Joyce Meyer

[endure]

Gods grace,
please, you have no offended me in the least. if you would continue this conversation i would be glad, if not, i understand.

yes i do understand that not all teachers do teach the truth that leads to life, i fully agree. sorry for my misunderstanding.
though me personally, i do believe joyce does it quite well.

yes i do understand that even they are taught, but not simply by God, we are all under authority, i really cant think of any human who is at the top of the authority list and is directly under God alone, but what im saying is, i dont believe anyone hears from God alone, we all need other men of God to teach us. and yes we can hear directly from God, but us being together working as family is the primary plan. when we become divided of what we do not know for sure, the devil divides and conquers.
we need people, that seems to be one of Gods favorite tools for teaching.
i do not believe that the intent of the jewelry that she wears (THOUGH I MYSELF HAVE SEEN HER MANY TIMES BUT I DONT EVEN REMEMBER SEEING JEWELRY, ITS NOT AN OUTSTANDING THING WITH HER)
i believe her choosing a nice dress or a nice necklace over a shabby one or none at all is no more than respect and proper edicate, the world is looking at her, she better not be shabby, besides the fact that people representing God should always look their best.
i dont think it is a witnessing tool at all really.
i enjoy fine dining, fine clothing etc, and i do this when i can, it isnt that im doing it to witness, so really i dont think it needs to brought into the context of their being better ways to witness, though there certainly are.

 

[SAVEVERYONE]

Halleljah she was on TBN last night cool.... shes anointed and stomps the devils head in the ground , thats why everyone responds the way they do to her if they dont like her, because she stomps the devils head in the ground......HALLELUJAH and so do IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.....................

 

[Debbi]

Is she the one that wrote, "Beauty For Ashes"? Anyhow she wrote a book years ago about how God helped her after she had been abused as a child. I could relate to alot of things she said in that book. My favorite of her books is, "Tell Them I Love Them." I watched her on t.v. till I heard that she had gotten into some false teachings. Still some of her earlier stuff made sense. She was inspiring to me earlier that a person that was abused severely, God can help them get alot better and have a ministry. Anybody read those 2 books, "Tell Them I Love Them" or "Beauty For Ashes"?

 

[Anthony]

Jesus went to Hell
For example in her Book "What Should You Believe" on page 41 she writes, "During that time, He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. . ."Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and went to hell in our place." On page 42 she writes "His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go".

JESUS DID GO TO HELL:
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Mat. 12:40

"I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". (Rev 1:18 KJV)
Acts 2:31 quotes David from Psalm 16:10 saying “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in HELL, neither His flesh did see corruption.”

She is not a sinner
On her tape, “What Happened from the Cross to The Throne", she says:
“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time."

2 Corinthians 5:21, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

Words are power
Joyce reduces Jesus' name to a magic word and also his blood. For example in her book "The Name, The Word, The Blood" she writes, "words are containers for power”
“My husband and I stay in various hotels because of our travels in ministry. Quite frequently when unpacking and settling into a hotel room I will ‘plead’ the blood or ‘put’ the blood on the room, to cleanse or remove any wrong spirits that may be there from other guests. I do this by praying, by speaking the blood in my prayer"

YES, I ALSO PLEAD THE BLOOD OF JESUS OVER MY HOUSEHOLD AND FAMILY. DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THERE IS POWER IN THE BLOOD?

Jesus goes to Hell?

So was Jesus' atonement on the Cross or in Hell? Was salvation purchased on the Cross or in Hell?

She not a sinner?

When we are one with the Spirit we do not sin, but we are all still flesh, and flesh will sin until the day we die.

1 JH 1:8
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us”

Words are power

The simple problem it is over done, reducing Christ Blood, to magic words.

 

[endure]

anthony

1.
whether the atonement was in hell or on the cross doesnt matter, the bible still says he went there, so its a pointless idea.

2.
we are sinners?
well i dont have time to discuss the true meaning about 1 john 1.8. but it wasnt talking about christians who were walking in their maturity and power, it was talking about people who needed to come to God through the invitation of the previous 7 verses, not full grown christians.

but the flesh is nothing anyway, the bible says to mortify it(romans 8)
and that through the spirit we can live free of its obligations (galations 6), and romans says we are not a debtor to it, it doesnt rule us(romans 8).
the flesh is irrelevant as far as true obligations go, it may be present and real in a persons life, but its not an obligating factor, it can be defeated.

sin?
the bible says if you sin you dont know God yet. 1 john 3.
the bible says through suffering you can CEASE to sin. 1 pet 4.1-2
the bible says you can walk free of stumbling from being in the light through love 1 john 2.
the bible says we have now been made free from all sin, romans 8.
the bible says that we are dead to sin so should not sin anymore romans6.
the bible says that Christ died to sin ONCE, and we ought to be thus minded. romans 6

why do we get so distracted by the power of our flesh and sin?
so what? God is greater.

and please...dont ask me if ive stopped sinning then, its rather irrelevant.

do we still sin? aparantly we do...
but nothing can change the truth of the bible that says we dont have to and should not. i dont know about anyone else but im going to believe it and go on. im not there yet, but im not going to sit here anylonger just becuase ive never been there.

