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RDKirk

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Pick & mix theology

You've come in late to the thread. I've already explained the difference between teaching and expounding.

Joyce Meyer is not "teaching" as Paul intended the concept to mean.

In fact, I don't know of any Christian church or denomination that "teaches" as Paul understood the term.
 
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jiminpa

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In your first part, you say he isn't quite lying he either is or he isn't
Do you know the difference between a blatant lie and a deception? He is being subtle, but what he is saying is not the truth, yet not quite a bald-faced lie. It's just enough that if I said he was lying you could refute me by citing his sort-of-truths. Joyce did say that she doesn't have a problem with someone giving rent money to charity, but we don't know how she was about to qualify that statement, or support it from scripture. You see, Jesus didn't have a problem with it either, and the woman he commended gave her last bit to the pharisees.
 
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jiminpa

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This reminds me of a situation when you put a level on top of some bricks, and the bubble is not in the middle first thing, that comes out of a person's mouth is there is a problem with the level,
Except that you're using an offset level, if you're referring to that dishonest accuser of the brethren you posted in the video. So yeah the level is accurate if you are looking for offset truth, and maybe you are, but I'm not.

We're very used to the likes of that guy here. Every few months some follower of MacArthur, or some other wolf in sheep's clothing, wil come on here and lie about the gifts with the same type of cut job editing you posted.
 
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Heart2Soul

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women are not permitted to teach.
Yes they are...permitted by the church that allows it. God never told women to never teach....in some cultures women are not permitted to teach but not all. It is a cultural thing....not to be misapplied to include all women.
 
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messianist

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Yes they are...permitted by the church that allows it. God never told women to never teach....in some cultures women are not permitted to teach but not all. It is a cultural thing....not to be misapplied to include all women.

It has nothing to do with culture.
 
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GTW27

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Yes they are...permitted by the church that allows it. God never told women to never teach....in some cultures women are not permitted to teach but not all. It is a cultural thing....not to be misapplied to include all women.

"It is no longer I that live" The words of Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, are not his, but are from Him who sent him out in the world. These words are not affected by time or culture, or the will of man, for they are eternal as He is eternal. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." You and I are one(John 17) as you know, are we not one with Paul, and Peter, and John and all who came before us? With me, the words are the same when I speak them. Not because of personal interpretation, but because they are His. And because they are His, they change not. And if I were to speak the same words as Paul,(through Paul by way of The Holy Spirit) would I not be hated, and mocked, and accused? I write these words unto you, my dear sister in Christ Jesus, not for sake of argument, but to be considered, and taken unto The Lord in prayer for conformation.
 
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Heart2Soul

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"It is no longer I that live" The words of Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, are not his, but are from Him who sent him out in the world. These words are not affected by time or culture, or the will of man, for they are eternal as He is eternal. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." You and I are one(John 17) as you know, are we not one with Paul, and Peter, and John and all who came before us? With me, the words are the same when I speak them. Not because of personal interpretation, but because they are His. And because they are His, they change not. And if I were to speak the same words as Paul,(through Paul by way of The Holy Spirit) would I not be hated, and mocked, and accused? I write these words unto you, my dear sister in Christ Jesus, not for sake of argument, but to be considered, and taken unto The Lord in prayer for conformation.
Thank you for your information....I still do not believe that it is forbidden for a woman to teach...too many women were used by God in the Bible to say such a thing.....It is not the gender speaking that has the power of truth but it is the Word that sets free those who are bound in ignorance. The Bible says if there is no one to speak He will have the rocks to speak...I will NEVER deny God the opportunity to teach someone through me just because I am a woman. If Deborah (who was a judge) was sought by generals of the kings army seeking advice as to what to do they must do then it is clear to me that a woman can be used by God as He wills. I am not a person who looks at the color, gender, age or financial status of a person when speaking God's Word. It is the Word that has power and it will accomplish what it was sent to do no matter who speaks it.
 
