Just for final clarification yes, we evolved from monkeys.

[AV1611VET]

Me neither. That didn't happen. You have to be careful in trying to ridicule a process that you have just exhibited that you don't understand.

Like miracles?

 

[tampasteve]

No serious person thinks we "evolved from monkeys".

I believe in the Word of God and also look at the evidence around us that points to evolution. The two can work together, ignoring the scientific evidence of at least Thomistic evolution is just that, ignoring the actual evidence around us. The fossils are there, we can't just pretend they are not what they certainly seem to be based on a vast amount of research. FWIW, most Christians also fall into this category.

 

[AV1611VET]

Personally I firmly believe the fossils of half human/half ape skulls and skeletons found that are frequently used to defend evolution are simply ancient skeletons of severely birth-defected humans.

So do I.

God warned the Israelites that He would judge them with "plagues wonderful" if they sinned.

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

I believe David was plagued with that, and note how he describes its effect on his bones:

Psalm 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.

He repented of his sins in Chapter 39, and God healed him in Chapter 40.

 

[tampasteve]

Personally I firmly believe the fossils of half human/half ape skulls and skeletons found that are frequently used to defend evolution are simply ancient skeletons of severely birth-defected humans.

Except we have found way too many to account for the few that may have been defects that actually also became fossilized. The odds of that being the answer are very slim indeed.

Take microcephaly for example,it’s a rare birth condition that shrinks the skull size,could there perhaps be other illnesses that in times past have done the same if not the opposite?,very likely.

Interesting hypothesis, if it is "very likely" what evidence is there to support this hypothesis and also having it be so widely distributed among early hominins for what seems to be hundreds of thousands to millions of years, causing symptoms in the skeletal structure that are identifiably the same, and also be a illness that was passed down broadly? Further, since we don't find "normal" homo sapien type fossils in that same range it seems like a hypothesis that is incorrect.

 

[AV1611VET]

Except we have found way too many to account for the few that may have been defects that actually also became fossilized.

According to the Smithsonian, [only] six thousand fossils, ranging from skeletons to [just] teeth have been found.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Um...maybe work on your paleontology a bit. Some of that is painful to,read.

Are you an evolution denier? Paleontologists agree one common ancestor was the origin of many related species, like the trunk, branches, and twigs on a tree, for each taxonomic category. For example, one feline species led to lions, tigers, cougars, servals, bobcats, and a lot more. I am sure you can see this while looking at related animals at the zoo, including gorillas and chimpanzees.

 

[Astrid]

A little late to the game here, but I don't see how any Christian can believe or endorse the thought/suggestion/assertion that we started out as monkeys.

Sometimes, I despair.

You despair when people are educated enough to
start understanding that much is not as the ancients
imagined?

If you cannot understand how any chridtian can
endorse evolution and deep time it's a matter fairly
simple to remedy.
I won't say "easy" as it takes work.
educate yourself to data that goes into the
science!

You will find no flaws. Don't expect to, no
researcher on earth ever has.

I you do- somehow- know that evolution and deep
time are both false, you know more than any
scientist on Earth, and didn't even have to work at it!

You don't even have any data.

Consider for a moment if that actually
sounds believable. Does it?
There's the Nobel of all time awaitimg
anyone who could disprove ToE / deep time.

Do you really- really know as much as you think
you do?

With all due respect Estir, it’s sad anyone can believe evolution and think they’re a meaningless pile of cells living a purposeless life.that’s very sad my friend

There's quite a list of "sad" in your post here.

For a start, that you'd find it acceptable, and Christian ,
to just make up something contemptuously dismissive,
and say it about someone.

You certainly do not know that about me and in fact
it could hardly be more wrong.

You might deal with that first.


There's a lot more, but ToE is not something to
" believe ". Like " faith" in whatever religion you choose
to "believe".

It's something to understand. Like auto mechanics.
You understand it like I understand German. Or
auto mechanics.

A person who does understand it can only deny
the validity of ToE through abandonment of intellectual
integrity, as I could readily demonstrate.

Your ignorance and, frankly, yes, bigotry, are
sad. So is making things up.

You might want to work on those.

 

[YorkieGal]

You despair when people are educated enough to
start understanding that much is not as the ancients
imagined?

If you cannot understand how any chridtian can
endorse evolution and deep time it's a matter fairly
simple to remedy.
I won't say "easy" as it takes work.
educate yourself to data that goes into the
science!