3.
Are they magic words?no.
Is Christ the point of it all? yes
but that doesnt change that the bibe says to declare a thing and it shall be established (job)
the bible says life and death is in the tongue (proverbs)
the bible says SPEAK to the mountain and it will move.
the bible says that Jesus many times TALKED to the problem of the issue, he told demons, sickness, etc what to do with his words, becuase he had authority. and the bible says we have authority given to us through Christ (luke 10.19-20)

the words dont work becuase they are magic chantings or special phrases, but becuase you realise, understand and believe in the authority behind them, but you still need to speak.
you speak with authority given to you through Christ, and if you understand this and believe it, demons and issues have to hault becuase Jesus made this a way of acting in the kingdom, its how he delegated authority and told us to work, demons etc cannot refuse you becuase that would be refusing Christ and that is absolutely not possible.

 

[Zoe]

anthony

1.
whether the atonement was in hell or on the cross doesnt matter, the bible still says he went there, so its a pointless idea.

2.
we are sinners?
well i dont have time to discuss the true meaning about 1 john 1.8. but it wasnt talking about christians who were walking in their maturity and power, it was talking about people who needed to come to God through the invitation of the previous 7 verses, not full grown christians.

but the flesh is nothing anyway, the bible says to mortify it(romans 8)
and that through the spirit we can live free of its obligations (galations 6), and romans says we are not a debtor to it, it doesnt rule us(romans 8).
the flesh is irrelevant as far as true obligations go, it may be present and real in a persons life, but its not an obligating factor, it can be defeated.

sin?
the bible says if you sin you dont know God yet. 1 john 3.
the bible says through suffering you can CEASE to sin. 1 pet 4.1-2
the bible says you can walk free of stumbling from being in the light through love 1 john 2.
the bible says we have now been made free from all sin, romans 8.
the bible says that we are dead to sin so should not sin anymore romans6.
the bible says that Christ died to sin ONCE, and we ought to be thus minded. romans 6

why do we get so distracted by the power of our flesh and sin?
so what? God is greater.

and please...dont ask me if ive stopped sinning then, its rather irrelevant.

do we still sin? aparantly we do...
but nothing can change the truth of the bible that says we dont have to and should not. i dont know about anyone else but im going to believe it and go on. im not there yet, but im not going to sit here anylonger just becuase ive never been there.

3.
Are they magic words?no.
Is Christ the point of it all? yes
but that doesnt change that the bibe says to declare a thing and it shall be established (job)
the bible says life and death is in the tongue (proverbs)
the bible says SPEAK to the mountain and it will move.
the bible says that Jesus many times TALKED to the problem of the issue, he told demons, sickness, etc what to do with his words, becuase he had authority. and the bible says we have authority given to us through Christ (luke 10.19-20)

the words dont work becuase they are magic chantings or special phrases, but becuase you realise, understand and believe in the authority behind them, but you still need to speak.
you speak with authority given to you through Christ, and if you understand this and believe it, demons and issues have to hault becuase Jesus made this a way of acting in the kingdom, its how he delegated authority and told us to work, demons etc cannot refuse you becuase that would be refusing Christ and that is absolutely not possible.

well said!

 

[endure]

well thankyou,
i give all glory to God for whatever i may know or however i may be able to speak.
thankyou.

 

[jedimusik]

1. Whenever people criticize Joyce Meyer they always bring up the "Jesus in Hell" thing. I've been listening to her almost every day for over a year and I've never heard her say that.

Apparently, in the mid-90s a lot of Word-of-Faith style teachers were saying this, and she just repeated it. Her teaching is more oriented toward day-to-day application of scripture (repentance, perseverance, forgiveness, worship, etc.), not the heavy theological topics - maybe she realized several years ago that that was not her forte, and to leave well enough alone.

Frankly, I think if any teacher starts dissecting the mathematical specifics of HOW Jesus atoned for sin (did he go through Heaven, Hell, Abraham's bosom, all three at the same time, was he shaped like a man or a mist when he did it, whatever?) they are quickly going to degenerate into esoteric nonsense, because none of us are going to fully understand that until we are with Him. (Same thing goes with the Trinity: Three distinct persons in one God? Wrap your mind around that one.) The important thing is WHY he did it, and that he DID do it.

2. I've never heard Joyce Meyer claim she doesn't sin either. Actually, MOST of Joyce's material stems from examples she uses about dumb MISTAKES she has made and how she learned from them. Far from claiming to be immaculate, she's usually downright self-deprecating. I think this is a quote taken out of context.

3. The Bible says that Death and life are in the power of the tongue (Proverbs 18:11). How much more powerful can words be? All these Word of Faith Christians running around and saying things that are actually positive, encouraging and hopeful. Quick! They must be stopped at all cost!

