Just curious

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How many of you SDA go to The Bible when you have a question or do you look at your churches literature to give you understanding of what the Bible says?

Have you ever been told by your Superiors to look only at SDA material?


I always go the bible. If there is no biblical basis.. I throw it out the window. The bible is my only creed. I don't about others, but I have never been told to only look at SDA material.
 
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Stryder06

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How many of you SDA go to The Bible when you have a question or do you look at your churches literature to give you understanding of what the Bible says?

Have you ever been told by your Superiors to look only at SDA material?

I always go to the bible.

I wonder if your real question is "how many of you use the bible to answer your question vs EGW?" That's just a guess though.
 
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mmksparbud

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Always has been the bible, never once told to look only at SDA literature. In fact, we had to go to other churches (in high school) and find out directly from the church leaders what each faith believed. We then would bring in what we found out, and with only the bible, discuss why they believe what they do and why we believe what we do--never once was an EGW book brought in. We had bible classes were we discussed the bible--using only the bible. EGW was only occassionally brought in and only at the end of a discussion. She was a seperate study, but the bible was always brought in when we discussed her writings. I don't know if this was done in all schools or what--I'm just stating my experience. I read her books while in my teens--I read everything I could get my hands on, I even read cereal boxes. I was always buried in a book. I came to the states at 9 and learned English real quick--and read Frued by age 13, along with EGW and whatever books I could get from the local library--It was how I spent my summers--we did not have money for summer vacations. Books were my escape. EGW's visions were really "neat"--I thought. My brother, the one who smoked pot, brought me one of her visions and said, "Wow, this is like reading a trip!!"--He was a drug addict, but he always remained a vegetarian (his one hold on God, I guess)--everytime he was in jail, he'd try to convert others to vegetarianism--he liked reading her books. He said it helped him to understand the bible better. He had a harder time with English than I did. I liked reading the bible as I liked trying to figure out the language--still prefer the King James Version--more poetic, I guess.
 
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Xenon

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It would depend on the question. Some questions cover info only given in EGW statements. Other questions are more quickly answered by EGW statements than by Bible studies. But whenever possible, I prefer to use the Bible to answer my questions.

No one has ever told me to look only at SDA material. An EGW statement applies here: "Truth loses nothing by inquiry." :)
 
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JohnMarsten

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Well, I would come and say that the 'truth' here is somewhere in the middle...

Of course, the myth exists that SDAizm is bible based, and that the bible alone is autority next to egw and stuff...

however, the bible only concept works only in a limited way, especially when it comes to crucial points of SDAizm, for example abstinence... which mean without SDA commentary you might end up thinking that wine is ok, or at least was ok during OT times and even tithes money was used to buy all kinds of stuff in order to have one with everyone! SDAizm doesnt allow such literall approach and will come up with outrageous grape juice theories which on their own arent found in the bible ( I think it has been proven that if God wanted to say grape juice he would have done so)...

and there is many more such examples...

but this is only when you take the bible as a starting point...

SDAizm doesnt work this way! of course during evagelistic meetings (via satelite for example) you are very unlikely to hear about and SOP stuff... egw might not even be called a prophet, I heard the word religious writer, which is even true in essence but definitely a word not used within SDA circles and rather used in order not to frighten people of a possible prophet who mandates some serious life changes...

but like I said SDAizm doesnt word this way...

the thing is that once a new person will enter SDAizm, they will necessarilly meet a lot of people who have already been initiated... indoctrinated... etc...

now many SDA concepts arent found in the bible, of course one can find the clean/unclean animal stuff but the idea of becoming closer to God when becoming a vegetarian and lateron a vegan is somewhat obscure, and if one has read the bible first might be a little unbiblical...

and so are many, many other concepts...

or in other words, can a person take the bible only and answer the question: to eat meat or not to eat meat with sola scriptura?
 
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Stryder06

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Well, I would come and say that the 'truth' here is somewhere in the middle...

