lately ive had some thoughts of joining the army, but today at school when i told someone this i was told christians shouldnt. i seem to agree more with the side that says they can, but there are still some doubts in my mind. so i thought id ask people who had server or are serving their thoughts.
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joining for christians
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ICor1311
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This seems to be a hot topic as of lately. Well, I'm a Christian and have been serving in the Army for almost 13 years. My very good friends whom I have served with over the years are all Christians.
Pray about it. Ask God to give you the answer for His will. See where His will takes you.
Pray about it. Ask God to give you the answer for His will. See where His will takes you.
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QuiltAngel
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I hope to have an answer for your in the next couple of days. I have a resource I want to look at before replying, but I think it might be of help to you.
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justanobserver
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Just my opinion but there aint nothing wrong with a christian serving his/her country. Like others said - with any career move, pray for His will. He may want you to do something else but theres a need for chaplains and chaplain assistants in the service.
If I could, I would go back in and I am a christian.
If I could, I would go back in and I am a christian.
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You will be greatly tested in the military much more so than other fields of employment, I would read Amos 3:3, the military is a sticky area because you may not have the freedom to walk away from thoes who are calious, malitious etc and it can really weaken your walk with God, the bible teaches us not to walk and sit with thoes who walk in darkness (keep in mind this is much different than persecution for being a christian, like when someone flips you off on the highway and spews out a bunch of swear words they are not persecuting you for being a christian they are just nasty people whom you should minimize your exposure to, but in the military this may be your sgt, lt or DI in which case you just have to live with it). Military hierarchy and culture can exasperate this type of behavior because everything is based on rank, if someone is higher rank than you they can get away with doing lots of stuff to you (there are lines they cant cross, but that line is alot more loose than in the civilian world, in otherwords if I had a boss or co worker yell a bunch of nasty stuff at me or throw my stapler I could file suit, but in the military they basicly have to rape you or physicly assult you before any significant action will be taken to remove there rank and there power over you, if you file a complaint for anything short of that they will likely retain there position and make your life hell. This is a posible reality of the military, the flip side is you could have a great commander and NCO and get alot of useful work done and be proud of what you do and maybe even your commander or NCO will be a christian as well, if you do join I pray the latter occurs but it is important to be aware of the former, if the former occurs there are ways to get reassigned etc but thoes are neither fast nor painless. I hope I maintained tact while presenting relavant facts without candy coating, I dont want to candy coat things just for the sake of being politicly correct.
Also be aware that the military is in the process of sub-contracting alot of the non-combat MOS jobs so that they can deploy more people to combat positions, so if you think you will be in the finance corp instead of kicking in doors in bagdad or loading bombs or whatever you could have a rude awakening, the military is in a state of transistion and when they start mixing and matching and shutting this base down and do the hokie pokie you could end up in kuait pulling security.
Just make sure you do tons of homework and dont believe anything your recruiter says, not nessicarily because they are lying but because the military is changing every day, they are going away from the cold war mentality and focusing on rapid deployment so you could be watching your childs play one day and in lower east botswana the next. Also the air force and navy are down sizing because the air force has already started the sub contracting of non combat jobs and you only need so many people to run the subs, boats and carriers we have.
You should probably get an email subscription to military.com and start reading the articles on what is happening, that really opened up my eyes.
I hope this helped, please let me know if anything was said that was not tactful and line item it with a suggestion of what to write instead while keeping the same message.
Also be aware that the military is in the process of sub-contracting alot of the non-combat MOS jobs so that they can deploy more people to combat positions, so if you think you will be in the finance corp instead of kicking in doors in bagdad or loading bombs or whatever you could have a rude awakening, the military is in a state of transistion and when they start mixing and matching and shutting this base down and do the hokie pokie you could end up in kuait pulling security.
Just make sure you do tons of homework and dont believe anything your recruiter says, not nessicarily because they are lying but because the military is changing every day, they are going away from the cold war mentality and focusing on rapid deployment so you could be watching your childs play one day and in lower east botswana the next. Also the air force and navy are down sizing because the air force has already started the sub contracting of non combat jobs and you only need so many people to run the subs, boats and carriers we have.
