Just a quick question for law proponents.

[Lysimachus]

do u mean the law where sin had dominiom? Rom 6;14.

Sin only has dominion over you when the law is violated. In the Spirit, however, you have power to live a righteous life, which brings you into harmony with the law.

Next verse:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And sin is the transgression of "THE law" (1 John 3:4)



You can only be "under grace" if you are not sinning. And sinning means to break (transgress) the law.

It's simple as pie.

 

[Frogster]

Sin only has dominion over you when the law is violated. In the Spirit, however, you have power to live a righteous life, which brings you into harmony with the law.

Next verse:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And sin is the transgression of "THE law" (1 John 3:4)



You can only be "under grace" if you are not sinning. And sinning means to break (transgress) the law.

It's simple as pie.

but why does it say, sin has dominion under law? So what happens if we get under law?


And why is sin dead, apart from law?

dude...

 

[Frogster]

Sin only has dominion over you when the law is violated. In the Spirit, however, you have power to live a righteous life, which brings you into harmony with the law.

Next verse:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And sin is the transgression of "THE law" (1 John 3:4)



You can only be "under grace" if you are not sinning. And sinning means to break (transgress) the law.

It's simple as pie.

lol..but in 6, the answer was not law, was it?..Read 6;14, then we can talk. Was the answer law in 6? Sinfiul passions arouse law, as per 7.

 

[Lysimachus]

lol..but in 6, the answer was not law, was it?..Read 6;14, then we can talk. Was the answer law in 6? Sinfiul passions arouse law, as per 7.

Read the context:

Romans
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.​

Then notice the last verse of chapter 7:

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

The Ten Commandments are not "sin". What is sin is violating them. The law of sin is the law in your members that violates the righteous law. When you are violating them, that brings you "UNDER" the law. UNDER its condemnation.

But if you are in the Spirit, your old man is dead to sin. When you present a set of keys to a dead man to try and tempt him to steal the Mercedes that is parked in the parking lot, the dead man has no reaction, and does not react. He's dead. Your old man is dead, but now you are living your new life in the Spirit and this is the life that is under Grace.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

but why does it say, sin has dominion under law? So what happens if we get under law?


And why is sin dead, apart from law?

dude...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825-42/#post52939763
Book of Romans chapt 6

Romans 6:14 for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? let it not be!
16 have ye not known that to whom ye present yourselves servants for obedience, servants ye are to him to whom ye obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

 

[Lysimachus]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825-42/#post52939763
Book of Romans chapt 6

Romans 6:14 for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? let it not be!
16 have ye not known that to whom ye present yourselves servants for obedience, servants ye are to him to whom ye obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

LittleLambofJesus,

If I really wanted to, I could go crazy over the Greek language in my presentation of the scriptures. But God has taught me a lot over the years, and I've learned that we need to try and keep the gospel as simple as possible, and avoid confusing people. The Holy Spirit has guided many of the translators to portray the meaning He intended, and if you are not careful, you can end up rewriting the entire text to make it say something entirely different than what it said in plain English.

So my encouragement to you is to not overwhelm the reader by throwing all kinds of colorful Greek words every other word in a text.

Also, just a little suggestion: You might not want to flood your viewers with so many images and flash. Kind of hard on the eyes, especially because they are so big, and makes me feel like the thread is "cluttered". I like posts and threads nice and clean--feels more professional and refreshing.

It's up to you, but just an idea. ;-)

 

[Frogster]

Read the context:

Romans
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.​

Then notice the last verse of chapter 7:

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

The Ten Commandments are not "sin". What is sin is violating them. The law of sin is the law in your members that violates the righteous law. When you are violating them, that brings you "UNDER" the law. UNDER its condemnation.

But if you are in the Spirit, your old man is dead to sin. When you present a set of keys to a dead man to try and tempt him to steal the Mercedes that is parked in the parking lot, the dead man has no reaction, and does not react. He's dead. Your old man is dead, but now you are living your new life in the Spirit and this is the life that is under Grace.

Excuse me, but you're ignoring the whole point to the chapters.



What your ignoring is in 6, the power over sin, was the cross, and resurrection not law, and 6;14 teaches that if they are under law, sin would have dominion. FACT.


Why does it say, in 5;20? THE LAW WAS ADDED TO INCREASE, THE TRESPASS? Look how he expalains sin, aroused by law, or through law, to prove 5;20.



And try as you will, the whole point of 7 was he died to the law . 7;4, he was released from law in 7;6, and the law aroused sin, lookie here, 5;20 in action...

7;5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6But


sooooooo...lets go by the whole of the chapter please. Did you read my prooftexting Paul thread? I would advise it.

 

[Frogster]

Read the context:

Romans
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.​

Then notice the last verse of chapter 7:

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

The Ten Commandments are not "sin". What is sin is violating them. The law of sin is the law in your members that violates the righteous law. When you are violating them, that brings you "UNDER" the law. UNDER its condemnation.
But if you are in the Spirit, your old man is dead to sin. When you present a set of keys to a dead man to try and tempt him to steal the Mercedes that is parked in the parking lot, the dead man has no reaction, and does not react. He's dead. Your old man is dead, but now you are living your new life in the Spirit and this is the life that is under Grace.

it is not just 7 the condemnation, 6 and 7 deal with the power of sin, slavery words are used.

just answer this, why is sin dead apart from law? and was paul talking about the power of sin and law in 7, or just condemnation, when he spoke of LUST AT WORK IN HIM?