Of course, the myth exists that SDAizm is bible based, and that the bible alone is autority next to egw and stuff...

however, the bible only concept works only in a limited way, especially when it comes to crucial points of SDAizm, for example abstinence... which mean without SDA commentary you might end up thinking that wine is ok, or at least was ok during OT times and even tithes money was used to buy all kinds of stuff in order to have one with everyone! SDAizm doesnt allow such literall approach and will come up with outrageous grape juice theories which on their own arent found in the bible ( I think it has been proven that if God wanted to say grape juice he would have done so)...

It's very interesting to me how hung up you are on being able to justify drinking alcohol.

and there is many more such examples...

but this is only when you take the bible as a starting point...

SDAizm doesnt work this way! of course during evagelistic meetings (via satelite for example) you are very unlikely to hear about and SOP stuff... egw might not even be called a prophet, I heard the word religious writer, which is even true in essence but definitely a word not used within SDA circles and rather used in order not to frighten people of a possible prophet who mandates some serious life changes...

It's not about being scared, but about dealing with prejudice. And Sr White doesn't call for any serious life changes not already stated in the bible.

but like I said SDAizm doesnt word this way...

the thing is that once a new person will enter SDAizm, they will necessarilly meet a lot of people who have already been initiated... indoctrinated... etc...

Don't worry, the indoctrination process is gentile. ;)

now many SDA concepts arent found in the bible, of course one can find the clean/unclean animal stuff but the idea of becoming closer to God when becoming a vegetarian and lateron a vegan is somewhat obscure, and if one has read the bible first might be a little unbiblical...

and so are many, many other concepts...

There are various teachings that are not in scripture. No Adventist should say otherwise. These however are not doctrines, which are two separate things. All of our doctrines are founded in the scriptures.

or in other words, can a person take the bible only and answer the question: to eat meat or not to eat meat with sola scriptura?

Totally.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Since we are touching on the meat vs veggie issue, I will ask the question I have of many an Adventist and never gotten an answer...

If it is wrong to eat meat (some say a sin), why did Jesus do it? Where in the Bible, except for the pre-fall time, does the Bible say to not eat clean meat?
 
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Stryder06

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Since we are touching on the meat vs veggie issue, I will ask the question I have of many an Adventist and never gotten an answer...

If it is wrong to eat meat (some say a sin), why did Jesus do it? Where in the Bible, except for the pre-fall time, does the Bible say to not eat clean meat?

Never believed it was a sin to eat clean meat. Now, would I say that we ought to consider any of the meat that is processed today as clean...that'd be a stretch ;)

I believe that if a move from meat is possible, it should be done. It's healthier, and we should consider the fact that God didn't make animals to be food. I believe it's a sin how animals are treated before they are butchered just so we can have flesh. It's something I think we should all seek the Lord's guidance on.
 
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OntheDL

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Since we are touching on the meat vs veggie issue, I will ask the question I have of many an Adventist and never gotten an answer...

If it is wrong to eat meat (some say a sin), why did Jesus do it? Where in the Bible, except for the pre-fall time, does the Bible say to not eat clean meat?

Things may have been shown but were not seen by the beholder.

It all depends on what we are looking for and if we have preconceived ideas.

No one said eating meat is a sin. However disobedience is. Did Adam and Eve sin because of eating the fruit or because of disobedience?

You study Daniel and Revelation. The prophecy and the dates are important. However they teach you how to live during the endtime crisis that is often missed.

The young Hebrews had to have their diet reformed before they were able to stand firm to a crisis. Because the diet affects the mind and the spirit.

You know the current meat condition because of the industrialization. If apples were to be contaminated and become harmful to your health, would you insist on eating it because the bible does not forbid it?

There will be no meat eating in heaven. Those who are in sanctification are being trained to live in heaven where there will be no more bloodshed and no more death. How could Jesus force you to change your character, your taste if you aren't going to do it willingly?

