Just a quick question for law proponents.

[Frogster]

You are basing your entire theology on your English interpretation of the word "ordinance" instead of seeing Scripture, and even that verse as a whole. The verse plainly says certificate of debt and again the word "ordinances" is from the Greek word dogma which I've been over way too many times already---NEVER in reference to G-d's ANYTHING--not His ordinances, not His decrees, not His Laws, not His commandments--none of that. So you see Colosians 2:14 is not at ALL saying that G-d's Holy Laws are against us--and therefore needed to be nailed to the cross.
Even the phrase "G-d's Holy Law is against us" is not according to Scriptures. Compare that statement with Deuteronomy 30:11, or 1 John 5:3.

So before you even get to trying to divide G-d's law even further into ceremonial and moral---please be advised that the subject in Colossians 2:14 is not His Laws and Instructions and Ordinances AT ALL.

the thing you omit, is that we were dead in these ordinances, and had to be forgiven of them, so the context proves, it was not just ceremonial.

swoooooshh..

 

[from scratch]

Have you ever been on Staff? I have

No but I have had my suspicions do to dealing with such. I have enough sense that I turned down such an offer. The way things are I simply can't and won't accept such an offer. No offense to the staff is intended. One of the issues in my life is who I wish to be identified with and the issues I would take on that don't belong to me.

 

[Frogster]

You're certainly not proving it when you say "I saw ordinance in the verse..therefore it must be talking about G-d's ordinances, which automatically mean that it's His Holy Law that is against us."
I am simply telling you that if you were to study the passage and the verse you'd see that it's not even close to talking about G-d's Laws, being against us, and being nailed to the cross.

"G-d the Father's Holy Laws and Instructions are against us, for that reason G-d the Son came to die and nail G-d the Father's Holy Laws and Instructions to the cross." Absolutely false.

here, read the twin epistle, as it is called..

eph 2;15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

 

[from scratch]

In this case Frogster's wisdom comes from age which includes esperience.

 

[Frogster]

But we are not talking about the written code--the handwriting of ordinances.

The issue of contention is primarily over God's Moral Law in heaven, the Ten Commandments. The striving and contentions that Paul in Titus is talking about is referring to the ceremonial ordinances, such as circumcision, feast keeping, etc.

Everyone already knew the Ten Commandments were basic. That was not even an issue of contention or striving---and no wonder the Jews were never concerned about Paul once breaking the Sabbath. They were always concerned that he was not performing circumcision or some of the other Old Testament sacred rites.

were we dead in ceremonies? so to be made alive, after being forgiven, was contextually about ceremonies?

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

sorry..but pay attention to the WITH...

if go with you to the store, that meas we wnet to the same destination.
and yes, they were HOSTILE..TO US..

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

English Standard Version (©2001)
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

We need to create a thread on that verse

http://www.christianforums.com/t7613900-5/#post59277105

Originally Posted by from scratch Aren't those ordinances nailed to the cross? Col 2:14.

Ya mean the verse/pic in my Siggy

[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t7238619-3/#post47139645"]http://www.christianforums.com/t7238619-3/#post47139645[/URL]
The Scroll, the Serpent, the Law and our Salvation

Coloss 2:14 Blotting out the against us handwriting to the decrees which was hostile to us,
And has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the stauros

Textus Rec.) Colossians 2:14 exaleiyaV to kaq hmwn ceirografon toiV dogmasin o hn upenantion hmin kai auto hrken ek tou mesou proshlwsaV auto tw staurw

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In this case Frogster's wisdom comes from age which includes esperience.

And where does yours come from?

 

[Frogster]

You could argue and say that even the laws of love to God and your neighbor were "codified". In fact, every single law was codified, even the laws of Jesus were codified by the Apostles on paper. So why not blot out ALL of what Jesus said? because the apostles codified it. I hope you are getting my point.

The Ten Commandments, however, although were codified, were only copied down. But you can burn up the paper, and the Ten Commandments still stand. Yes, they were handwritten in the sense that they had to be copied down. Had Moses not written the Ten Commandments on paper, we'd never know what the Ten Commandments said. We would have to find the actual tables, and everyone would have to run to the museum to read the tables for themselves, and then of course they'd need a translator.