You will find no flaws. Don't expect to, no
researcher on earth ever has.

I you do- somehow- know that evolution and deep
time are both false, you know more than any
scientist on Earth, and didn't even have to work at it!

You don't even have any data.

Consider for a moment if that actually
sounds believable. Does it?
There's the Nobel of all time awaitimg
anyone who could disprove ToE / deep time.

Do you really- really know as much as you think
you do?

There's quite a list of "sad" in your post here.

For a start, that you'd find it acceptable, and Christian ,
to just make up something contemptuously dismissive,
and say it about someone.

You certainly do not know that about me and in fact
it could hardly be more wrong.

You might deal with that first.


There's a lot more, but ToE is not something to
" believe ". Like " faith" in whatever religion you choose
to "believe".

It's something to understand. Like auto mechanics.
You understand it like I understand German. Or
auto mechanics.

A person who does understand it can only deny
the validity of ToE through abandonment of intellectual
integrity, as I could readily demonstrate.

Your ignorance and, frankly, yes, bigotry, are
sad. So is making things up.

You might want to work on those.

I have literally already stated that I formally studied neuroscience and biology in university so I'm not going off of anything but previous education but also have admitted my bias as any formally educated 'scientist' is supposed to do....

 

[Blaise N]

Me neither. That didn't happen. You have to be careful in trying to ridicule a process that you have just exhibited that you don't understand.

Just because there’s a meticulous chronological process doesn’t deny the fact that that’s exactly what scientists think,Apes=Humans(eventually) is the exact mindset.

Going back on the meaningfulness some unbelievers have,deep down,even you,every unbeliever has a small sliver of hopelessness,that’s why unbelievers fill their lives with all sorts of immoral and poor practices,to fill the void of hopelessness.

Like Blaise pascal once said

“
There is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God, the Creator, made known through
Jesus.”

 

[Divide]

Why is it then, if we're animals, that educated people scratch their heads and wonder why some people act like them?

Remember Klebold & Harris?

Weren't they just responding naturally to environmental pressure?

And I love asking this question:

Which one wore the shirt that said NATURAL SELECTION?

I remember that well. I was living in Colorado Springs with my family when that happened. And they tried to lay some pressure on me, Lol! My young kids fot into a fight on a saturday morning when the momma was at work and I was watching them. I was letting them fight because, when I was a kid that's how my big brothers taught me to stay out of their stuff, lol. So I was letting them go at it and get it out of their system.

Well the backyard sliding door was open and they did get sorta loud. A neighbor called the police and said it sounds like someone is dying over there. I didn't know it because we havdnt been living there long, but mine was a hot address that the swat team had been to before because some guy stabbed his wife. Soo, they sent a swat team to my house. And they were adament that they had to do a walk through to make sure no one was hurt. (Maybe I shouldnt have let them continue fighting). The kids momma wasnt even there and the kids were fine. They were friends again within a half hour. Nobody was found hurt, it was a mistake! We're the New Tenants, not the old tenants!

But the point is, they could have left and everything is ok. But they didnt. They were offended that we had so many guns. We've had guns all over the house and always have. My kids grew up with loaded guns almost everywhere. My Dad started us on shooting when I was like 6 or 7 so I've been a gin guy and hunter my whole life. And they do tend to accumulate over time, you know what I mean? And they didnt like that so they (wrongfully) seized all of them. (except the ones they couldnt find, lol). I had to go to court to get my property back. No crime had been committed!

Well all of this happened at the same time that Dylan & Klebold incident occured in Aurora. I had to hire a lawyer because the plea bargain was forfeit your property and we drop the charges. (Holding my Wife Hostage...while she was at work?!) They wanted to keep my guns. I heard Dylan & Klebolds tossed around towards me a couple times! I could not believe it! That case had exactly zero to do with my case. Even my so called Lawyer tried to persuade me to let them keep the guns so it can be over...? I stood up right in court and told him, you are fired. WHo's side are you on?

I had genius inspiriation. (??). Contach the Prosecuting Attorney and speak to the man myself. He wasnt hard to find. I found his home number and called him on a Sunday! I spoke as a reasonable man should to him and, somehow...by the grace of God, he responded to me positively. We cut a deal, I pay some money and I recover all of my property.

I'll never forget how the El-Paso county judicial system tried to associate my case to Dylan & Klebolds, like some sort of twisted notion that it would be a good act to follow to show my sympathy for the tragedy of all those kids killed at Columbine! We have entered the Twilight Zone. I have to laugh now but this is a true story.

