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Just an insteresting scripture

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by GraftMeIn, Sep 8, 2002.

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  1. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    Just found this scripture interesting, especially verses 17, and 18. I thought it would be fitting for this forum.

    2 Timothy 2 :16-19
    16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
    17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
    18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
    19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

    I pray that any who hold to the teachings of Hymenaeus and Philetus, will open their eyes and see the truth.


    I also pray that those who come accross those trying to teach others the teachings of Hymenaeus and Philetus will stand firm truth.

     
     
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  2. Pericles

    Pericles Christian

    428
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    Christian
    GraftMeIn,

    I agree. We should all pray for people that have the wrong idea about the nature of the resurrection, just as we should all pray for the people that put their personal beliefs above the Word of God and Scripture:

    "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes" - Matthew 10:23

    "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" - Matthew 16:28

    "And he answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist" - Matthew 17:11-13

    "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place" - Revelation 1:1

    "And he said to me, These words are faithful and true; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place" - Revelation 22:6
     
  3. armothe

    armothe Living in HIS kingdom...

    977
    +18
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    US-Constitution
    Yes, Hymenaeus and Philetus were quite premature in saying that it had already taken place.

    However, I submit: When will it be okay to say the ressurection has taken place?

    I mean, won't there always be someone who quotes the passage above in response to someone who says its happened (or currently happening)

    -A
     
  4. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    I'm sure that when it does take place, there will be no doubt in the mind of anyone as to what has happened.

     
     
  5. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    Christian
    That is a good thought, but what will it take for everyone to have absolutely no doubts whatsoever?

    Tallyn
     
  6. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    Christs return
     
  7. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    I thought the resurrection is supposed to take place years before the actual return of Christ...so the question still remains: "What will it take for someone to believe WITHOUT A DOUBT that the resurrection did not yet take place?"

    The fact that Hymenaeus and Philetus were able to mislead people into thinking that resurrection was past can only be explained by either

    1.  The people that Hymenaeus and Philetus misled were really really stupid or

    2.  All christians in the first century did NOT expect a bodily, physical resurrection of the believers

    In Philippians 3, Paul says: "...in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it...brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet".  How could Paul possibly write that if they all expected a bodily resurrection?  Doesn't it go without saying?  He was physically alive when he was writing these words, yet he has to specifically tell them "I did not yet experience the resurrection".
     
  8. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    Frank,
    No one knows the day or hour it will take place. but I'm sure that on the day of judgement there will be no doubt in anyones mind, and no one will question it. If it had already taken place then we would not be here right now talking about it. :)
     
  9. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    GMI,

    I think you might be mising the point of the question.

    When the resurrection is finally past, will it be ok to say so? or will it always be blasphemous?

    LD
     
  10. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    I think when the resurrection happens everyone will be too busy praising God to even worry about such things.
     
  11. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    Christian
    Please explain how you think the resurrection will take place. This might help me understand your point further.

    Tallyn
     
  12. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    Luke 21:25-28

    21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    1 Theselonians 4:16-18

    4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
     
  13. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

    101
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    So you are saying it will be OK to say "The resurrection is past" once it is actually past, because no one will be worrying about if it is blasphemous or not to say so?
     
  14. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    I don't see why it wouldn't be ok.
     
  15. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    Christian
    Okay, but what sort of signs? I mean, we have eclipses and falling stars and such already. Anything more specific?

    To what degree though? I mean, aren't many nations distressed today? Thoughts?

    I think this already happens. 
     
    I do not grasp this verse. It seems like the kingdom of heaven, wherever it exists, shakes violently; causing all mankind on earth to quake with fear. I'm not sure how this specifically will happen, so I'm not sure what to look for.

    This is good and all, but it seems like the Lord will come before you can even recognize the signs of his coming.
    Also, can someone explain to me about being caught up into the clouds and the air? I mean, do we sit on the clouds and watch armageddon go down? Or do we just pass through them on our way to Heaven...which....would seem like it exists in sub-space or outer-space somewhere.

    I appreciate the verses but am looking more for specific insights as to what the mean.

    Tallyn
     
  16. When trying to understand actual signs, no one will ever understand them, because like you said already all of these things have taken place over and over again.  But you have answered your own question, that's in bold writing, be ready, be ready, be ready because the Lord will come at a time when you think not!

    Luke 21:36 "Watch".  Mark 13:35-37 "Watch". Matt.25:13 "Watch"

    Live your life as if the Lord is coming today!
     
  17. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    Christian

    If that is the case, then why are there signs associated with His second coming? I mean, if it's really too late by the time we notice them, whats the point?

    Also, I was told that "watch" was in reference to watching for the signs of His coming....not necessarily watching Him come out of the clouds.

    Tallyn
     
  18. We are to be working in the vineyard of the Lord, that mean's if we're busy doing the Fater's will, we don't have to worry about signs. :) :)

    Please read 2 Peter 3:1-18 this might help you understand our part in the final days.
     
  19. Frank

    Frank New Member

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    I've been following this thread for a while, and I gotta tell you, that is a pretty weak answer... signs and prophecy are given for a reason, and it may come as a shock to you, they ARE relevant.  That is why Jesus spends a whole chapter in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 giving the disciples signs of His return.  If they are so useless then God is a terrible God, playing tricks on us, a god that is no better than the greek gods that used humans for their pleasures and entertainment.

    By asking him to read 2 Peter 3, you are showing how much you are ignoring the very passage that you are asking him to read. If "the day of the Lord will come like a thief", how exactly will you know that it comes if the signs don't matter?  A thief comes, does his business, then leaves without anyone noticing.  How will you know when the Day of the Lord came and is past if it comes like a thief?
     
  20. You say "weak answer" but if you have been following the thread for a while you would have notice the post prior to the one you have just made the "weak answer" conment.  I said the purpose is to be Ready by staying busy doing the Lord's work, so if you're going to follow, make sure, that you follow close enough to know what someone else is saying.
     
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