Juanita Bynum-pawn of Satan?

[AndrewK788]

I'm not that naive Night. I know there are plenty who still are incredibly racist. Unfortunately, a lot of those are even in my own conference (carolina). I was simply speaking for myself and giving the others on this forum the benefit of the doubt.

But since those involved in this discussion thus far are not racist/sexist, perhaps we can return to the original topic.

 

[Mankin]

The funny thing is Adventism attacks Catholics for holding tradition over Scipiture when they themselves DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING. They think anything that doesn't line up with their own tradition of preaching is blashphemous. And honestaly, I don't really care what they think. Let them stay in their mindset for all I care.

 

[Lebesgue]

The funny thing is Adventism attacks Catholics for holding tradition over Scipiture when they themselves DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING. They think anything that doesn't line up with their own tradition of preaching is blashphemous. And honestaly, I don't really care what they think. Let them stay in their mindset for all I care.

Amen! That is SO true.

It's like the pot calling the kettle "dirty".

 

[Mankin]

Amen! That is SO true.

It's like the pot calling the kettle "dirty".

And they bash the Catholic Church for when they didn't teach justification by faith, yet they did the exact same thing with the perfection theology.

 

[StormyOne]

I hope we don't end up making this a matter of race. Her race or gender is irrelevant to me, and I would like to assume the same can be said for our brothers on this forum.

if that were true, then why not post an example of a typical white male preaching pentecostal style? There are far more males preaching using this style than females.... so why use as an example a black woman and the byline, pawn of satan?

 

[StormyOne]

When I saw this thread go up today, I knew this comment would follow at some point.

People's reactions to that video have nothing to do with gender or race.

It looks like a Pentecostal service. If the good people here wanted to be Pentecostal, they would be.

Demanding "WISDOM COME TO ME NOW" lacks humility. Do you think they're going to get that wisdom they demanded StormyOne?

There are a lot of things wrong with that speaker's sermon and with the crowd's reactions, but absolutely none of it has to do with gender or race.

so this is the only example of this style that could be found? Out of the hundreds of t.v. evangelists who preach in this style the black woman is labeled a pawn of satan..... I guess some think I was born last night....

 

[StormyOne]

I think it is safe to say that racism has NOT been thoroughly purged from Adventism, so let's not go there. Anyone who thinks it has needs a wake-up call pretty badly.

Besides, there is more than enough shameful discrimination against female preachers in the SDA church to indicate we have a long ways to go.

exactly... the OP connects three issues some in the church have problems with... preaching style, color, and gender.... and some of the people who commented said gender and race were not a factor..... some folks must think I am BoBo the Fool and completely clueless.... Night you are right, folks need a wake-up, unfortunately, they are asleep dreaming they are awake....

 

[mva1985]

I think it is safe to say that racism has NOT been thoroughly purged from Adventism, so let's not go there. Anyone who thinks it has needs a wake-up call pretty badly.

Besides, there is more than enough shameful discrimination against female preachers in the SDA church to indicate we have a long ways to go.

I think it is safe to say that racism has not been purged from the world - so why would anyone think that it has been absolutely purged from the church.

Although I think it is less of a problem then say 50 years ago.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I'm pretty tired of this race card always trying to get played in this forum. I don’t give a hoot if that was Mark Finley on that video acting like that, it is pure nonsense to ‘preach’ in that manner. From the moment I clicked on the video, I KNEW this was a Pentecostal preacher. Remember, I was a Pentecostal for 13yrs folks.

Mark well her constant 'repetition' of 'wisdom'. This is the standard Modus operandi of the charismatic preacher to whip up 'enthusiasm' for the "spirit'. This is NOT the Holy Spirit of God at work. This I know for a fact. I’ve never seen this kind of preaching produce anything more than a frenzied ‘feel good for the moment’ response. Then the ‘worshippers’ walk out the door and back into their disobedient lives. As I said, I have WITNESSED this for 13yrs in that denomination.

Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Stormy--this video was posted because this woman was preaching at an ADVENTIST church! It's not the color of her skin or the gender of sex that is offensive--but the preaching STYLE!