 

[Divide]

I remember that well. I was living in Colorado Springs with my family when that happened. And they tried to lay some pressure on me, Lol! My young kids fot into a fight on a saturday morning when the momma was at work and I was watching them. I was letting them fight because, when I was a kid that's how my big brothers taught me to stay out of their stuff, lol. So I was letting them go at it and get it out of their system.

Well the backyard sliding door was open and they did get sorta loud. A neighbor called the police and said it sounds like someone is dying over there. I didn't know it because we havdnt been living there long, but mine was a hot address that the swat team had been to before because some guy stabbed his wife. Soo, they sent a swat team to my house. And they were adament that they had to do a walk through to make sure no one was hurt. (Maybe I shouldnt have let them continue fighting). The kids momma wasnt even there and the kids were fine. They were friends again within a half hour. Nobody was found hurt, it was a mistake! We're the New Tenants, not the old tenants!

But the point is, they could have left and everything is ok. But they didnt. They were offended that we had so many guns. We've had guns all over the house and always have. My kids grew up with loaded guns almost everywhere. My Dad started us on shooting when I was like 6 or 7 so I've been a gin guy and hunter my whole life. And they do tend to accumulate over time, you know what I mean? And they didnt like that so they (wrongfully) seized all of them. (except the ones they couldnt find, lol). I had to go to court to get my property back. No crime had been committed!

Well all of this happened at the same time that Dylan & Klebold incident occured in Aurora. I had to hire a lawyer because the plea bargain was forfeit your property and we drop the charges. (Holding my Wife Hostage...while she was at work?!) They wanted to keep my guns. I heard Dylan & Klebolds tossed around towards me a couple times! I could not believe it! That case had exactly zero to do with my case. Even my so called Lawyer tried to persuade me to let them keep the guns so it can be over...? I stood up right in court and told him, you are fired. WHo's side are you on?

I had genius inspiriation. (??). Contach the Prosecuting Attorney and speak to the man myself. He wasnt hard to find. I found his home number and called him on a Sunday! I spoke as a reasonable man should to him and, somehow...by the grace of God, he responded to me positively. We cut a deal, I pay some money and I recover all of my property.

I'll never forget how the El-Paso county judicial system tried to associate my case to Dylan & Klebolds, like some sort of twisted notion that it would be a good act to follow to show my sympathy for the tragedy of all those kids killed at Columbine! We have entered the Twilight Zone. I have to laugh now but this is a true story.

I remember calling the evidence room (building) to make an appointment to come down and receive my property and guns back. She said, those weapons are not here anymore they've been destroyed...I said very politely, That's funny because I hold a court order signed by a judge in my hand right now that says my property shall be preserved until the outcome of the trial....She says, let me call you back...(LOL!)

She called back pretty quick with good news! They found all my guns they ones who she thought had taken possession of them for destruction got the flu and dint make that trip, so we do have them for you, all of them.

When I was at the evidence room and presented my paperwork and she made the determination to have them start bringing out my guns...I felt good! So I siad in light humor, I bet you guys dont do this very often, do you? And the girl said, No, not any since her entire hitory there. we dont give back guns. I tried to tell them I was a good guy when they came to my house, I told her.

They even stole 3 things from me that were on the evidence seized document that didnt come back. A pair of (1920'-40's) homemade brass knuckles that were carried by my great grandpa into the beer joints in the 40's... sort of family heirloom thing. It's illegal to carry brass knuckles on the street. They took them from my bedroom nightstand. They did not take them off the street. Plus they got me for some good ammo, lol. (I have to laugh. And be wiser next time.

I shouldnt have let them in.

 

[com7fy8]

I see this all the time, it's become one of those knee jerk responses, but we did infact evolve from monkeys if evolution is true.

"if evolution is true"

Chimpanzees kill other monkeys for food and ones can kill their own infants, if I remember correctly, and the killers get no change in social status because of this.

And scientists even might say that is being practical, in order to not get overpopulation, of the chimps or the monkeys they kill and eat . . . maybe so they do not overeat the vegetable food items in an area.

But humans do not freely practice population control like monkeys can. They do not see culling themselves as being practical, or at least they don't do this openly. If anyone does, by means of wars and deliberate pandemics and abortion more among certain groups than others, they can risk their status by being open about it.

So, why would "evolution" freely develop population control with no change of social status, only as far as humans? And now that we have possibly billions in overpopulation, all of a sudden people now are getting a conscience about executing evil people, at least in certain cultures.