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RDKirk

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Thank you for your information....I still do not believe that it is forbidden for a woman to teach...too many women were used by God in the Bible to say such a thing.....It is not the gender speaking that has the power of truth but it is the Word that sets free those who are bound in ignorance. The Bible says if there is no one to speak He will have the rocks to speak...I will NEVER deny God the opportunity to teach someone through me just because I am a woman. If Deborah (who was a judge) was sought by generals of the kings army seeking advice as to what to do they must do then it is clear to me that a woman can be used by God as He wills. I am not a person who looks at the color, gender, age or financial status of a person when speaking God's Word. It is the Word that has power and it will accomplish what it was sent to do no matter who speaks it.

I will say again and keep saying: By "teach" Paul was talking about men being discipled the way he was discipled under Gamaliel and the apostles were discipled under Jesus. "Teaching" in Paul's understanding meant the teacher had strict control and authority over the life of the disciple.

Paul did not permit men to be discipled under women in that kind of relationship, nor women under men either. There was no co-ed discipling in Paul's congregations.

But we don't do anything like that today, so in that particular way, Paul's prohibition doesn't apply to us. That doesn't mean it's gone by the wayside, it's just that we don't do that particular thing. If any congregation did start a discipling program as strict as as it was in that time, then Paul's prohibition would still apply to them.

But what people such as Joyce Meyer and every other media preacher is doing is "expounding" the gospel. There is no implication of authority. Joyce Meyer is doing the same thing that Priscilla did with Apollos.
 
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messianist

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I will say again and keep saying: By "teach" Paul was talking about men being discipled the way he was discipled under Gamaliel and the apostles were discipled under Jesus. "Teaching" in Paul's understanding meant the teacher had strict control and authority over the life of the disciple.

Paul did not permit men to be discipled under women in that kind of relationship, nor women under men either. There was no co-ed discipling in Paul's congregations.

But we don't do anything like that today, so in that particular way, Paul's prohibition doesn't apply to us. That doesn't mean it's gone by the wayside, it's just that we don't do that particular thing. If any congregation did start a discipling program as strict as as it was in that time, then Paul's prohibition would still apply to them.

But what people such as Joyce Meyer and every other media preacher is doing is "expounding" the gospel. There is no implication of authority. Joyce Meyer is doing the same thing that Priscilla did with Apollos.
wrong again she is attempting to teach and she calls her self a teacher.
 
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GTW27

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Thank you for your information....I still do not believe that it is forbidden for a woman to teach...too many women were used by God in the Bible to say such a thing.....It is not the gender speaking that has the power of truth but it is the Word that sets free those who are bound in ignorance. The Bible says if there is no one to speak He will have the rocks to speak...I will NEVER deny God the opportunity to teach someone through me just because I am a woman. If Deborah (who was a judge) was sought by generals of the kings army seeking advice as to what to do they must do then it is clear to me that a woman can be used by God as He wills. I am not a person who looks at the color, gender, age or financial status of a person when speaking God's Word. It is the Word that has power and it will accomplish what it was sent to do no matter who speaks it.

If you and I were in a park, for example, and you started to preach or teach me something that I needed, do you really thing I would be offended. I would welcome it, as I do here. I believe all of this is related to "the setting". And I do not mean cultural setting. I remember years ago, being invited to a church from some friends whom I attended their Bible study. In the Bible study everyone shared freely. When I went into their church I sat down quietly. In front of the congregation, was a woman from the Bible Study, who was teaching.From the moment I sat down, I was in The Spirit. Not because of the woman up front, but because it was His will for me at that moment. It was then, that this woman could not finish her teaching. No matter how hard she tried, she had no words. Next came the main pastore of the church and he preached a sermon in the flesh. After that, the youth pastore came up front, and after seeing me in the crowd, was in The Spirit and preached a small sermon in The Spirit. He was the one from the Bible study that I was led to attend and encourage.This whole group from the Bible Study eventually left that church because doctrinal differences.So who knows, maybe The Lord, someday, will have me attend one of Joyce Meyers meetings. Perhaps He would reserve me a seat right down front. And perhaps I would be delightfully surprised.
 