So stop trying to make more of it than it is.

 

[digdeep]

I hope we don't end up making this a matter of race. Her race or gender is irrelevant to me, and I would like to assume the same can be said for our brothers on this forum.

I agree.

 

[Mankin]

I'm sure we would probably label the apstoles satanic due to their preaching style today. Traditionalism has infected the church for FAR too long. So what if you don't like her preaching style? You don't have to listen to it.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I love a lively sermon but her's is more than lively. I see this as a typical pentacostal type of sermon where the mood and atmosphere typically gets higher and higher. I am surprized I didn't see more tongues in the audience than what it appeared to be going on. What we need to really address here is whether or not God is being glorified here or is this in fact another spirit working to arounse the emotions of this crowd.

I personally don't see yelling at the top of your lungs in the manner she repeatedly does here as a way to glorify the creator.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[AndrewK788]

Before this turns into a full-blown argument about race, gender, preaching styles and preferences, look back at what Doc said initially that started this whole discussion in the first place. However, Doc has already made it clear he won't be participating in this unless it can be handled in a civil manner, and I don't blame him.

So apparently Doc, and including many others, disagree with the style of preaching and have given Biblical support as well (although I think that was in the original thread in another forum).

Is there any Biblical support that supports the opposing viewpoint that can counter what has already been laid against it? Or do we have to rely on human logic and underhanded remarks to win this argument? If the latter is true, then count me in with Doc on this one; you won't see me posting in this thread anymore.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I'm sure we would probably label the apstoles satanic due to their preaching style today. Traditionalism has infected the church for FAR too long. So what if you don't like her preaching style? You don't have to listen to it.

Mankin, I’ve read some of your posts recently where you talk about intolerance and your obvious disdain for it, and I’d just like to point out that people have expressed their uneasiness with this sermon (which had nothing to do with “style&#8221, and you are being very intolerant of their feelings.

Intolerance is intolerance, no matter who it comes from.

Happy even expressed that she felt the Holy Spirit was speaking to her through her feelings, and I know that’s how He speaks to me too, and you’re just dismissing it.

That sermon was videotaped in an Adventist church. It was invited in, and some of us have a real problem with that. You can brush it to the side and say “so what if YOU don’t like it?” but do you not recognize that type of comment as intolerance? That’s exactly what intolerance is little brother.

I didn’t read Night’s original OP but I can tell from the comments where this is heading.

I commented in the Traditional section that I thought the video was truly frightening and there are several reasons why I feel that way. Stormy isn't going to accept any other explanation except the one he's assigned to OUR feelings, and that's intolerance too.

I watched several videos of Juanita Bynum after watching this one. Different sermons, interviews, etc.

We're told to test the spirits. Let us do that please. She is putting herself out there as a prophetess of God and even refers to herself in third person a lot with comments like "Prophetess Bynum doesn't like it....". Aside from that being annoying, lol, she's made a proclamation and we have a right to test her.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I'd like to add that Juanita Bynum has done some wonderful things to promote awareness on domestic violence.

That being said, one of her sermons that I watched was her telling a congregation how she picked up a brick to hurt her husband, and she was bragging about it. She made a big joke of it and people were clapping and laughing. I thought it was really inappropriate and hypocritical.

On one hand she's telling people to take domestic violence seriously, while on the other hand she's not taking it seriously herself.

She also talked about asking for a crow bar to kill a security guard (or maybe it was a police officer) when he went after her husband.

She brags on herself a lot and MAKES herself the center of attention. I have a problem with that no matter who it comes from...but if she's going to do it in God's name, I have even more of a problem with it.

In every video I watched, she looks like a different person in almost every one of them. She's had plastic surgery and has several different wigs.

On a personal level, I think she's a very vain person.

I'm not impressed at all with Juanita Bynum as a person, but I know for a fact God uses people that we wouldn't have chosen to do the same job. I wasn't too impressed with Noah either, so I know my dislike of her human attributes isn't an automatic disqualification of being inspired by God.