 

[James 75]

it is not just 7 the condemnation, 6 and 7 deal with the power of sin, slavery words are used.

just answer this, why is sin dead apart from law? and was paul talking about the power of sin and law in 7, or just condemnation, when he spoke of LUST AT WORK IN HIM?

Was Paul implying he needed to stop lusting?
Did Paul believe that coveting was a sin that we need to repent/change from doing?
Did Paul believe that the tenth commandment applies to christians?
Don't even start with your spin, the answer is yes.

 

[from scratch]

Sin only has dominion over you when the law is violated. In the Spirit, however, you have power to live a righteous life, which brings you into harmony with the law.

Next verse:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And sin is the transgression of "THE law" (1 John 3:4)



You can only be "under grace" if you are not sinning. And sinning means to break (transgress) the law.

It's simple as pie.

If you're not sinning you have no need of grace.

 

[Lysimachus]

If you're not sinning you have no need of grace.

That's right.

And once you have Grace, Christ has empowered you and given you the strength to no longer sin.

Don't forget Peter's words about how people wrest Paul's writings to their own destruction, and turn to a "lawless" life as a result.

Some things Paul writes are "hard to be understood...."

one more time....HARD....to be understood.

You want to twist his gospel into a lawless gospel, and that's exactly what Peter said people were guilty of doing.

Take it or leave it!

 

[Lysimachus]

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the LAWLESS and fall from your secure position." (2 Peter 3:15-17)​

 

[Lysimachus]

So according to Peter, Paul was not teaching lawless gospel.


...can't argue with that!

 

[from scratch]

Read the context:

Romans
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
​

Then notice the last verse of chapter 7:

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
​

The Ten Commandments are not "sin". What is sin is violating them. The law of sin is the law in your members that violates the righteous law. When you are violating them, that brings you "UNDER" the law. UNDER its condemnation.

But if you are in the Spirit, your old man is dead to sin. When you present a set of keys to a dead man to try and tempt him to steal the Mercedes that is parked in the parking lot, the dead man has no reaction, and does not react. He's dead. Your old man is dead, but now you are living your new life in the Spirit and this is the life that is under Grace.

Well might as well contribute to the hummor here. I guess what is being said above is that we only have to serve God with our minds and it doesn't matter what the body does. So what are people hollarin bout? Sounds perfectly pleasing to me. Serve God in thought. way

 

[from scratch]

LittleLambofJesus,

If I really wanted to, I could go crazy over the Greek language in my presentation of the scriptures. But God has taught me a lot over the years, and I've learned that we need to try and keep the gospel as simple as possible, and avoid confusing people. The Holy Spirit has guided many of the translators to portray the meaning He intended, and if you are not careful, you can end up rewriting the entire text to make it say something entirely different than what it said in plain English.

So my encouragement to you is to not overwhelm the reader by throwing all kinds of colorful Greek words every other word in a text.

Also, just a little suggestion: You might not want to flood your viewers with so many images and flash. Kind of hard on the eyes, especially because they are so big, and makes me feel like the thread is "cluttered". I like posts and threads nice and clean--feels more professional and refreshing.

It's up to you, but just an idea. ;-)

No personality allowed either. We might offend someone.

 

[Nanopants]

Was Paul implying he needed to stop lusting?
Did Paul believe that coveting was a sin that we need to repent/change from doing?
Did Paul believe that the tenth commandment applies to christians?
Don't even start with your spin, the answer is yes.

Yes, yes and no. He just didn't believe that the law was the solution to the problem.

 

[from scratch]

That's right.

And once you have Grace, Christ has empowered you and given you the strength to no longer sin.

Don't forget Peter's words about how people wrest Paul's writings to their own destruction, and turn to a "lawless" life as a result.

Some things Paul writes are "hard to be understood...."

one more time....HARD....to be understood.

You want to twist his gospel into a lawless gospel, and that's exactly what Peter said people were guilty of doing.

Take it or leave it!

What difference does it make you just got done saying we serve God with our mind then sin with our bodies. A divided house can't stand. We know the flesh returns to dust and our breath goes to God and the soul disappers into nothingness. So the reality is that only air survives the demise of the body.

One should read the thread on death if they need some hoots. One should be in stiches.

 

[Nanopants]

You mean the same James who, at the same council, agreed with the Holy Spirit and the other Apostles that Gentiles should be required to abstain from fornication and eating blood?

We're not called to keep the law of Moses -- however, don't confuse the parts for the whole.

I don't see any reason to assume that this is a reiteration of the law, as if any part of the law still has jurisdiction over Christians. Don't the Roman Catholics see the Apostles as being lawgivers? At least that's what I believe, I just wouldn't agree that this capacity is limited to the original Apostles or any one individual at a time.

 

[from scratch]

Was Paul implying he needed to stop lusting?

A Christian has a problem with this? Why?

Did Paul believe that coveting was a sin that we need to repent/change from doing?
Did Paul believe that the tenth commandment applies to christians?

I wonder if ........

Don't even start with your spin, the answer is yes.

Isn't this Wheel of Fortune? They have a couple spinners.

 

[Lysimachus]

What difference does it make you just got done saying we serve God with our mind tha t sine with our bodies. A difivided hous can't stand. We know the flesh returns to dus and our breath goes to God and eht soul disappers into nothingness. So the reality is that only air survives the demise of the body.

One should read the thread on death if they need some hoots. One should be in stiches.

If you serve with your mind, it will show in your actions. Try not to squeeze blood out of a turnip. James 2 might help to clarify how this works if you're interested in learning what he says.