This is my last reply to our conversation, because we are now entering into a debate format which is contrary to the Word of God.
May it be so...
Correction and rebuke are not contrary to the word of God, as seen in Jude.
Jude 1.3:
Beloved, while eagerly preparing to write to you about the salvation we share, I find it necessary to write and appeal to you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.
Romans 1:28-30
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Speaking of Romans 1:28
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Your point here is what? That you didn't read what you quoted?
Your inability to read and accept Gods Word? Again, I charge you to read all of Romans and answer your own questions.
Yeah, I agree with this. God does foreknow everything. I'm not limiting God's power to not foreknow anything at all. You are ignoring the fact that He chose the elect, He predestined the elect. He set aside who will be saved and who will not be saved.
But why does God select who He does??? THIS is what you are refusing to see!
There is no choice in that. In fact, let me give you an example that is entirely contrary to what you believe in:
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Where in the world is the choice these people have when God sends them a delusion so they will believe a lie? This destroys any notion of free-will anyone has in regards to salvation. You can cry "out of context" all you want, but I encourage everyone here to read this chapter.
Read verse 12, slowly. "That they might be damned WHO BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." There is no way you can miss the reference to the obvious choice made by these people! Read it again! It's so abundantly clear the only way you can miss it is if you want to!
And by the way, as far as context goes, you are way off beat here.
If you understood what Paul is addressing here I doubt you would have picked this chapter or even this book! What Paul is addressing in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 are people upsetting others about the day and time of Yeshuas' return, and warning us not to listen to them! Paul further states that these people are deceived by the evil one and this is why God sends the deceiving spirit!
Are you sure this is where you wanted to go with this?
God does not base His decision on the will of man because he foreknew. If that were the case, none of us would ever become saved:
Romans 3:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Read this carefully.
Verse 16: "So then it is NOT of him that willeth..."
Your free-will has nothing to do with salvation. The elect believe because God allowed them to believe, because God has chosen to show mercy.
Yes, but just a wee little bit earlier...
Romans 3:21-31,
But now, irrespective of law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to show his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of boasting? It is excluded. By what law? By that of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. NRSV
See how much better understood things are when you view them as a whole?
Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Where does it say the Bible must be translated into every language? It says it must be preached to everyone.
How can they understand if the truth is presented in a strange tongue?
You evaded my question. You did not account for all those people who did not have a chance to accept Christ according to their own free-will. In order for your soteriological doctrine to work, everyone must have an equal chance. Instead, you give me a snide comment.
Don't like it, do you? But yes, I gave an answer. I listed off books of the Bible where your answers are found. I didn't give you answers on a platter because if I did I doubt you would accept them.
The original topic was May 21st, 2011 being the rapture. So you're right, we did get sidetracked. For good reason though; its important to understand what the Word of God says about salvation. Yet, still, you evaded my question. I've answered your questions. Do you have an answer to these two?
Evasion is not something I do, I leave that up to you.
While we are on this subject, let's take a look at
2 Thessalonians Chapter 2.
As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God. Do you not remember that I told you these things when I was still with you? And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will destroy with the breath of his mouth, annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.
But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth. For this purpose he called you through our proclamation of the good news, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.
What does this mean to you or to Harold Camping?
So when you read all of Romans 3, tell me what verses 10 and 11 mean.
Besides being a quote from Psalm 14:1-3 and Psalm 53:1-3, Paul is teaching that no one has any right to claim righteousness. These verses should not be taken out of the whole of the letter, to do so invites humanist interpretation which takes Gods Word completely out of its original context.
Read Romans 10:13-15, friend. It is clear that we can not call on Him because we have not yet believed in Him.
Romans 10:14
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
