Just an insteresting scripture

ladylove · Sep 17, 2002

Tallyn,

The signs or more accurately the seals broken from the large scroll are conditions set forth that are to happen in sequence to determine the time of the Lord's arrival. Be that as it may, someone already mentioned the sixth seal which is the lights of the heavenly bodies will in effect be "turned off." This is THE SIGN that signals the imminent return of the the Lord physically to earth. Once this sign is given, "Look up!! For your redeemption draweth nigh." That means that the rapture of the church is about to take place and the Day of the Lord is about to begin...

Tallyn · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Tallyn,

The signs or more accurately the seals broken from the large scroll are conditions set forth that are to happen in sequence to determine the time of the Lord's arrival. Be that as it may, someone already mentioned the sixth seal which is the lights of the heavenly bodies will in effect be "turned off." This is THE SIGN that signals the imminent return of the the Lord physically to earth. Once this sign is given, "Look up!! For your redeemption draweth nigh." That means that the rapture of the church is about to take place and the Day of the Lord is about to begin...

Now we're talking. So when the sun and moon and stars dim out, we can expect our resurrection to be near.

I agree with Frank on the issue though. Signs were given to us for a specific reason. I mean, why would there be all these seals and signs for us to watch out for, if they didn't play some role in His coming?

Tallyn

ladylove · Sep 17, 2002

Tallyn

The seals were meant as comfort to the saints from our Lord in the most horrific days the world has ever or will ever know. To those who are prepared and understand to them it is given to teach those who do not, for those are blessed for they understand what is happening around them and do not faint as a result of the terror. Those are the ones the Lord speaks of as the virgins who have trimmed their oil in preparation of the coming of the bridegroom.

Those are the ones who will not be surprised when the the Lord comes "as a thief in the night."

Frank · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by The Bible is Right
You say "weak answer" but if you have been following the thread for a while you would have notice the post prior to the one you have just made the "weak answer" conment.  I said the purpose is to be Ready by staying busy doing the Lord's work, so if you're going to follow, make sure, that you follow close enough to know what someone else is saying.

So staying busy and doing the Lord's work will make you instantly aware of the resurrection taking place, or Christ coming as a thief?  You still didn't address my question.  A good thief comes and leaves without anyone noticing...if that's how the return of Christ is suppose to be, because that's what the Bible says, how will YOU, know when He returns?

ladylove · Sep 18, 2002

The passage referred to is 1 Thes. 5:2 let me quote it:

"For you yourselves know full well that the Day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."

The Apostle Paul was talking to the believers in Thessalonica regarding what they (believers) should already know about regarding the rapture of the church. But he changes gears and in Chap. 5 Paul is talking about the unbelievers and their reaction to what is happening around them. To unbelievers, it will be a totally surprise to them when God's judgment is poured out -- unexpectantly. Judgment comes like "a thief in the night" when unbelievers feel secure when in fact, they are not.

Hope this helps you, Frank.

LastDazed · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Tallyn

The seals were meant as comfort to the saints from our Lord in the most horrific days the world has ever or will ever know. To those who are prepared and understand to them it is given to teach those who do not, for those are blessed for they understand what is happening around them and do not faint as a result of the terror. Those are the ones the Lord speaks of as the virgins who have trimmed their oil in preparation of the coming of the bridegroom.

Those are the ones who will not be surprised when the the Lord comes "as a thief in the night."

 

This brings up something I've always wondered about. It might be a slight stray from the general topic of the thread, but I think it is relevant to the current discussion

Who today can I trust to infallibly claim that a particular event is in fact the fulfillment of prophesy?

So many pundants over the years have attempted to do so, only to be wrong.  Many have pointed to the same event, claiming it fulfilled a different prophesy, and many have pointed to different events, claiming they are the fulfillment of a certain prophesy.

The only thing these folks have in common is their 100% error

The only ironclad evidence I know of, of anyone being 100% correct in claiming a particular event actually fulfilled prophesy, is found in the scriptures themselves, and is confined to the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.

