Just to bring the Israel/Palestinian war into perspective.

[Landon Caeli]

I mean seriously @rambot this conflict has existed for nearly 100 years now. After Hamas is gone, it's going to continue on unless hard lessons are taught at some point.

 

[rambot]

I mean seriously @rambot this conflict has existed for nearly 100 years now. After Hamas is gone, it's going to continue on unless hard lessons are taught at some point.

I'm just not convinced that's the right attitude given the lack of humanity Israel is showing Gazans.

Am I to assume you are right with hard lessons being taught against Israel by Iran, say?


I mean seriously, if Israel was wiped off the map, the conflict would ALSO be all over.

Not advocating it, just pointing it out.

 

[rambot]

This is coming from a Jewish person so it's more factual:

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm just not convinced that's the right attitude given the lack of humanity Israel is showing Gazans.

Am I to assume you are right with hard lessons being taught against Israel by Iran, say?


I mean seriously, if Israel was wiped off the map, the conflict would ALSO be all over.

Not advocating it, just pointing it out.

That would depend on whether Iran has the capability of teaching hard lessons to Israel. Sources suggest that most likely, they do not.

https://warriormaven.com/global-security/iran-vs-israel-who-wins-an-all-out-war

 

[Palmfever]

If they would have left Israel alone, This war would not have happened.
Reuters
August 2005 - Israeli forces unilaterally withdraw from Gaza 38 years after capturing it from Egypt in the Middle East war, abandoning settlements and leaving the enclave under the control of the Palestinian Authority.
Jan. 25, 2006 - The Islamist group Hamas wins a majority of seats in a Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the U.S. cut off aid to Palestinians because Hamas refuses to renounce violence and recognise Israel.

June 25, 2006 - Hamas militants capture Israeli army conscript Gilad Shalit in a cross-border raid from Gaza, prompting Israeli air strikes and incursions. Shalit is finally freed more than five years later in a prisoner exchange.
June 14, 2007 - Hamas takes over Gaza in a brief civil war, ousting Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is based in the West Bank.
Dec. 27, 2008 - Israel launches a 22-day military offensive in Gaza after Palestinians fire rockets at the southern Israeli town of Sderot. About 1,400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis are reported killed before a ceasefire is agreed.

Nov. 14, 2012 - Israel kills Hamas's military chief of staff, Ahmad Jabari. Eight days of Palestinian militant rocket fire and Israeli air strikes follow.
July-August 2014 - The kidnap and killing of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas leads to a seven-week war in which more than 2,100 Palestinians are reported killed in Gaza and 73 Israelis are reported dead, 67 of them military.
March 2018 - Palestinian protests begin at Gaza’s fenced border with Israel. Israeli troops open fire to keep protestors back. More than 170 Palestinians are reported killed in several months of protests, which also prompt fighting between Hamas and Israeli forces.

May 2021 - After weeks of tension during the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, hundreds of Palestinians are wounded in clashes with Israeli security forces at the Al Aqsa compound in Jerusalem, Islam’s third holiest site.
After demanding Israel withdraw security forces from the compound, Hamas unleashes a barrage of rockets from Gaza into Israel. Israel hits back with air strikes on Gaza. Fighting goes on for 11 days, killing at least 250 people in Gaza and 13 in Israel.

Aug 2022 - At least 44 people, including 15 children, are killed in three days of violence that begin when Israeli air strikes hit a senior Islamic Jihad commander.
Israel says the strikes were a pre-emptive operation against an imminent attack by the Iranian-backed militant movement, targeting commanders and arms depots. In response, Islamic Jihad fires more than 1,000 rockets towards Israel. Israel's Iron Dome air defence system prevents any serious damage or casualties.
Jan 2023 - Islamic Jihad in Gaza fires two rockets towards Israel after Israeli troops raid a refugee camp and kill seven Palestinian gunmen and two civilians. The rockets set off alarms in Israeli communities near the border but cause no casualties. Israel responds with air strikes on Gaza.
Oct 2023 - Hamas launches the biggest attack on Israel in years from the Gaza Strip, with a surprise assault combining gunmen crossing the border with a heavy barrage of rockets. Islamic Jihad says its fighters have joined the attack.

