the Church Yashua came to found.

Try to focus on the points I made in my post, do not derail it to the waters you want to be in. I am not interested in playing games "who is the real Christian" and similar.

 

[trophy33]

...their perspective and their memories differ.

Congratulations, you have now realized that the biblical books were written by individual human authors:

a) from their perspective (a global flood destroyed right there, for example)

b) and from their memory (a word-for-word inspiration/reliability destroyed right there)

 

[th1bill]

Congratulations, you have now realized that the biblical books were written by individual human authors:

a) from their perspective (a global flood destroyed right there, for example)

b) and from their memory (a word-for-word inspiration/reliability destroyed right there)

You bark at me as if you want to be the DI here and just as people love doing to scripture you pull a partial statement I made, completely out of context corkscrewing away from the truth. I, regardless of you twisting, do not wish to change the subject. Wanna try for a real answer to my post?

 

[trophy33]

You bark at me as if you want to be the DI here and just as people love doing to scripture you pull a partial statement I made, completely out of context corkscrewing away from the truth. I, regardless of you twisting, do not wish to change the subject. Wanna try for a real answer to my post?

There is no question in your post to answer.

Regarding your reasoning, its inconsistent. First you argue that gospels differ because of human fallible nature and then you switch to the ability of God to preserve the accuracy. You jump from factual to hypothetical at will.

 

[Astrid]

You bark at me as if you want to be the DI here and just as people love doing to scripture you pull a partial statement I made, completely out of context corkscrewing away from the truth. I, regardless of you twisting, do not wish to change the subject. Wanna try for a real answer to my post?

You mean you still don't realize something
so obvious?

 

[dlamberth]

Theres also the mismatch between text and
what is written into the earth itself.

This!!!

 

[Astrid]

This!!!

It's so profoundly disrespectful to scorn
that truth and pretend to have deeper
insight gained through the absurd route of
no effort at all, deny whatever god there may be,
and all the works laid out before us.

Denied in favour of self fancied infallible bible-
reading.

 

[th1bill]

You mean you still don't realize something
so obvious?

What, may I ask, is so obvious to you?

 

[th1bill]

There is no question in your post to answer.

Regarding your reasoning, its inconsistent. First you argue that gospels differ because of human fallible nature and then you switch to the ability of God to preserve the accuracy. You jump from factual to hypothetical at will.

If you were indwelt, making Yehovah's perspective available to you, you would understand what I speak of. My reasoning is straight on, the four Gos[[els have each witness' personality bends but the main points are just and harmonize without conflict. Yahovah has always chosen to fill witnesses with His Spirit but allow each witness to report in their own style.

 

[trophy33]

but the main points are just and harmonize without conflict.

Only "main points" are inspired? So no word-for-word dictation type of inspiration?

Thats fine with me (even though quite vague and subjective to determine if something is "main" or not). For example, is the Our Father prayer a main point or not? Two people will differ in their opinion on it.

If you were indwelt, making Yehovah's perspective available to you, you would understand what I speak of.

Stop trying to give yourself some advantageous position in a conversation. You are not special and we have the same tools to discuss things - facts and reasoning.

Also, its against the rules of these forums (and against the biblical instruction) to claim that other Christians do not have God in the same way you claim to have.

 

[Astrid]

What, may I ask, is so obvious to you?

That's a clear enough answer to my q.
You don't see it.
My telling you would be met with denial.
You look, it's your prob, not mine.

 

[th1bill]

That's a clear enough answer to my q.
You don't see it.
My telling you would be met with denial.
You look, it's your prob, not mine.

ah... a catty answer

 

[th1bill]

Only "main points" are inspired? So no word-for-word dictation type of inspiration?

Thats fine with me (even though quite vague and subjective to determine if something is "main" or not). For example, is the Our Father prayer a main point or not? Two people will differ in their opinion on it.


Stop trying to give yourself some advantageous position in a conversation. You are not special and we have the same tools to discuss things - facts and reasoning.

Also, its against the rules of these forums (and against the biblical instruction) to claim that other Christians do not have God in the same way you claim to have.

I did not say that, you are twisting my statement and this cinversation is over between you and I. I try living by the Word of Yahovah, my Elohim, and you are indicating here that you are offended by the pure Word and I have nothing else for you but that truth.

 

[th1bill]

That's a clear enough answer to my q.
You don't see it.
My telling you would be met with denial.
You look, it's your prob, not mine.

I have no problem I know of other than living within a framework built by men while serving our Elohim.