This tells me there is something more than material evolutionary principles affecting things.

Plenty of animals are not kind to each other. It even is clear that they need to kill and compete so they do not overpopulate and then suffer sickness and starvation. Yet, humans keep doing what overpopulated plus what destroys their resources and environment.

So, from this I consider there is more to humans, than only animal evolution. I do not trust that evolution of material atoms and molecules according to consistent principles would produce us > our bodies have materials with their consistent principles, and yet we humans can have such exact opposite people > ones caring and kind, no matter what, while others become more and more nasty no matter how good you are to them. And ones make exact opposite choices about Jesus.

I do not think materials acting according to consistent principles could produce humans who act according to inconsistent and opposite principles, and principles so different than those of animals.

 

[Astrid]

I have literally already stated that I formally studied neuroscience and biology in university so I'm not going off of anything but previous education but also have admitted my bias as any formally educated 'scientist' is supposed to do....

You omitted any comment on your having
made up something nonsensical and false about me.

A school where they teach that ToE is somehow archaic,
false, disproved or whatever it was is a crap excase
for a school.

The theory has not been disproven.

That is a fact which is immune to bias.

Though those who will may go with denial and
deceive themselves

Why did you make up something about me?

 

[AV1611VET]

The theory has not been disproven.

I honestly believe that the task of disproving evolution is Jesus' job.

And the reason I believe that, is because I believe the Antichrist is going to use evolution to his advantage during the Tribulation to get people to take the Mark.

And until Jesus does come back and pwn it, the theory of evolution is going to wax stronger and stronger.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I honestly believe that the task of disproving evolution is Jesus' job.

And the reason I believe that, is because I believe the Antichrist is going to use evolution to his advantage during the Tribulation to get people to take the Mark.

And until Jesus does come back and pwn it, the theory of evolution is going to wax stronger and stronger.

Even though you've repeatedly been saying that evolution is a theory in crisis.

It's one or the other.

 

[tampasteve]

I honestly believe that the task of disproving evolution is Jesus' job.

And the reason I believe that, is because I believe the Antichrist is going to use evolution to his advantage during the Tribulation to get people to take the Mark.

And until Jesus does come back and pwn it, the theory of evolution is going to wax stronger and stronger.

Please don't forget that many Christians believe in the possibility of evolution, theistic or otherwise. That belief does not mean we are anti-Christ or working against Jesus. We can hold different ideas, I have no issue with that, but don't say I am in league with some sort of anti-Christ figure because my belief is different from yours.

 

[AV1611VET]

Even though you've repeatedly been saying that evolution is a theory in crisis.

It's one or the other.

Good point.

I do believe it is a theory in crisis.

But I also believe the Antichrist is going to remove that crisis and make evolution sound so simple a child could understand it.

And he will top it off with a demonstration of abiogenesis.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please don't forget that many Christians believe in the possibility of evolution, theistic or otherwise.

That is correct.

That belief does not mean we are anti-Christ or working against Jesus.

That is absolutely correct.

We can hold different ideas,

Yup.

I have no issue with that, but don't say I am in league with some sort of anti-Christ figure because my belief is different from yours.

Okay.

And let me point out, you won't be here then.

Neither will I.

So I'm not accusing any Christian alive today, that they will be taking the Mark.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Good point.

I do believe it is a theory in crisis.

But I also believe the Antichrist is going to remove that crisis and make evolution sound so simple a child could understand it.

And he will top it off with a demonstration of abiogenesis.

... I have to say that you really must not see Christianity to be strong as you think it is if you think it can be overturned for near enough the whole world if you think that evolution being simplified and abiogenesis being shown to be a thing (which would technically be spontaneous generation in your example, not abiogensis, which would P off a lot of scientists in the world of all religious beliefs).

 

[AV1611VET]

... I have to say that you really must not see Christianity to be strong as you think it is if you think it can be overturned for near enough the whole world ...

First of all, "Christianity" won't be here.

Even the Holy Ghost is going up in the Rapture.

Second of all, I submit you don't know how convincing the Devil can be.

And when he takes over -- unchecked -- it's going to be one doosey of a ride.

... if you think that evolution being simplified and abiogenesis being shown to be a thing (which would technically be spontaneous generation in your example, not abiogensis, which would P off a lot of scientists in the world of all religious beliefs).

No, it isn't spontaneous generation.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Some may think that, but it isn't.