LDS Joseph Smith Started a False Religion

[Almost there]

Is there any evidence that Smith did not meet an angel?

Is there any evidence that he did?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Have you ever read "Mama, Mormonism and Me"? It speaks of the mormon need to shed your own blood for your salvation. Jesus' blood only did part of the job..

You mean that book which literally lies to you about LDS beliefs? Yes, I am familiar with their slander. I pray for the writers, that they may come to have a living loving relationship with Christ, rather than spreading hate and lies. I have no problem with other people walking other Christian walks (I actually am overjoyed by their relationship with Christ), but for someone who spends their life lies and hate-- such is must of al detrimental to themselves.

Check out Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church and the other ex-mormon sites.

Yep, very very familiar with that Christ-hating den of atheists. Many prayers for them. I find it interesting that you, a Christian, would refer me to such a site. Do you want me to be a Christ-hating atheist?

 

[fatboys]

That is one perspective.

Here are some more: Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church

I’ve read those site for years. It saddens me that they can get so caught up in the negative that they can’t see the restoration for truth that it restores. Mainstream Christianity does have differences which does not make it in unified.

 

[Almost there]

You mean that book which literally lies to you about LDS beliefs?

Well, opinions vary.

I have relatives from the 70's that are strong mormons. When they opened the temple in Bellevue, WA to the world right after it was finished, I toured it with them and got me a book of Mormon. I almost became a Mormon. I didn't. A few years later I became a Christian, though. I then studied mormon history for a couple of decades before I thought It was time to use what I learned and move on to other pursuits, depending on the knowledge I had picked up whenever the need arose.

The evidence is more than overwhelming regarding the history of the church and its founders and early presidents. It is irrefutable. In fact, it gets downright comical. That is why South Park had such a field day with it, and it was so successful it was turned into a play.

A fish does not know that it is wet.

 

[Almost there]

I’ve read those site for years. It saddens me that they can get so caught up in the negative that they can’t see the restoration for truth that it restores. Mainstream Christianity does have differences which does not make it in unified.

I absolutely agree. This is one reason I stopped my studies. For some of those guys it is their calling, partly because they left the church themselves. For me, it was not my calling, but just something that became "fun" because it was so easy to win debates.

But we are not called to "bash other beliefs". We are called to present the gospel. Even when Jesus said "I am the way...no one comes to the father but through me", he was not bashing other beliefs. He was simply saying there was only one true way, and allowed the believer to make up his own mind about what that implied about all the others.

And if you read the testimonies on the ex-mormon sites, it is amazing how many of them, at least as their first step, simply gave up on religion completely.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Well, opinions vary.

I have relatives from the 70's that are strong mormons. When they opened the temple in Bellevue, WA to the world right after it was finished, I toured it with them and got me a book of Mormon. I almost became a Mormon. I didn't. A few years later I became a Christian, though. I then studied mormon history for a couple of decades before I thought It was time to use what I learned and move on to other pursuits, depending on the knowledge I had picked up whenever the need arose.

The evidence is more than overwhelming regarding the history of the church and its founders and early presidents. It is irrefutable. In fact, it gets downright comical. That is why South Park had such a field day with it, and it was so successful it was turned into a play.

A fish does not know that it is wet.

I'm happy you've become stronger with Christ!

A problem with many anti-Mormon sources is that they do everything in their power to keep you from looking at actual LDS doctrine. They'd much rather spend time recounting deeds of sinners, pretending random statements are doctrinal (they're not), etc. Everything to keep from talking about Christ is actual LDS doctrine. Heck, I've chatted with some anti-Mormon folks who have literally told me "No, I don't want to talk about Christ, I want to talk about Joseph Smith's deeds instead". It is said

But we are not called to "bash other beliefs". We are called to present the gospel. Even when Jesus said "I am the way...no one comes to the father but through me", he was not bashing other beliefs. He was simply saying there was only one true way, and allowed the believer to make up his own mind about what that implied about all the others.

Amen! A thousands times more: Amen!

And if you read the testimonies on the ex-mormon sites, it is amazing how many of them, at least as their first step, simply gave up on religion completely.

Agreed. I've heard stats* that like 85% of ex-LDS become staunch atheists. The way some Christians act (constant bashing, attacks, lies) helps drive that number. It is sad.
*Disclaimer: I don't remember the source for this, so I can't testify of it's reliableness. Hence, you can take it with a grain of salt if you want.

 

[Antig]

Well, opinions vary.

