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Just a quick question for law proponents.

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Frogster

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If one blows it under law, and condemns himself for the "slip up".
Sort of like if our puppy makes a mistake on the rug.

Who gets the credit, when one has a "good day" the under law?



Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
 

James 75

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You seem to have all the same misconceptions about the law that the Pharisees had during Christ's time.

By the way, what is the under law?

I know something about God's laws but I've never heard of that one.

People who follow God's laws and ways don't boast, except about Christ.

That would go against God's law.
 
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tzadik

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Money in the bank James

Wrong interpretation of the term 'under the law' is one of the main reasons why many condemn the Law of G-d or limit the Law of G-d as something useless...

If keeping the Holy Torah of G-d is a delight and a blessing...
"being 'under the law' must NOT mean to keep the Holy Torah of G-d As simple as that.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Then there are these type of Torah keepers

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Romans 2:23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.
[Psalm 74:10]

Reve 16:11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them,
and not they reform out of the works of them
 
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I wonder why that is? You have been reading these forums where such has been referenced a lot. Maybe you haven't read the whole Bible.

One could use the online cordances to easily collect those verses with the phrase under law or under the law in them. I don't think you have much interest in the truth to be frank.
 
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I could c&p a definition of under, but need you to do so. Then we could discuss the phrase - under the law.
 
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DamianWarS

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Romans 3:27 is saying that our "works" do not give us the right to boast. It is only faith in Christ that saves us and only through him do we have a right to boast but the boasting goes to God not to us. This means that if you have a "good day" then give glory to God because you are save by his grace and your "good day" is not what determines your role in Christ. Likewise if you have a "bad day" give glory to God because you are save by his grace and your "bad day" is not what determines your role in Christ.

However "good day under the law" do not contribute to our position in grace and it is what this passage is speaking against. Perhaps I misunderstand the question but we do not have to wait for "good days" to happen so we are worthy of giving glory to God. Divorce this concept that grace is about good and bad days. No matter what position we may think we are in, embrace forgiveness through grace in Jesus Christ, give glory to God, and seek his will and that's all you have to worry about.
 
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Frogster

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Under law is pretty funky, by definition, it would be under the power of sin, or living in an expired era, or living under condemantion, or living in an immature childlike mode in elementalism etc.

How am I worng though?

If one feels condemend not meeting the law on Monday, but then me does it on Tueaday, wouldn't the law of opposites dictate that, that person has to feel like "he" achieved it, and have a built in boast mechanism with it?

I don't mean you, just presenting a truth.
 
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2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 16Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Mat 6

Jus in cases more need to be said on the subject. Consider this -
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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tzadik

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I could c&p a definition of under, but need you to do so. Then we could discuss the phrase - under the law.

So you agree with Frogster and think that the term 'under the law' as referenced throughout Romans and Galatians is in reference to everyone who is obedient to the Holy Torah of G-d?

So to make this discussion crystal clear - you believe that everyone (Jew or Gentile believers) who obey the Torah of G-d (after salvation) are 'under the law' and not 'under grace'... si?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by James 75
You seem to have all the same misconceptions about the law that the Pharisees had during Christ's time.

By the way, what is the under law?
Tis true

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
"under" AND "law"
occurs in 13 verses in the YLT, including 8 exact phrases shown first.
Page 1 / 1
exact phrases (Rom 6:14 - Gal 5:18)
remaining matches (Num 5:29 - Hbr 7:11)
 
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Frogster

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the thing is...

They were desiring to be under the law, and the defintion in chapter 4, and in 5;3, about a yoke of bondage, severed from Christ, would indeed prove to be rather horrifying.


4;21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Remember my Galations verse by verse thread?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411599-17/#post53521315
Book of Galations Chapter 4

Young) Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye who are willing to be under law, the law do ye not hear?

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Galatians 4:21 legete moi oi upo nomon qelonteV einai ton nomon ouk akouete
 
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Frogster

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I understand, yes, we don't get chucked out of the second Adam, if we have a bad day

I am talking about the internals of law life, those under that principle, by rule, must feel proud on the "good day", because they feel condemned on the bad day, in an achievement orientated existence.
 
