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John Piper on the wealth-and-prosperity doctrine:

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Celticflame

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John Piper on the wealth-and-prosperity doctrine:
But a wealth-and-prosperity doctrine is afoot today, shaped by the half truth that says, "We glorify God with our money by enjoying thankfully all the things he enables us to buy. Why should a son of the King live like a pauper?" And so on. The true half of this is that we should give thanks for every good thing God enables us to have. That does glorify him. The false half is the subtle implication that God can be glorified in this way by all kinds of luxurious purchases.

If this were true, Jesus would not have said, "Sell your possessions and give alms" (Luke 12:33). He would not have said, "Do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink" (Luke 12:29). John the Baptist would not have said, "He who has two coats, let him share with who has none" (Luke 3:11). The Son of Man would not have walked around with no place to lay his head (Luke 9:58). And Zacchaeus would not have given half his goods to the poor (Luke 19:8).

God is not glorified when we keep for ourselves (no matter how thankfully) what we ought to be using to alleviate the misery of unevangelized, uneducated, unmedicated, and unfed millions. The evidence that many professing Christians have been deceived by this doctrine is how little they give and how much they own. God has prospered them. And by an almost irresistible law of consumer culture (baptized by a doctrine of health, wealth, and prosperity) they have bought bigger (and more) houses, newer (and more) cars, fancier (and more) clothes, better (and more) meat, and all manner of trinkets and gadgets and containers and devices and equipment to make life more fun.

They will object: Does not the Old Testament promise that God will prosper his people? Indeed! God increases our yield so that by giving we can prove our yield is not our god. God does not prosper a man's business so he can move from a Ford to a Cadillac. God prospers a business so that 17,000 unreached peoples can be reached with the gospel. He prospers a business so that twelve percent of the world's population can move a step back from the precipice of starvation. [size=-1]quoted from Chap7 - Money: The currency of Christian Hedonism. Desiring God by John Piper[/size]
 

SavedByGrace3

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Pure imagination.
Another ignorant person who really has no idea what he is talking about.
If the people he describes exist.... I have never met one.
 
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JimB

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didaskalos said:
Pure imagination.
Another ignorant person who really has no idea what he is talking about.
If the people he describes exist.... I have never met one.
This is very condescending, Dids. You might want to listen to him. Just because he doesn’t fit into a preconceived doctrinal bias does not mean he is wrong.

\o/







 
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SavedByGrace3

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Jim M said:
This is very condescending, Dids. You might want to listen to him. Just because he doesn’t fit into a preconceived doctrinal bias does not mean he is wrong.

\o/








It is just the few comments shows the individual really has not idea what he is talking about when he speaks to this issue. It has nothing to do with whether I agree or not. In fact in some ways I might agree that there is error. But the comments given really do not apply with the topic that is being addressed.
If someone is going to criticize a topic.. they ought to at least know what that topic says. Otherwise they just make themselves look ignorant to those who do have knowledge of the topic.

For instance:
But a wealth-and-prosperity doctrine is afoot today, shaped by the half truth that says, "We glorify God with our money by enjoying thankfully all the things he enables us to buy.
?
Shaped by this??? I have been around these people for 35 years I cannot remember one of them making such a comment. Why not find something they do teach and present the error? Why just make something up out of nothing?

It is called a straw man:

"The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made."
 
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probinson

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Celticflame said:
Any Thoughts On This Topic?
....
If this were true, Jesus would not have said, "Sell your possessions and give alms" (Luke 12:33). He would not have said, "Do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink" (Luke 12:29). John the Baptist would not have said, "He who has two coats, let him share with who has none" (Luke 3:11). The Son of Man would not have walked around with no place to lay his head (Luke 9:58). And Zacchaeus would not have given half his goods to the poor (Luke 19:8).

God is not glorified when we keep for ourselves (no matter how thankfully) what we ought to be using to alleviate the misery of unevangelized, uneducated, unmedicated, and unfed millions. The evidence that many professing Christians have been deceived by this doctrine is how little they give and how much they own. God has prospered them. And by an almost irresistible law of consumer culture (baptized by a doctrine of health, wealth, and prosperity) they have bought bigger (and more) houses, newer (and more) cars, fancier (and more) clothes, better (and more) meat, and all manner of trinkets and gadgets and containers and devices and equipment to make life more fun.

They will object: Does not the Old Testament promise that God will prosper his people? Indeed! God increases our yield so that by giving we can prove our yield is not our god. God does not prosper a man's business so he can move from a Ford to a Cadillac. God prospers a business so that 17,000 unreached peoples can be reached with the gospel. He prospers a business so that twelve percent of the world's population can move a step back from the precipice of starvation. [size=-1]quoted from Chap7 - Money: The currency of Christian Hedonism. Desiring God by John Piper[/size]

The only problem with this is it presumes that one must have a Cadillac OR reach 17,000 people with the Gospel. Not true. One can have a Cadillac AND reach 17,000 people with the Gospel.

God is concerned with the condition of our heart. Someone can own a Cadillac and still make God first priority with a giving heart. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
 
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Rossi

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let me tell you I have 40 euro to my name yet i feel truly prospered.Properity gospel is a load of crap.I truly feel like i have life to the full.Afterall thats what Jesus said he would do.Give life to the full.Dont let Satan tell you otherwise.We are more then conquerers
 
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Christina M

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didaskalos said:
I don't think DM likes me ^_^


Does it really matter anymore, Dids, if they like us or not? Personally, I am sick and tired of trying to convince people that God wants them blessed.... they seem to take such pride in being poor.... and are self-righteous about it to boot.

