just a quick question

cyberlizard said:

it's also true that some of the dumbest people believe in evolution because they have not been taught to think any other way.

Steve

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Sure. As the graph shows, and as you noted earlier, even some of the most educated people don't believe in evolution. And yet, since you're the one who brought up statistics, the statistics clearly show that one's acceptance of evolution is strongly correlated with their level of education.

cyberlizard said:

care to elaborate (with sources)

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Sure, here is a good place to start, so you can get the general idea:

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Bible-Science/6-02Watts.html

You can ask any expert in the ANE and they will agree that at that time, people did not write about such past events as the creation or other epic events with something as mundane or prosaic as mere literal narrative. It was simply not how they conveyed the truths about such events. The mechanics and exact timing were considered of little to no importance, but the agent and the purpose were incredibly important. So, they wrote powerful and evocative accounts that gave us the WHO and WHY, without any attempt to be strictly literal about the WHEN and HOW. If you asked them whether it was "true", they would say "of course". If you asked whether God created over six 24-hour periods, etc, they would look at you a bit odd and ask why that mattered. Read the article above and you can get an idea of what I am talking about.

Now, later writings, like Numbers, as was mentioned, are a VERY different type of literature, and the Chronicles is yet another type, and Luke is yet another type. All methods of describing the past, but with differing approaches and expectations by the original writer and reader.

cyberlizard said:

stupidity is also a statistical fact

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Statistics show that half of Americans have an IQ of less than 100.

This cannot be tolerated any longer.

juvenissun said:

They have to say that in order to survive. It is easy to see.

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So you think that one of the most well respected Christian universities in the nation is lying in order to survive? That they would release a statement they do not believe in just to be able to continue teaching? Personally, I would have no respect for liars like that. Good thing you're wrong, though. It's pretty obvious that they support evolution because it's the best scientific theory that explains the diversity of life.

Of course, this corresponds highly with the graphs posted, education increases the likelihood of accepting evolution, and science in general.

Right, RandomGuy, the proposal that all of those Christians who are real scientists are just lying when they say they accept evolution, and that they all secretly believe in young earth creationism, is a pretty strange position to take.

Vance said:

Right, RandomGuy, the proposal that all of those Christians who are real scientists are just lying when they say they accept evolution, and that they all secretly believe in young earth creationism, is a pretty strange position to take.

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"Well, since I'm always right, anybody who disagrees with me has got to be wrong somehow ... "

random_guy said:

So you think that one of the most well respected Christian universities in the nation is lying in order to survive? That they would release a statement they do not believe in just to be able to continue teaching? Personally, I would have no respect for liars like that. Good thing you're wrong, though. It's pretty obvious that they support evolution because it's the best scientific theory that explains the diversity of life.

Of course, this corresponds highly with the graphs posted, education increases the likelihood of accepting evolution, and science in general.

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Again, they (science departments) claimed that they support evolution BECAUSE if they don't, they will collapse. That is an unfortunate fact. They are in a research university (Christian or not) , not in a seminary.

However, this may not apply to individual faculty in the departments. For example, I do not believe in evolution. But I keep my mouth shut in school.

juvenissun said:

Again, they (science departments) claimed that they support evolution BECAUSE if they don't, they will collapse. That is an unfortunate fact. They are in a research university (Christian or not) , not in a seminary.

However, this may not apply to individual faculty in the departments. For example, I do not believe in evolution. But I keep my mouth shut in school.

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Thankfully, there is no need to believe in evolution - since the evidence for evolution from many different scientific disciplines is overwhelming.

juvenissun said:

They have to say that in order to survive. It is easy to see.

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Yet you'd think all those research grants from biotech and oil companies would dry up when they realised that the research was all a pack of lies. Becasue where the rubber hits the road, lies soon get found out, unfortunately for Creationists.

juvenissun said:

Again, they (science departments) claimed that they support evolution BECAUSE if they don't, they will collapse. That is an unfortunate fact.

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What complete rubbish. Biology departments support evolution because it is excellent science, and integral to much of what they do. This kind of conspiracy-mongering is just nuts.

However, this may not apply to individual faculty in the departments. For example, I do not believe in evolution. But I keep my mouth shut in school.

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But you don't seem to know anything about evolution, or have any kind of coherent alternative explanation for all of the evidence. Where do you teach? How many biologists there have you talked to about evolution?

Look at all the uses of evolution:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=47

Not only is evolution well evidenced, it is used everyday in industry.

Also, the sciences that also support biology, are used everyday for example - geology. The oil and gas companies use geology (age of the earth, etc.) to find petroleum reserves. They make huge amounts of money - obviously the theory of evolution and the overwhelming amount of evidence in support of it is not only correct but makes companies (and individuals) lots of money.