So I watched several of her sermons, like I mentioned. I wasn't impressed with the person giving the messages, but I wanted to hear what the messages were and test THEM.

I still couldn't tell you exactly what messages it is she's tryng to say came from God. It is very difficult to keep up with her, not just because of the different style in preaching. I'm used to that style.

I'm left wondering what she believes. She doesn't come right out and give any real message that I've seen. She definitely evokes feelings from others, but I'm not sure they know her message either. If they do, they've heard things I've missed.

 

[NightEternal]

I’ve never seen this kind of preaching produce anything more than a frenzied ‘feel good for the moment’ response. Then the ‘worshippers’ walk out the door and back into their disobedient lives. As I said, I have WITNESSED this for 13yrs in that denomination.

So is that the speaker's fault or is that the fault of the individual people who have less than stellar spiritual lives?

Furthermore, is is a gross generalization to lump all of the congregation into one category of 'disobedient lives'. How do you know this? Are you privy to every single one of their personal lives?

No, the style of the presentation had nothing to do with anyone leaving that place and living 'disobedient lives'. But it had everything to do with their own walk with God. And it is ridiculous to place any of the blame for thier faults onto the speaker. It is not the speaker's responsibility to make anyone live a 'good' spiritual life.

 

[Jimlarmore]

So is that the speaker's fault or is that the fault of the individual people who have less than stellar spiritual lives?

Furthermore, is is a gross generalization to lump all of the congregation into one category of 'disobedient lives'. How do you know this? Are you privy to every single one of their personal lives?

No, the style of the presentation had nothing to do with anyone leaving that place and living 'disobedient lives'. But it had everything to do with their own walk with God. And it is ridiculous to place any of the blame for thier faults onto the speaker. It is not the speaker's responsibility to make anyone live a 'good' spiritual life.

I used to worship in pentacostal churches from time to time. What you typically have is this kind of service where as honor says it goes into a frenzied state at some point. The end of it is usually a let down and the folks go home as she says back to their usual lives of what ever they do. They used to call this the Toronto blessing and getting slayed in the spirit where folks would come up and get knocked down.

I have a very good friend who I am currently studying with who was frustrated a few times when they touched him and he didn't go down so they shoved him real hard. That made him angry and he started to look at other faiths after that. Some of this is real some of it is fake. The trumpeting up the emotions is real and serves no purpose to glorify the creator.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[NightEternal]

exactly... the OP connects three issues some in the church have problems with... preaching style, color, and gender.... and some of the people who commented said gender and race were not a factor..... some folks must think I am BoBo the Fool and completely clueless.... Night you are right, folks need a wake-up, unfortunately, they are asleep dreaming they are awake....

Yes, all three of those things are issues some people have a problem with in the church, no question. Hyveth Williams, senior pastor of the Campus Hill Seventh-day Adventist Church in Loma Linda, has also had to endure a lot of flack in all three areas.

And she is an ADVENTIST preacher who has the same fiery style as Juanita, so to use the argument that a visiting Pentacostal being invited to speak in an Adventist church is the problem doesn't seem to wash.

As for those three issues being the reason for some on this forum decrying Jaunita, I will leave the race one alone. If the shoe fits or if it doesn't isn't something that would be productive to get into at this point. The only thing I said in my OP is that she is a black woman which was just a fact being stated. It was not meant to imply that this fact might possibly have been a factor in the rejection by the Trads. It may very well be for some, I don't know. But the race issue was not something that I was thinking when I typed the OP.

But I know for a fact that STYLE AND GENDER ARE issues to some on this forum. I have gotten into it enough times here with the anti-women's ordination brigade people to attest to this. And I feel that discrimination based on gender is just as offensive as racial discrimination, and it's even more offensive when people feel they have a Biblical basis for engaging in either.

 

[NightEternal]

As for the 'pawn of Satan' byline, that was my own creation, kind of like an eye-catching tabloid headline to attract the attention of the posters.

What Doc actually said was that there was 'another spirit' behind her presentation.

I don't really see much difference between the two however. My byline just comes right out and says what he was implying with his comment.