It's just about as bad as casting pearl before swine.
ani1.gif
 
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Shalia

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You know, one of the Christian TV stations last night was telling me that if I only pledged $200/month for the next 3 months, I'd be guaranteed three miracles: a strife free home, incredible financial blessings, and supernatural health.

Sometimes I wonder how people can look at themselves in the mirror in the mornings when they do this stuff.

That show actually said things like "God won't open His hand to you until you open your hand to Him" and "Help us finance God's miracles in your life". Barf.
 
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catlover

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Shalia said:
You know, one of the Christian TV stations last night was telling me that if I only pledged $200/month for the next 3 months, I'd be guaranteed three miracles: a strife free home, incredible financial blessings, and supernatural health.

Sometimes I wonder how people can look at themselves in the mirror in the mornings when they do this stuff.

That show actually said things like "God won't open His hand to you until you open your hand to Him" and "Help us finance God's miracles in your life". Barf.

That makes me very sad. HOW can one guarentee someone's health and wealth with a pledge? Which station was it? I know Robert Tilton was pretty much humiliated and taken out of the picture.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Yuck...
I agree. That stinks.
Shalia said:
You know, one of the Christian TV stations last night was telling me that if I only pledged $200/month for the next 3 months, I'd be guaranteed three miracles: a strife free home, incredible financial blessings, and supernatural health.

Sometimes I wonder how people can look at themselves in the mirror in the mornings when they do this stuff.

That show actually said things like "God won't open His hand to you until you open your hand to Him" and "Help us finance God's miracles in your life". Barf.
 
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Jimmy West

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Celticflame said:
Any Thoughts On This Topic?




John Piper on the wealth-and-prosperity doctrine:
But a wealth-and-prosperity doctrine is afoot today, shaped by the half truth that says, "We glorify God with our money by enjoying thankfully all the things he enables us to buy. Why should a son of the King live like a pauper?" And so on. The true half of this is that we should give thanks for every good thing God enables us to have. That does glorify him. The false half is the subtle implication that God can be glorified in this way by all kinds of luxurious purchases.

If this were true, Jesus would not have said, "Sell your possessions and give alms" (Luke 12:33). He would not have said, "Do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink" (Luke 12:29). John the Baptist would not have said, "He who has two coats, let him share with who has none" (Luke 3:11). The Son of Man would not have walked around with no place to lay his head (Luke 9:58). And Zacchaeus would not have given half his goods to the poor (Luke 19:8).

God is not glorified when we keep for ourselves (no matter how thankfully) what we ought to be using to alleviate the misery of unevangelized, uneducated, unmedicated, and unfed millions. The evidence that many professing Christians have been deceived by this doctrine is how little they give and how much they own. God has prospered them. And by an almost irresistible law of consumer culture (baptized by a doctrine of health, wealth, and prosperity) they have bought bigger (and more) houses, newer (and more) cars, fancier (and more) clothes, better (and more) meat, and all manner of trinkets and gadgets and containers and devices and equipment to make life more fun.

They will object: Does not the Old Testament promise that God will prosper his people? Indeed! God increases our yield so that by giving we can prove our yield is not our god. God does not prosper a man's business so he can move from a Ford to a Cadillac. God prospers a business so that 17,000 unreached peoples can be reached with the gospel. He prospers a business so that twelve percent of the world's population can move a step back from the precipice of starvation. [size=-1]quoted from Chap7 - Money: The currency of Christian Hedonism. Desiring God by John Piper[/size]

You want truth, here's truth! God will prosper his children. But the only Christians he will prosper are those who are mature in spirit. Why? Eyes can not see, ears can not hear, minds can not perceive what God has for us. This alludes to the fact that God has something for us, but we can not see, hear or even imagine it. God wants to give us what he has for us, but he is NOT going to prosper a carnal Christian who will turn away from God as a result of his God-given prosperity. A Carnal Christian can not see, let alone, walk in his blessing from God. Why does God want a mature believer? A spiritually mature believer has given himself completely to God and made God absolutely first in his life. When the believer has done that, God knows that he can trust him with his spiritual AND material blessings because it is a given that that believer will use his blessing to grow the Kingdom and glorify God.
 
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Jimmy West

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Christina M said:
Does it really matter anymore, Dids, if they like us or not? Personally, I am sick and tired of trying to convince people that God wants them blessed.... they seem to take such pride in being poor.... and are self-righteous about it to boot.

It's just about as bad as casting pearl before swine.
ani1.gif

One reason is that there are Christians who are so caught up in their self-righteousness, they think that if god was going to bless anybody, he would surely bless them. And, since thay haven't been blessed, or prospered, that prosperity stuff must not be true. They don't understand that their flesh stands in the way and will block their blessing.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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There is a religious spirit of pride and false spirituality that tells us that being poor, sick, and depressed = holy.
It is not.
It is just being poor, sick, and depressed.
What is worse is this: most of those advocating this foolishness do not live it themselves. They advocate lack and want, all the while living the life of Riley. Yet they would deny these same blessings of prosperity and health to those who desperately need them.
There is nothing holy or spiritual about being impoverished, sick, and depressed.
There is only one way to the Father... that is by Jesus.
Jimmy West said:
One reason is that there are Christians who are so caught up in their self-righteousness, they think that if god was going to bless anybody, he would surely bless them. And, since thay haven't been blessed, or prospered, that prosperity stuff must not be true. They don't understand that their flesh stands in the way and will block their blessing.
 
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