Can anyone point me to another, qualified, infallible source besides them?

Thanks,

LD

ladylove · Sep 18, 2002

LD,

You have answered your own question, my friend!!

Scripture is the final authority on what it says and it says what it means and means what it says.

You are correct about "interpreters" of prophecy in the past. I think they have good intentions and those of Christian faith who truly love the Lord and seek to do right. It has caused many to become cynical about biblical prophecy and do not trust anyone to explain anything to them. It is completely understandable, but it is not a cause for quitting. I was mislead too in the past, and the fantastic events that will happen in the future as a result of being in Daniel's 70th week are overwheming as you study.

Nevertheless, it always comes down to putting Scripture in context and working thru seeming inconsistencies of bible passages. Hard work, but very rewarding. I have changed my view to a pre-wrath position for any changes in understanding must be in light of biblical consistency and for me, a bible-believing Christian, that is the ONLY thing that matters in my faith and practice.

I dunno if I answered your question, but you must be willing to put aside preconceived ideas of another when the bible consistency and accuracy are at stake. Best wishes!!

GraftMeIn · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by Tallyn
Okay, but what sort of signs? I mean, we have eclipses and falling stars and such already. Anything more specific?

revelations gives a few signs

Revelation 8:7 -12
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

To what degree though? I mean, aren't many nations distressed today? Thoughts?

Reading Zechariah might give you a better idea of what it will be like. I would have to say yes, it seems all the nations are distressed today.

the sea and the waves roaring;
 
I think this already happens.

I agree we seem to be seeing alot of typhoons, hurricans etc... lately. We could start seeing even more of this. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

I do not grasp this verse. It seems like the kingdom of heaven, wherever it exists, shakes violently; causing all mankind on earth to quake with fear. I'm not sure how this specifically will happen, so I'm not sure what to look for.

Those who aren't looking to the Lord will be gripped with fear because of what's taking place on the earth. Those of us who look to the Lord have no reason to fear. Remember that those who don't believe fear death, those of us who do believe have no reason to fear death, or anything on this earth that can harm us, because when our flesh dies we attain an everlasting life, one much better than the one we live now. Our hope is in the Lord, not in the world itself.

This is good and all, but it seems like the Lord will come before you can even recognize the signs of his coming.
Also, can someone explain to me about being caught up into the clouds and the air? I mean, do we sit on the clouds and watch armageddon go down? Or do we just pass through them on our way to Heaven...which....would seem like it exists in sub-space or outer-space somewhere.

The Bible gives many more signs than the few posted here. Like the Jews being returned to Israel, and the days being like that of the days of sodom and gomorrah, the world being turned upside down, people accepting what is wrong as being right, and trading the truth for a lie. These are some of the things we can easily see happening now.

As far as being caught up, I would assume our souls will leave our bodies, and we will all be taken up to be with the Lord forever. As far as watching armageddon I have no idea how that will take place.

 

GraftMeIn · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by The Bible is Right
be ready, be ready, be ready because the Lord will come at a time when you think not!

Luke 21:36 "Watch".  Mark 13:35-37 "Watch". Matt.25:13 "Watch"

Live your life as if the Lord is coming today! [/B]

Yes we should always be ready! We have no idea when the Lord will return for us. It could happen at any moment.

 

GraftMeIn · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by Frank
So staying busy and doing the Lord's work will make you instantly aware of the resurrection taking place, or Christ coming as a thief?  You still didn't address my question.  A good thief comes and leaves without anyone noticing...if that's how the return of Christ is suppose to be, because that's what the Bible says, how will YOU, know when He returns?

It's true a good thief can break in without anyone noticing. But eventually someone will notice that the thief has been there, and taken something.

Tallyn · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by GraftMeIn

Revelation 8:7 -12
8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 
[/B]

Whoah...this is quite a calamity. I mean, amongst:
Hail of fire and blood
Massive forest fires
Volcanos turning water into blood
1/3 of sea creatures becoming extinct
1/3 of our ships being destroyed
1/3 part of our water supply being destroyed by..
A star named Wormwood plummetting to earth
1/3 of our sun, moon, and stars being darkened

It seems like there is more of a chance of a christian dying in calamity before Christ comes.