Reminds me of a line in an old movie, "What do you do with a mad dog Harry?"

 

[rambot]

If they would have left Israel alone, This war would not have happened.
Reuters
August 2005 - Israeli forces unilaterally withdraw from Gaza 38 years after capturing it from Egypt in the Middle East war, abandoning settlements and leaving the enclave under the control of the Palestinian Authority.
Jan. 25, 2006 - The Islamist group Hamas wins a majority of seats in a Palestinian legislative election. Israel and the U.S. cut off aid to Palestinians because Hamas refuses to renounce violence and recognise Israel.

June 25, 2006 - Hamas militants capture Israeli army conscript Gilad Shalit in a cross-border raid from Gaza, prompting Israeli air strikes and incursions. Shalit is finally freed more than five years later in a prisoner exchange.
June 14, 2007 - Hamas takes over Gaza in a brief civil war, ousting Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is based in the West Bank.
Dec. 27, 2008 - Israel launches a 22-day military offensive in Gaza after Palestinians fire rockets at the southern Israeli town of Sderot. About 1,400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis are reported killed before a ceasefire is agreed.

Nov. 14, 2012 - Israel kills Hamas's military chief of staff, Ahmad Jabari. Eight days of Palestinian militant rocket fire and Israeli air strikes follow.
July-August 2014 - The kidnap and killing of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas leads to a seven-week war in which more than 2,100 Palestinians are reported killed in Gaza and 73 Israelis are reported dead, 67 of them military.
March 2018 - Palestinian protests begin at Gaza’s fenced border with Israel. Israeli troops open fire to keep protestors back. More than 170 Palestinians are reported killed in several months of protests, which also prompt fighting between Hamas and Israeli forces.

May 2021 - After weeks of tension during the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, hundreds of Palestinians are wounded in clashes with Israeli security forces at the Al Aqsa compound in Jerusalem, Islam’s third holiest site.
After demanding Israel withdraw security forces from the compound, Hamas unleashes a barrage of rockets from Gaza into Israel. Israel hits back with air strikes on Gaza. Fighting goes on for 11 days, killing at least 250 people in Gaza and 13 in Israel.

Aug 2022 - At least 44 people, including 15 children, are killed in three days of violence that begin when Israeli air strikes hit a senior Islamic Jihad commander.
Israel says the strikes were a pre-emptive operation against an imminent attack by the Iranian-backed militant movement, targeting commanders and arms depots. In response, Islamic Jihad fires more than 1,000 rockets towards Israel. Israel's Iron Dome air defence system prevents any serious damage or casualties.
Jan 2023 - Islamic Jihad in Gaza fires two rockets towards Israel after Israeli troops raid a refugee camp and kill seven Palestinian gunmen and two civilians. The rockets set off alarms in Israeli communities near the border but cause no casualties. Israel responds with air strikes on Gaza.
Oct 2023 - Hamas launches the biggest attack on Israel in years from the Gaza Strip, with a surprise assault combining gunmen crossing the border with a heavy barrage of rockets. Islamic Jihad says its fighters have joined the attack.

Reminds me of a line in an old movie, "What do you do with a mad dog Harry?"

I refuse to ever accept at face value a history of the region doesn't discuss or even acknowledge Israel's atrocities (including day to day treatment, razing or stealing of houses) but clearly and purposefully paints them as the fair and honest player.


It should be embarrassing to present this as a legitimate and balanced historical representation.

 

[Palmfever]

It should be embarrassing to present this as a legitimate and balanced historical representation.

Not a bit. I know it's Reuters and not Cretin News Network, but they are more reputable.

 

[JosephZ]

Sad as it is that there are no other options available.

Israel had the option to show respect towards the Palestinian people, protect them from the actions of Hamas, and keep them safe during counterterrorism operations following the October 7th terrorist attack. Unfortunately, Israel failed at all three of those concepts in its fight against Hamas and has chosen a path that will ensure the cycle of violence will continue for at least another generation.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's ignorant and disrespectful that they don't already fear Israel, as they should. So as far as lessons go, that fear needs to be instilled into their hearts, so that their children's children hold that fear that they ought to have.

...And if they can't fear Israel, then let the lessons continue on until the end, or forever.

...30x worse. Everytime. All the time.