I have relatives from the 70's that are strong mormons. When they opened the temple in Bellevue, WA to the world right after it was finished, I toured it with them and got me a book of Mormon. I almost became a Mormon. I didn't. A few years later I became a Christian, though. I then studied mormon history for a couple of decades before I thought It was time to use what I learned and move on to other pursuits, depending on the knowledge I had picked up whenever the need arose.

The evidence is more than overwhelming regarding the history of the church and its founders and early presidents. It is irrefutable. In fact, it gets downright comical. That is why South Park had such a field day with it, and it was so successful it was turned into a play.

A fish does not know that it is wet.

Be interested in your view on your research into Mormon faith. You seem well educated on it and it would be helpful for those of us who want to know the truth about that faith.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Be interested in your view on your research into Mormon faith. You seem well educated on it and it would be helpful for those of us who want to know the truth about that faith.

You're welcome to ask anything you'd like

 

[Almost there]

To date, this is the most powerful "anti-mormon" message I ever read.

Why I Left Mormonism - the Mormon Church

And he really drills down into Nephi chapter 5 here regarding metals:
2 Nephi Chapter 5 of the Book of Mormon - Metals | Recovery from Mormonism

He exposes the utter absurdity of the whole thing.

It reminds me of what happened to me when I actually studied the subject of hell in the bible and quickly did a 180 on my beliefs.

 

[Almost there]

Be interested in your view on your research into Mormon faith. You seem well educated on it and it would be helpful for those of us who want to know the truth about that faith.

Well, I don't need to re-invent the wheel. I just need to know to which information you should be directed.

I posted a couple of interesting ones above, but all of the testimonies in Why We Left - Personal Accounts of Leaving Mormonism are really the best starting place. It is the words of real mormons who left the church and the events that prompted that action. Some are real tear jerkers.

 

[Jane_Doe]

To date, this is the most powerful "anti-mormon" message I ever read.

Why I Left Mormonism - the Mormon Church

And he really drills down into Nephi chapter 5 here regarding metals:
2 Nephi Chapter 5 of the Book of Mormon - Metals | Recovery from Mormonism

Remember how I said most anti-Mormon stuff doesn't talk Christ? How often does these talk about Christ: 0. Lots of recounting of deeds of sinners though.

Note: @Almost there , you seem to be a good dude and honest Christian. I'm not talking about you at all in this post. Rather, I pray that these site-writers will find peace in Christ.

 

[devin553344]

He made it up as he went along. He began by claiming that all branches of Christianity were apostate and that God removed true Christianity from the earth with the deaths of Christ's orginial apostles. When he dictated the Book of Mormon to a scribe, he added words to discredit tne Bible.

That was after he claimed that he saw two resurrected men who he claimed were the Father and the Son (they look like identical twins when artists depict them):

View attachment 217629
Painting: The First Vision by Del Parson.

...13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.

14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
The Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History, Chapter 1
Joseph Smith—History 1

From the Book of Mormon, this is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book [the Bible] hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29

I think Joseph Smith might have been hallucinating. Not his fault then. Just a disorder.

 

[Almost there]

Remember how I said most anti-Mormon stuff doesn't talk Christ? How often does these talk about Christ: 0. Lots of recounting of deeds of sinners though.

Note: @Almost there , you seem to be a good dude so none of this committing is one you. I'm talking about these sites. It just... I pray that these people will find peace in Christ.

I appreciate your attitude and perspective.

I have discovered over the years that a strong case can be made against pretty much any man-made* religion. It is Christianity itself that is unflappable.

*This includes all denominations, Christian or not.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I appreciate your attitude and perspective.

I have discovered over the years that a strong case can be made against pretty much any man-made* religion. It is Christianity itself that is unflappable.

*This includes all denominations, Christian or not.

I will 100% agree that Christ is the only infallible being. We (all Christians) should look to Him as our foundation. He alone is the the sure foundation.

 

[Almost there]

I will 100% agree that Christ is the only infallible being. We (all Christians) should look to Him as our foundation. He alone is the the sure foundation.

You may find this comical: I was in a bar band back in the early 2000's that had five members. Every member except me was a devout Mormon.

Yeah, I'm the only one that had a beer.

 

[Larniavc]

If you want evidence of that, the best place to look for it is to ask God.

He’s not in the habit of talking to me.

 

[Larniavc]

Is there any evidence that he did?

His testimony and the many people who believe he did.

 

[Almost there]

His testimony and the many people who believe he did.

Technically, that is not evidence, especially the latter part of the sentence. It is a claim.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Is there any evidence that Smith did not meet an angel?

Oh it seems evident he met angels alright, fallen ones, based on his writings, sad when people lack discernment between evil spirits and angels from Heaven.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Ray Charles could see angels too..