You should probably get an email subscription to military.com and start reading the articles on what is happening, that really opened up my eyes.
I hope this helped, please let me know if anything was said that was not tactful and line item it with a suggestion of what to write instead while keeping the same message.
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ICor1311
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As a Christian, you will be tried and tested everyday of your life, whether in the military or not. You may have a civilian job where your boss is not a Christian and has no Christian views. Your choice is (A) continue working there or (B) quit. If you decide to quit, then your jobless.
If someone in the military says or does something that is not inline with your core values, nor the military's core values, you have more choices there. If you have a supervisor that continues to offend the morales you have instilled in yourself through God, then you'll be moved to another team or another section. I'm telling you this through 13 years of military experience, not just a few weeks of Basic Training experience.
Once you're in the military, you're in. You sign a contractual agreement.
Currently, my role in the Army is an Army Recruiter. Believe it or not, we're still recruiting for clerical positions (i.e. finance, human resources, personnel, etc). There are 212 different opportunities for you to take part in. YOU CHOOSE THE JOB. I, as a recruiter, make absolutely no decisions for you.
Is the military a cake walk in the park everyday? No, it isn't. Is any job a cake walk in the park everyday? No, it isn't.
Some people can hack it in the military. My job is to weed out the ones who can make it from the ones who can't. Every now and then, one of the ones who can't seem to slip through the cracks and find more things to complain about than to praise about.
It is what it is.
Once again, pray about it and see where God leads you. Remember, God puts you where He wants you.
If someone in the military says or does something that is not inline with your core values, nor the military's core values, you have more choices there. If you have a supervisor that continues to offend the morales you have instilled in yourself through God, then you'll be moved to another team or another section. I'm telling you this through 13 years of military experience, not just a few weeks of Basic Training experience.
Once you're in the military, you're in. You sign a contractual agreement.
Currently, my role in the Army is an Army Recruiter. Believe it or not, we're still recruiting for clerical positions (i.e. finance, human resources, personnel, etc). There are 212 different opportunities for you to take part in. YOU CHOOSE THE JOB. I, as a recruiter, make absolutely no decisions for you.
Is the military a cake walk in the park everyday? No, it isn't. Is any job a cake walk in the park everyday? No, it isn't.
Some people can hack it in the military. My job is to weed out the ones who can make it from the ones who can't. Every now and then, one of the ones who can't seem to slip through the cracks and find more things to complain about than to praise about.
It is what it is.
Once again, pray about it and see where God leads you. Remember, God puts you where He wants you.
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You did make a profound comment I would like to point out (as well as avoid several of my points but I will get to that), "not inline with your core values, nor the military's core values" I noticed you said militarys core values in there, the militarys core values can be much different from the word of God so what happens when the NCO or lt is in line with military core values but not christian core values, this is usually the case, I will agree if they are out of line in following some army regulation they can get slammed but not for being out of line with a christian core value, you can almost equate all of basic training treatment as out of line with christian values how do you answer that as a recruiter, how can you justify a DI's behavior without ignoring Gods word, just a challenge to you, there is absolutly no fruit being displayed by a DI during basic training. Also I never disagreed that you could not get moved to another group if there were serious conflicts but I stated this is neither quick nor painless.
Also I realize that I did not retire out of the military with 4 tours in 2 different wars and a chest full of fruit salad but I did COMPLETE basic and spent 2 years in the national gaurd so I know how the system works (I had to work the system to get out, and it was neither quick nor painless), and I know when you are the squeeky wheel and want to get out or not go to this or that training life will not be fun and the military can make things much worse than a civilian job, this is a key point.....
The military can make your life much worse than any civilian job.
Also in a civilian job you dont nessicarily have to quit you can file a lawsuit for workplace harrassement, if someone in a civilian job ever did what they do to you in basic you would have a bullet proof court case.
I agree life is hard, nothing in life is free (I ought to know I am paying back 72K in student loans) but the military takes it to a whole new level if you are not a rank and file soldier.
Oh and about that whole you signed a contract bit, they will never fail to remind you of that every waking moment you are in the military, they refer to it as "you signed on the dotted line" with maybe some explitives sprinkeled in there. I dont know what they say to draftees.