Should they stop when they get to 30x? (It must be getting close by now.)

 

[Landon Caeli]

Israel had the option to show respect towards the Palestinian people, protect them from the actions of Hamas, and keep them safe during counterterrorism operations following the October 7th terrorist attack. Unfortunately, Israel failed at all three of those concepts in its fight against Hamas and has chosen a path that will ensure the cycle of violence will continue for at least another generation.

It's one theory, that by treating Palestinians respectfully, that they would return that kindness back onto Israel. But the unfortunate reality, is that certain cultures see kindness as weakness, and as something to exploit and take advantage of.

I believe the Islamic cultural tradition is to respect relentless power. So that's unfortunate for Palestinians.

Show me anywhere in the Islamic world, where kindness is respected, if you think it's worth looking into - I just don't see it anywhere. The concept itself is too avante-garde for such a culture.

 

[rambot]

It's one theory, that by treating Palestinians respectfully, that they would return that kindness back onto Israel.

And the fundamental problem is that you think that ever happenned.

 

[hislegacy]

Show me where in the Israeli Constitution or Leadership positions it calls for murdering the Palestinians - equivalent to what I linked to from the Palestinian leadership that I have already shown and we can talk...

Sorry - the Palestinians are at the height of racism - they are openly calling for the murder of an entire race of people. Not enslavement, not subjection, not taking land - but killing every man, woman and child.

How do you negotiate with a person whose sole purpose and goal is to see you dead?

Why have there been 30,000 deaths? Because the murderers and hostage holders are in the middle of civilian neighborhoods - they use their own people as Human shields. They fire rockets from schools and hospitals - they bunker under neighborhoods.

There are supposedly over 3,000,000 Palestinians and less than 30,000 Hamas - that is a ratio of 100 to 1 - it the 3million did not support the 30k - the answer is simple - remove them from power, not allow them to keep going.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Should they stop when they get to 30x? (It must be getting close by now.)

Yes, that's covered. Hamas just needs to quit firing rockets, so Israel can get their final shots in. Then it can be done.

Until then, it's not over. Amd that seems like a fair request considering Hamas started this.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, that's covered. Hamas just needs to quit firing rockets, so Israel can get their final shots in. Then it can be done.

Until then, it's not over.

What a bloodthirsty and vengeful view.

 

[hislegacy]

Israel had the option to show respect towards the Palestinian people, protect them from the actions of Hamas, and keep them safe during counterterrorism operations following the October 7th terrorist attack. Unfortunately, Israel failed at all three of those concepts in its fight against Hamas and has chosen a path that will ensure the cycle of violence will continue for at least another generation.

Pssst.... the Palestinians voted Hamas in as leaders of their government.

Hamas Wins Palestinian Authority Elections

Following a background report, Margaret Warner reports from Jerusalem on Hamas' victory Thursday in the Palestinian elections. The victory by the militant Islamic group, which has called for the destruction of Israel, was unexpected among leaders in the region and around the globe.

www.pbs.org

And by day, it was Hamas supporters who were jamming the streets. Running in their first national electoral outing, Hamas candidates won a huge victory, securing 76 seats to Fatah's 43 in the Palestinian Legislative Council.​

​

Hamas voters descended on the council building, tore down the Palestinian flag and flew their own Islamic banner, underscoring the end to Fatah's ten-year dominance of government here.​

Palestinian majority SUPPORT Hamas - from 2006 to this day. They are not separate, nor innocent.

 

[hislegacy]

What a bloodthirsty and vengeful view.

It's called war.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Palestinian majority SUPPORT Hamas - from 2006 to this day. They are not separate, nor innocent.

What happened in the subsequent elections?

 

[hislegacy]

What happened in the subsequent elections?

Who is the ruling party in Palestine right now - today - - who does the vast majority of the population of Gaza support?

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Who is the ruling party in Palestine right now - today - -

That isn’t an answer to the question. How have elections in Palestine gone since 2006?

 

[hislegacy]

That isn’t an answer to the question. How have elections in Palestine gone since 2006?

Hamas has been in control from 2006 until 2017 when the Palestinian Authority took the PM's position, but to this day only control 40% of Gaza - the other 60% is Hamas.