I'm not a big fan of the TBN Word of Faith teachers in general, mainly because they tend to be sketchy about their finances and authority (think Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn). But I think that Joyce strikes a good balance.

 

[pmarquette]

jedimusik
Newbie

there is a book called the Kingdom of the Cults , written by Hank Hanegraaff , O,Connell , and Martin .... that has an axe to grind , and several web pages that point out some " out of context " tidbits that " supposedly " word of faith people said ; presented like a JW - tract , sister joyce said ..... do dah do dah....

Denominational people's view from the outside of the word of faith , rodney howard brown , toronto blessing , etc. ....we are a bit strange to some of our brethren .... be patient

 

[Ryder]

I've found that I like most of the talks I've heard from her, and I don't think I've heard any contradicting theology from her to-date either. Additionally she has said her husband is the head of their household, and she's not a minister (in the 'head of a church' sense) ,she's a speaker. I don't see what the problem with her is at all. I'm not right about everything (gee that's for sure) but I haven't come across this big outstanding 'warning siren' regarding her yet. My two cents.

 

[Living4Him03]

I urge all of you to search for Joyce Meyer on the equip dot org website! It will provide more information on her false teachings. I think so many women relate to her because she is so down to earth and so matter of fact. However, this does not make her biblical. Where does the BIBLE say Jesus went to hell? I have not seen that in scripture and common sense does not make something biblical.

 

[Dawn Marie]

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

 

[Anthony]

Jesus going into the earth for three days or hell is not the issue so much as WoF, like Joyce preach the atonement process occurring in hell when they say Jesus wrestle the keys of hell from Satan and won our ransom. That it was not Jesus death on the cross that paid for our sins, but rather the wrestling match in Hell with Satan.

 

[endure]

Anthony
the 'wrestling" match in hell is simply describing the overthrow of power that did take place.
and i dont think ive ever heard anyone directly seperate Jesus' death on the cross and the "wrestling" match in hell that took place, as if one wasnt as great as the other.
the fact that they make a point to talk about one, doesnt mean they discredit the other.
i think your making it out to be something it never was.

 

[endure]

living4him03

i dont think there is any question that Jesus went to hell really, atleast why people believe that is very clear.

from verses like
matt 12.40
for as jonas was three days and three nights in the whales belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH.

(i see no reason to believe that doesnt refer to hell, it refers more to hell than anything else we could think, in unity with the rest of scripture.
i think it clearly points out that there is something of some point and business down in the heart or center of this earth. what could that be but hell?)

ephesians 4.8-9
wherefor he saith, when he ascended up on high he led captivity captive, an gave gifts unto men. (NOW THAT HE ASCENDED, WHAT IS BUT THAT HE ALSO DESCENDED, FIRST INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?)

(this wasnt the surface of the earth, but the lower parts, what could be in the deep parts of the earth that required Jesus' travel and time besides hell?)

1 Peter 3.19
by which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometimes were disobedient when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of noah...

(where else could Jesus have possibly went and preached unto sinful beings in a prison that sinned in the days of noah?)

no common sense doesnt make the scripture, but i beleive God gave the scripture in way that common sense can receive it.

 

[Living4Him03]

the heart of the earth is not hell, it's six feet under, meaning he would be dead and then later resurrected

 

[Living4Him03]

I believe Hank Hannegraf (see www.equip.org) has written about this very issue.

 

[Anthony]

When Jesus cried it is finished

It was finished,

going to hell was not a necessary part of our redemption. Jesus did not suffer at the hands Satan in the bowels oof hell. Christ truimphed over the devil at the cross. It was his death and death alone that made our salvation possible.

Many WoF preachers teach that Jesus' passion on the cross proved to be insufficient to redeem humankind, and so he had to be trapped and hauled down to the pits of hell of hell by Satan. It was there, Jesus is tortured and tormented by Satan and his demons.

 

[Living4Him03]

Well said anthony

 

[endure]

Living4him
ok, i dont see how 6 feet deep into the crust of the outer surface could be in anyway called the heart, or the lower parts of the earth.
and you didnt recognise the third scripture i gave.

anthony
i believe i have given enough scripture to atleast show why i have a reason to beleive Jesus went to hell.
whether his work was over or not.
i am not very concrete on what i think Jesus did down there, but i do beleive he overthrew the power of hell and set many people free.
i have never come to the conclusion that what Jesus did on the cross wasnt enough, or that that Jesus was tormented by the devil.
but i do beleive he went to hell.

you say "many" teach what acclaim to them.
i guess i have been "WoF" my whole life and have heard alot of what goes around, and have never heard anyone say or have the theology that Jesus death was not enough.

if you ask me what i beleive about this certain issue.
i beleive his death was enough, but i beleive him going into hell and doing what he did there was the outworking of what he accomplished fully on the cross, though it wasnt a battle or the trial or a fight that he had to strive to finish, the battle was won, but i do beleive he still went there.