This is all very important stuff to be aware of. Also 1cor13 how can you deny the changes that are slowly taking place in the military to start subcontracting non combat roles, its in all sorts of news articles, I realize that you still fill people for thoes jobs but someone could be 4 years into there 8 year contract and they could be shifted from the air force to pulling security along side the army, it happened and I can provide the link if need be. It is very important that people realize they are getting into something way beyond a civilian job.
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QuiltAngel
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Bace
I have not been able to access the resources I was wanting to as soon as I wanted to. I did find this that may be of help:
http://www.teamtruth.com/articles/art_militarychristians.htm#Finishing the Pacifist
As far as the core values talked about, they are: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage Take a look at the 10 Commandments and see how these can be seen in them.
Look at Matthew 15: 12-13 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Wow, this is what a Soldier is called upon to do, how much love and faith does this take? Should you do lay down your life for others, the eternal reward is like no other reward imaginable.
In the Warrior Ethos in the Soldier's Creed:
--I will always place the mission first
--I will never accept defeat
--I will never quit
--I will never leave a fallen comrade
Christ fulfilled that in His ministry, didn't he?
Now, there are going to be those who do not believe as you do, you will run into them in any job though. You will have plenty of opportunity to share your faith. I know my son has due to some of the items he has had us mail to him as well as things he has said.
There are going to be people who are not cut out for the military and there are those who are. Do your research and talk to those who have and are serving. Find out about things they experienced, both good and bad. Pray about your decision and if you find that God is leading you to serve, by all means serve and serve proudly all the time knowing that you have Jesus to lean on to get you through the hard times, even when you feel you are alone and wonder why you made the decision to enlist.
Once I get my hands on the other resources and if I have more to add, I will.
Praying for you as you make this decision.
I have not been able to access the resources I was wanting to as soon as I wanted to. I did find this that may be of help:
http://www.teamtruth.com/articles/art_militarychristians.htm#Finishing the Pacifist
As far as the core values talked about, they are: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage Take a look at the 10 Commandments and see how these can be seen in them.
Look at Matthew 15: 12-13 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Wow, this is what a Soldier is called upon to do, how much love and faith does this take? Should you do lay down your life for others, the eternal reward is like no other reward imaginable.
In the Warrior Ethos in the Soldier's Creed:
--I will always place the mission first
--I will never accept defeat
--I will never quit
--I will never leave a fallen comrade
Christ fulfilled that in His ministry, didn't he?
Now, there are going to be those who do not believe as you do, you will run into them in any job though. You will have plenty of opportunity to share your faith. I know my son has due to some of the items he has had us mail to him as well as things he has said.
There are going to be people who are not cut out for the military and there are those who are. Do your research and talk to those who have and are serving. Find out about things they experienced, both good and bad. Pray about your decision and if you find that God is leading you to serve, by all means serve and serve proudly all the time knowing that you have Jesus to lean on to get you through the hard times, even when you feel you are alone and wonder why you made the decision to enlist.
Once I get my hands on the other resources and if I have more to add, I will.
Praying for you as you make this decision.
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ICor1311
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Harrassment, by definition, is unwanted or unsolicited actions toward you. You can be sexually harrassed, verbally harrassed, physically harrassed, and any other type of harrassment there is. The military's policy on harrassment is 0% tolerancy. If a supervisor is found to be harrassing you, you take it up through your chain of command as you would with a civilian job.
When a person is in Basic Training, the Drill Instructor's role is to get out all of the civilian that is in you and bring you up military. They can not touch you.
Will a Drill Sergeant say things that are not inline with Christian beliefs and values. Sure. I can't say that everyone of them will. But, I'm sure you'll run into a your fair share. However, if your current employment is through McDonald's, will you have co-workers and supervisors that say things that are not inline with Christian values and beliefs? Sure. I'm sure, once again, you'll run into your fair share.
You have the opportunity to enlist into the Army as a Chaplain or Chaplain's assistant. How could you not do God's work working one of these, among other, positions?
Yes, you sign a contractual aggreement. It seems as if rppearso has had a horrible experience during her brief stay in the NG. I assure you this is not the case for everyone.