Meat eating was given to mankind by God as a curse. Receive his blessings.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Things may have been shown but were not seen by the beholder.

It all depends on what we are looking for and if we have preconceived ideas.

No one said eating meat is a sin. However disobedience is. Did Adam and Eve sin because of eating the fruit or because of disobedience?

You study Daniel and Revelation. The prophecy and the dates are important. However they teach you how to live during the endtime crisis that is often missed.

The young Hebrews had to have their diet reformed before they were able to stand firm to a crisis. Because the diet affects the mind and the spirit.

You know the current meat condition because of the industrialization. If apples were to be contaminated and become harmful to your health, would you insist on eating it because the bible does not forbid it?

There will be no meat eating in heaven. Those who are in sanctification are being trained to live in heaven where there will be no more bloodshed and no more death. How could Jesus force you to change your character, your taste if you aren't going to do it willingly?

Meat eating was given to mankind by God as a curse. Receive his blessings.

Thanx... I know the reasoning given for meat abstinance but my question has always been, if eating meat was a curse and not something pleasing to God, then why did Jesus eat of it? Wouldn't the example of doing as Christ does been more clear if He was noted as a man that did not eat meat?
 
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mmksparbud

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Christ and all Jews wered to eat Lamb on Passover. It was required for the Passover ritual. Christ also ate fish. These people lived where fish was abundant. The object is health. Did they have a lot of vegetables and fruit to eat? Not always. Only during the growing season and then they dried the fruit. They did not have canning yet! There are times when you have to eat what is available, but they ate according to the clean meats. Also, How often did they eat meat? I doubt that it was every day, 3 times a day. They basically grew their own and had to have the animals for sacrifice, that took precedence over their stomachs. Their fish did not live in polluted waters loaded with mercury. Their animals for food were not loaded with hormones. The killing of the animals were specific and they had to be disease free. Nowadays, they throw everything into the "killing fields". Animals are treated cruelly and live in huge crowded places without access to pastures--and the pastures that they had were not treated with pesticides. Even their wine was different. Not loaded with all sorts of chemicals, nitrites--and again, the grapes were not treated with pesticides. Their cattle were not huge holsteins, there are some cows still raised in Israel that are of the old type. They are small compared to what we're used to. They also ate goat. The cheeses they had were mostly made from milk from goat, and sheep and some oxen and a few cows. They also had some venison. All were much healthier and lived in pastures or in the wild. Nothing like what we have today. And when you have to catch, and kill your own animals for food--you just don't want to eat that much of them! You get attached to the critters! It's tuff to kill and hard work to butcher. We had one whole lamb that we bought and had to cut up--it took forever and it was hard work, and we had a freezer to through it into. We did it one time only--It was just too much, took hours! Fish is easier and you don't have the fur and feathers, just some scales! My brother had a bunch of chickens, one in particular was his favorite, yes, Henrietta!! She'd roost on his shoulder--no way would he eat her!! And kids get even more attached to animals. To see them on the dinning room table is traumatic! I would not eat the pidgeons that my father would occasionally butcher--they were pets, they had names, I had to feed them. He had over 200 of them, he'd let them out they would flew around and then return home. Great to watch--they mated for life. Petunia ended up on my plate and I almost threw up!!
 