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Heart2Soul

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If you and I were in a park, for example, and you started to preach or teach me something that I needed, do you really thing I would be offended. I would welcome it, as I do here. I believe all of this is related to "the setting". And I do not mean cultural setting. I remember years ago, being invited to a church from some friends whom I attended their Bible study. In the Bible study everyone shared freely. When I went into their church I sat down quietly. In front of the congregation, was a woman from the Bible Study, who was teaching.From the moment I sat down, I was in The Spirit. Not because of the woman up front, but because it was His will for me at that moment. It was then, that this woman could not finish her teaching. No matter how hard she tried, she had no words. Next came the main pastore of the church and he preached a sermon in the flesh. After that, the youth pastore came up front, and after seeing me in the crowd, was in The Spirit and preached a small sermon in The Spirit. He was the one from the Bible study that I was led to attend and encourage.This whole group from the Bible Study eventually left that church because doctrinal differences.So who knows, maybe The Lord, someday, will have me attend one of Joyce Meyers meetings. Perhaps He would reserve me a seat right down front. And perhaps I would be delightfully surprised.
:) I would say we could probably teach each other a thing or two as you have already done for me concerning certain "things" I won't mention specifically here....but you know what I am referring to.

Most of Joyce Meyer's "teaching" is about overcoming the obstacles of our mind and flesh and she uses her own life as a testimony to glorify God in how He healed and delivered her from many issues in her life that caused her walk with God to be a struggle. This is what I do...I call it "sharing my testimony" but it is teaching that person that God can and will do what His Word says it will. So in the same respect Joyce shares with others her testimony and how the Holy Spirit used everyday life situations to teach her to grow spiritually and overcome any area of her life that was hindering her.
I have listened to her tapes and watched her videos and throughout her message she took a specific area in her life that she needed to overcome and shared the scriptures in the Bible that opened her eyes to understand and become free of it....such as anger and unforgiveness towards her father.
And if you ever see one of her conferences it is nearly ALL women.....and Joyce really gets to the point when it comes to teaching women how to walk upright before God and how to submit to their husband as God commanded. (This was something she struggled HARD with concerning her husband Dave...but in time she was able to do so and that is when God began to increase her knowledge and understanding about the Order of things that God intended and why it is important).

I do believe that the Pastor of a church should be a male....I haven't listened to too many female pastors but when I did it wasn't anointed and didn't minister much to me. But all my Sunday School teachers throughout my life were women. A couple of churches I attended had "team youth pastors" that were both the husband and wife teaching the youth services.....they just lumped all the age groups into 1 assembly....age 6 through 12 I believe.

You really bless me with your humble spirit and yet you have the boldness to speak when there is the need to expose false teaching and doctrines...and when you do, it is in such a way that even I receive it without being offended or defiant to what you are sharing....lol.
 
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W2L

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I dont follow any teachers, but rich ones that live in luxury while poor people suffer, i just cant understand that reasoning. Forgive me but i cant. It lacks discretion and discernment, maybe even love.

Regardless of what they teach, their example teaches the wrong path, IMO.
 
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jiminpa

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I dont follow any teachers, but rich ones that live in luxury while poor people suffer, i just cant understand that reasoning. Forgive me but i cant. It lacks discretion and discernment, maybe even love.

Regardless of what they teach, their example teaches the wrong path, IMO.
Do you know how much of her earnings they give to the poor? I don't, but it seems to be substantial. In the bible God has blessed people with great wealth and scripture calls it a blessing. Does Joyce hammer her viewers and listeners to give to her so that she can prosper? Does she take all of the offerings and gifts for herself or does the ministry have outreaches to the poor? Is her primary source of income from gifts to her ministry or the fruit of her own labors in book sales? Should we use own jealousy as a measuring stick for the validity of someone's ministry?

In these things, I think Joyce Meyer holds up better compared to scripture than we here on this forum.
 
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