I've been in for 13 years. I haven't seen, been a part of, nor heard of the things rppearso speaks of. The Soldier sitting in front of me has been in the Army for 14 years. He has never heard of these things. The guy in front of him has been in the Army for 5 years. He has never heard of these things. A female Soldier has been in the Army for 18 years and she hasn't heard of these things.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's not the same for everyone. You may know a guy who loves his job at McDonald's, but you may not necessarily like it. It's different strokes for different folks.
The Army is the biggest branch of all the services with over 500,000 Soldiers currently enlisted. So far, you hear of 1 prior enlisted service member on this forum discrediting the military. You do the odds.
Good luck with your decisions.
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That is a good article and I agree with most all of it, but it does not address any of the points I made. My reasons for the military not being a good place for christians have nothing to do with national defense or pacivism, it has everything to do with the character of the people who will be placed above. The "hard times" that are spoken of are artificially produced and are times of enduring malice and heavy handedness.
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QuiltAngel
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I was replying to the original poster, who seems to have gotten lost in this thread who is a 17 year old thinking about enlisting who is hearing from people that Christians can not be in the Army and putting doubts in his mind regarding that. I am showing him that Christians can be in the Army.
rrpearso, you are going to find people in all walks of life, military and civilian, who are going to treat you bad, heavy handed and with malice. People sin and do things everyday that they shouldn't do. I am thinking that you were taken by surprise of some of the harshness in BCT or that you were just not use to it in your life. Could we consider you a pacifist and that is why you could not handle BCT?
You have warned the OP that the military is not all rosey. Why are you debating? Your intent to let others know the hard side of the Army goes beyond that that it seems like you won't stop until the OP says he is not enlisting. He has heard what you have to say, it is his and his parents decision, not yours. If you want to debate on the grounds that the military is the worse place anyone can find themselves based on your, and your's alone, experience, start your own thread. Your experience was horrible and many others have had nothing but good experiences. I think most would fall in the middle towards good experiences.
rrpearso, you are going to find people in all walks of life, military and civilian, who are going to treat you bad, heavy handed and with malice. People sin and do things everyday that they shouldn't do. I am thinking that you were taken by surprise of some of the harshness in BCT or that you were just not use to it in your life. Could we consider you a pacifist and that is why you could not handle BCT?
You have warned the OP that the military is not all rosey. Why are you debating? Your intent to let others know the hard side of the Army goes beyond that that it seems like you won't stop until the OP says he is not enlisting. He has heard what you have to say, it is his and his parents decision, not yours. If you want to debate on the grounds that the military is the worse place anyone can find themselves based on your, and your's alone, experience, start your own thread. Your experience was horrible and many others have had nothing but good experiences. I think most would fall in the middle towards good experiences.
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QuiltAngel
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Gwenyfur
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Bace,
G-d found me in the Marine Corps, never once did He ask or direct me to leave the service of my country. In fact, He led me quite a merry chase through my career...
Chaplains are indeed great people, but no matter what branch or MOS you choose, you will be challenged...but those challenges build character, values, honor and a mental discipline that will do you well in live...
Whether you choose a combat MOS, or a support MOS you will still receive training and live in a structure of internal discipline.
It's served me well in my civilian life and it's an experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.
G-d found me in the Marine Corps, never once did He ask or direct me to leave the service of my country. In fact, He led me quite a merry chase through my career...
Chaplains are indeed great people, but no matter what branch or MOS you choose, you will be challenged...but those challenges build character, values, honor and a mental discipline that will do you well in live...
Whether you choose a combat MOS, or a support MOS you will still receive training and live in a structure of internal discipline.
It's served me well in my civilian life and it's an experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.
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Thoes are definatly tools God uses to tenderize us to be like him, hard times build perserverance and it is not nessicarily the devil or God punishing us but just God working to make us like him and its much easier if you fall on the cap stone rather than the cap stone fall on you (cap stone being Jesus). I just seen way to many things in the military inconsistant with christian life, God delivered me out of basic but I was not going to tempt fate a second time in OCS when I made it through basic by the skin of my teeth.
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