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OntheDL

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Christ and all Jews wered to eat Lamb on Passover. It was required for the Passover ritual. Christ also ate fish. These people lived where fish was abundant. The object is health. Did they have a lot of vegetables and fruit to eat? Not always. Only during the growing season and then they dried the fruit. They did not have canning yet! There are times when you have to eat what is available, but they ate according to the clean meats. Also, How often did they eat meat? I doubt that it was every day, 3 times a day. They basically grew their own and had to have the animals for sacrifice, that took precedence over their stomachs. Their fish did not live in polluted waters loaded with mercury. Their animals for food were not loaded with hormones. The killing of the animals were specific and they had to be disease free. Nowadays, they throw everything into the "killing fields". Animals are treated cruelly and live in huge crowded places without access to pastures--and the pastures that they had were not treated with pesticides. Even their wine was different. Not loaded with all sorts of chemicals, nitrites--and again, the grapes were not treated with pesticides. Their cattle were not huge holsteins, there are some cows still raised in Israel that are of the old type. They are small compared to what we're used to. They also ate goat. The cheeses they had were mostly made from milk from goat, and sheep and some oxen and a few cows. They also had some venison. All were much healthier and lived in pastures or in the wild. Nothing like what we have today. And when you have to catch, and kill your own animals for food--you just don't want to eat that much of them! You get attached to the critters! It's tuff to kill and hard work to butcher. We had one whole lamb that we bought and had to cut up--it took forever and it was hard work, and we had a freezer to through it into. We did it one time only--It was just too much, took hours! Fish is easier and you don't have the fur and feathers, just some scales! My brother had a bunch of chickens, one in particular was his favorite, yes, Henrietta!! She'd roost on his shoulder--no way would he eat her!! And kids get even more attached to animals. To see them on the dinning room table is traumatic! I would not eat the pidgeons that my father would occasionally butcher--they were pets, they had names, I had to feed them. He had over 200 of them, he'd let them out they would flew around and then return home. Great to watch--they mated for life. Petunia ended up on my plate and I almost threw up!!

Well said.

I just want to add that the rabbinical records showed the priests partook the flesh from the sacrifice. The size was to be about the size of an olive, about the same size as Christian communion bread. And the fish because there was no refrigeration (just dried, salted for preservation), it was not consumed at large quantity.

Anyways, the primary mission of Jesus while on this earth was to save lost sheep of Israel. That (abstinence from meat) wasn't the requirement for that generation.
 
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JohnMarsten

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It's very interesting to me how hung up you are on being able to justify drinking alcohol.



It's not about being scared, but about dealing with prejudice. And Sr White doesn't call for any serious life changes not already stated in the bible.



Don't worry, the indoctrination process is gentile. ;)



There are various teachings that are not in scripture. No Adventist should say otherwise. These however are not doctrines, which are two separate things. All of our doctrines are founded in the scriptures.



Totally.

I see you dont take the subject seriously!

what kind of an answer is the word 'totally', am I supposed to simply believe you? so what is the answer btw, meat or not meat?

btw Conklin made me aware that there is just one doctrine in the church, rest is statements of faith... check it up bro, think again, and come back
 
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JohnMarsten

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Since we are touching on the meat vs veggie issue, I will ask the question I have of many an Adventist and never gotten an answer...

If it is wrong to eat meat (some say a sin), why did Jesus do it? Where in the Bible, except for the pre-fall time, does the Bible say to not eat clean meat?

ECR, thats where SDAizm comes in... they call it present truth, think about it
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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ECR, thats where SDAizm comes in... they call it present truth, think about it

Nice try marsten but i'm not going down your road, thank you very much...

I understand the health concerns with the meat of today and the issues with the mass slaughter (thats why I buy local from small farms). I also understand the premise behind the vegetarianism being healthier (although without fortified foods, a lack of B12 in the diet would be not so healthy, also the toxins used on fruits and veggies and the chemically fertilized soil lacking any real nuitrients), if done properly. Have you noticed what passes for 'healthy vegetarian' food at most potlucks? Lots of sweets and packages and canned ingredients that are higher in sodium than an order of McDonalds french fries.

My deal is that I am told I am not supposed to do what Christ, my example in all things, did... we talk about unity of the brethren, but the condemnation from the 'cheese police' within the church is anything but unifying. Even sister white said on more than one occasion that the diet was not to be a test of fellowship. She advocated for the use of eggs in the sanitariums, gave her grandchildren milk to drink and counselled to eat meat on occasion. I think the militant health advocates within the church are doing much harm in the spreading of the gospel of the three angels message.
 
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