Tallyn

ladylove · Sep 18, 2002

Tallyn,

No, no, what Graft quotes are events from the Day of the Lord. God's wrath is not poured out on Christians, but only the unrepentant. Christians are not appointed to this judgment, but only to the tribulation so that the Church can be separated from those that are wheat and those that are tares. These events are separate. A lot of people get these two events confused.

GraftMeIn · Sep 18, 2002

Originally posted by Tallyn
Whoah...this is quite a calamity. I mean, amongst:
Hail of fire and blood
Massive forest fires
Volcanos turning water into blood
1/3 of sea creatures becoming extinct
1/3 of our ships being destroyed
1/3 part of our water supply being destroyed by..
A star named Wormwood plummetting to earth
1/3 of our sun, moon, and stars being darkened

It seems like there is more of a chance of a christian dying in calamity before Christ comes.

Tallyn

Christians don't need to worry about such things if they are right with the Lord. He will place his mark on our forheads. (not to be confused with the mark of the beast)

Revelations 7:2-3

7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelations 9:1-4
9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

 

 

Tallyn · Sep 18, 2002

I'm really confused now.   I keep hearing different things.

I originally asked for signs preceeding the rapture of the church (resurrection) so I'd know what to look for.

Some signs were quoted to me, but now some people are saying that these aren't signs preceeding the rapture but rather signs of final judgement.

I realize that Christians will not pass into judgement so I really have nothing to worry about, but I'd still like some definite signs that preceed the resurrection.

Tallyn

ladylove · Sep 18, 2002

Tallyn,

It is obvious you are new to the study of prophecy, at least to me. People are at different levels of understanding for various reasons. I could tell you that I have the truth and then someone else could come along and say, no, I have the truth. It is imperative that you study for yourself and compare what people say to the truths of Scripture and make your own decision as to whom you tend to agree with, this area of eschatology is a in-house debate among many well-meaning Chrisitians none of which have all the truth, for if we did, we would not be here and the millenial kingdom would be here by now. So, study diligently and come to your own biblical conculsions.

Tallyn · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Tallyn,
It is obvious you are new to the study of prophecy, at least to me. People are at different levels of understanding for various reasons. I could tell you that I have the truth and then someone else could come along and say, no, I have the truth. It is imperative that you study for yourself and compare what people say to the truths of Scripture and make your own decision as to whom you tend to agree with, this area of eschatology is a in-house debate among many well-meaning Chrisitians none of which have all the truth, for if we did, we would not be here and the millenial kingdom would be here by now. So, study diligently and come to your own biblical conculsions.

That obvious? Actually, I am quite familiar with prophecy.
If you go back and read my original question I was actually asking GraftMeIn for some specifics of how he thought the resurrection would take place...and the signs which would accompany it.

My thoughts and comments (which may have seen amatuer to you) were actually directed towards GraftMeIn to help me clarify his interpretations

I agree, as evidenced by this thread there are many Christians who disagree on eschatology...but thats okay.

Tallyn

Chloe · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Tallyn,

No, no, what Graft quotes are events from the Day of the Lord. God's wrath is not poured out on Christians, but only the unrepentant. Christians are not appointed to this judgment, but only to the tribulation so that the Church can be separated from those that are wheat and those that are tares. These events are separate. A lot of people get these two events confused.

 

What has made you believe that these 2 events are seperate and that the tribulation is satan's wrath?

 

ladylove · Sep 19, 2002

It is obvious, do you not read Scripture?

postrib · Sep 19, 2002

...We have no idea when the Lord will return for us. It could happen at any moment...

I don't believe the Bible says that Jesus can come to gather us together at any moment, but says the opposite (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, compare Matthew 24:29-31).

Chloe · Sep 19, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
It is obvious, do you not read Scripture?

 

Can't you just answer the question instead of coming off as rude and full of pride?

Just an insteresting scripture

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