The point is, the "expression", "written code", "handwriting of ordinances", etc., was the term employed regarding the Mosaic Laws that were given exclusively to Moses and then for Moses to pass the word along. Among this written code were specifically the "ordinances" that pertained to the sanctuary services.

May we never forget, the Sanctuary on earth is a pattern or shadow of the one in heaven.

Thus we cannot rightly say that the Law in Heaven has been abolished. Only that which is contained in ordinances.

In fact, I think you will be hard-pressed to find anywhere in scriptures where the Sabbath is an ordinance. I have not found the evidence so far.

I did find this however:

"Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual showbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel." (2 Chron. 2:4)​

The text seems to suggest that it is the giving of sweet incense and burnt offerings that are ordinances held on these solemn days. Sacrifices were also called ordinances in other places.

Now there are exceptions to the rule where the term "ordinance" can be used to represent God's entire law, but in a general sense, the term "ordinance/s" is referring to the sacred festivals, offerings, and sacrifices.

like i told ya, then 10 had to be in the book of the law, or contextually, Jesus only redeemed us from ceremonies.


10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."[d] 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"—

 

[Frogster]

You're certainly not proving it when you say "I saw ordinance in the verse..therefore it must be talking about G-d's ordinances, which automatically mean that it's His Holy Law that is against us."
I am simply telling you that if you were to study the passage and the verse you'd see that it's not even close to talking about G-d's Laws, being against us, and being nailed to the cross.

"G-d the Father's Holy Laws and Instructions are against us, for that reason G-d the Son came to die and nail G-d the Father's Holy Laws and Instructions to the cross." Absolutely false.

let me just settle something ONCE FOR ALL...

WHY DOES PAUL SAY, THE LAW WAS ADDED TO INCREASE THE TRESPASS IN ROM 5;20???

WHY??

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

were we dead in ceremonies? so to be made alive, after being forgiven, was contextually about ceremonies?

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Get 'em froggy!

 

[from scratch]

And where does yours come from?

The same. Er well I can't really say that. I have to clearly give credit to God for such. I asked for it and received it. I have argued with ministers for 45 years and did the same as you see me do here. I don't always show great wisdom in communication. That comes with experience and have noticed a markable change in the last year. BTW I still get the left hand of fellowship from ministers if that is what you call the person delivering the homily or sermon from the bully pulpit upto 3 times a week.

 

[Frogster]

I'm tired LittleLambOfJesus. Need a rest.

Must get some work done, or I will go broke lol.

oh..ok..

But when you return....

we got rom 5;20, the law was added to increase sin.

we got 1 cor 15;56, the power of sin is the law.

we got rom 7;8, why was sin dead, PART FROM LAW?

we got 7;5, law aroused sin.

we got 7;9, and how after the command came, after...sin was revived.

we got 7;11 and how sin used the command...:blush:

dude, you can type up a whole page, but really, the facts stand, we all know the holy law, was added to show sin, arouse sin, and kill.

rest up...

 

[from scratch]

Hey de race and contest is on to see who gets to greet our favorite unreportable poster Christ Bot. Has anyone ever reported him? Prolly wouldn't admit such. Maybe a mod could say. I'd love to read a list of the silly reporting. I think it would be charming.[

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

let me just settle something ONCE FOR ALL...

WHY DOES PAUL SAY, THE LAW WAS ADDED TO INCREASE THE TRESPASS IN ROM 5;20???

WHY??

Seems as if I saw that explained on this other thread where you and from scratch were active

http://www.christianforums.com/t7598170/
The Law Was Set Aside At The Cross , So Where Did Grace Begin ??

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey de race and contest is on to see who gets to greet our favorite unreportable poster Christ Bot. Has anyone ever reported him? Prolly wouldn't admit such. Maybe a mod could say. I'd love to read a list of the silly reporting. I think it would be charming.

Let's see.....
Report him when he shows up ehehe

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ChrisBot is slow today

 

[ChrisBot]

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