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Frogster

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Say, just out of curiousity. Why is there so little NT theology you can post, without plucking a verse here or there to support Gentiles living under law, and in a sense, "becoming Jewish", trying to keep festivals that they never even kept 2000 years ago, and food laws that they never listened to, 2000 years ago?

And as far as morals, can you post 1 NT verse, to show how law stops sin in the heart? I ask because all the evidence posted by scrath and myself, shows all the opposite to what you say.

Try to see the scriptures as a narrative, the Torah was just the beginning, like the movie analogy we spoke of, ya gotta see the end of the movie, to get the whole story.
 
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tzadik

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So what you are saying then is that everyone who obeys and keeps the Torah of G-d is “under the law” and therefore not “under grace”?
If this argument is true then:
2 Kings 10:31 said:
”But Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart; he did not depart from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel sin.”
Jehu did not keep the Torah of G-d, therefore he must’ve been “under grace”

1 Chronicles 22:12 said:
"Only the LORD give you discretion and understanding, and give you charge over Israel, so that you may keep the law of the LORD your God.”
Everyone that the L-rd gave discretion and understanding to give charge over Israel, would’ve not been ‘under grace’, if they kept the Torah of G-d.
2 Chronicles 12:1 said:
“When the kingdom of Rehoboam was established and strong, he and all Israel with him forsook the law of the LORD.”
The whole kingdom of Rehoboam forsook the Torah of G-d and did no longer keep them, therefore they must’ve been “under grace”
2Chronicles 31:4 said:
“Also he commanded the people who lived in Jerusalem to give the portion due to the priests and the Levites, that they might devote themselves to the law of the LORD.”
All the people living in Jerusalem that devoted themselves to the Torah of G-d, were not “under grace”
Ezra 7:10 said:
“For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the LORD and to practice it, and to teach His statutes and ordinances in Israel.”
Ezra set his heart to not only study Torah, but to practice and teach it; he definitely was not “under grace”.
All of those who read and kept the feasts of the L-rd according to the Torah were definitely not “under grace”
Psalm 1:2 said:
“But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.”
What in the world is David purporting here? He is telling us to delight in the Torah of G-d. Doesn’t He know that to do that would be to “not be under grace”??
Psalm 119:1 said:
How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the LORD.”
David’s at it again. Why would I want to walk in the Torah of G-d, if it would mean that I would “not be under grace???”
Those who have rejected the Torah of the L-rd or hosts, must’ve been “under grace”.

Couple of “NT ones”

Romans 7:22 said:
“For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,”
Why is Paul joyfully concur with something that would = “not under grace?”
“Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.” Worse, serve something that would put him “not under grace”.

Just letting Scripture prove Scripture.
 
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Frogster

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as usaul, you can't post scenes from the end of the movie.

ok now, lets try to see, all were in adam, and the REIGN of grace, the era of grace, did NOT come until the act of the second adam, unless you think they were pruged of sin, before the cross. Look at five, and look at the word "one", and u will see the point. They were all in the reign of death, not grace.


5;1414Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18Therefore, as one trespass[e] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[f] leads to justification and life for all men. 19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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Frogster

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you're totally forgetting that 7 opened with died to law, released from WHAT BOUND, and the holy law aroused sin, so ye need not press your romans 7 citation the way you do. How much could he delight in what he died to. Who delights in their dead husband?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Genesis 3:24 And He is casting-out the 'adam,

Galatian 4:30 But what is saying the Scripture 'be Casting-Out/ekbale <1544> (5628) the maid-servant and the son of her, for not no shall be tenanting/inheriting the son of the maid-servant with the son of the free-one".

Reve 11:2 and the Court/Fold, the without/in of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out/ekbale <1544> (5628)! out-side,
and thou mayest not be measuring her, that she was given to the nations, and the holy city they shall be trampling forty and two months

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
 
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