John 3:16 is OSAS

[DeepWater]

John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS.
They are the same.
God's Grace is OSAS
John 3:16 is OSAS

Let me show you.
Lets study this together.

So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth.
Here is what it really means...
OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved.
We are KEPT saved by What saved Us.
= We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved.
Thats it.
Thats what it means.

And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life."

This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others.

So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS

Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it.

John 3:16........."For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son.

So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God.
So then..
He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so LOVED the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED".

Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life".
Listen Saint...
Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY.
"Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE".....
See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again.
Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now
= OSAS.
Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW.
You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now.
Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW.
Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW".
Know what?
What does John want you to KNOW? ? ?
That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE.
HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now.
So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ?

This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT.
The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.
Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you.
= OSAS.

blessings,

<dw><

 

[Not David]

John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS.
They are the same.
God's Grace is OSAS
John 3:16 is OSAS

Let me show you.
Lets study this together.

So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth.
Here is what it really means...
OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved.
We are KEPT saved by What saved Us.
= We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved.
Thats it.
Thats what it means.

And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life."

This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others.

So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS

Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it.

John 3:16........."For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son.

So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God.
So then..
He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so LOVED the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED".

Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life".
Listen Saint...
Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY.
"Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE".....
See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again.
Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now
= OSAS.
Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW.
You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now.
Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW.
Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW".
Know what?
What does John want you to KNOW? ? ?
That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE.
HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now.
So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ?

This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT.
The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.
Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you.
= OSAS.

blessings,

<dw><

That's impossible, since OSAS is a modern doctrine that neither Jesus nor the Apostles taught.

 

[topher694]

John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS.
They are the same.
God's Grace is OSAS
John 3:16 is OSAS

Let me show you.
Lets study this together.

So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth.
Here is what it really means...
OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved.
We are KEPT saved by What saved Us.
= We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved.
Thats it.
Thats what it means.

And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life."

This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others.

So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS

Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it.

John 3:16........."For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son.

So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God.
So then..
He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so LOVED the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED".

Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life".
Listen Saint...
Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY.
"Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE".....
See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again.
Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now
= OSAS.
Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW.
You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now.
Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW.
Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW".
Know what?
What does John want you to KNOW? ? ?
That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE.
HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now.
So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ?

This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT.
The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.
Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you.
= OSAS.

blessings,

<dw><

So, let me ask you a straight forward question. Simply put, in your own words, how does one become saved?

 

[eleos1954]

John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS.
They are the same.
God's Grace is OSAS
John 3:16 is OSAS

Let me show you.
Lets study this together.

So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth.
Here is what it really means...
OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved.
We are KEPT saved by What saved Us.
= We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved.
Thats it.
Thats what it means.

And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life."

This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others.

So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS

Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it.

John 3:16........."For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son.

So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God.
So then..
He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so LOVED the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED".

Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life".
Listen Saint...
Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY.
"Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE".....
See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again.
Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now
= OSAS.
Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW.
You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now.
Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW.
Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW".
Know what?
What does John want you to KNOW? ? ?
That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE.
HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now.
So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ?

This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT.
The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.
Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you.
= OSAS.

blessings,

<dw><

He gives eternal life to those who are following Him. We must continue in Him.

Hebrews 6

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

 

[Dansiph]

He gives eternal life to those who are following Him. We must continue in Him.

Hebrews 6

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

Isn't that talking about someone who rejects the gospel? I don't think it's talking about a saved Christian who falls away. Also, If we don't earn our salvation how can we lose it?

Edit: not just someone rejecting the gospel but someone who fully realises it and still rejects it

 

[eleos1954]

Isn't that talking about someone who rejects the gospel? I don't think it's talking about a saved Christian who falls away. Also, If we don't earn our salvation how can we lose it?

Edit: not just someone rejecting the gospel but someone who fully realises it and still rejects it

falling away

Strongs

parapiptó: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Original Word: παραπίπτω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: parapiptó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ap-ip'-to)
Definition: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Usage: I fall away, fall back (into the unbelieving and godless ways of the old time).
HELPS Word-studies
3895 parapíptō (from 3844 /pará, "from close-beside" and 4098 /píptō, "to fall") – properly, fall away, after being close-beside; to defect(abandon).

3895 /parapíptō ("fallen from a close position") refers to a close-follower of Christ who becomes a defector. It suggests this person (at least at one time) was a believer (note the para). 3895 (parapíptō) is only used in Heb 6:6.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Problem with OSAS? Hitler. Hitler was a catholic, thus Hitler went to heaven according to OSAS right?

Now the only line OSAS people know how to respond with is "Well he wasn't saved to begin with!". That's not a response that means anything. It's just a "I can't think of anything so I'll just say this overused line!".

Truth is OSAS is not a real thing. We are human. Humans are flawed. Humans change. Our views change. I've seen people who have spent their whole life saved, even became pastors. But suddenly turned against God and left christianity. You can't say they weren't saved to begin with given their decades of service to God.

 

[MDC]

Problem with OSAS? Hitler. Hitler was a catholic, thus Hitler went to heaven according to OSAS right?

Now the only line OSAS people know how to respond with is "Well he wasn't saved to begin with!". That's not a response that means anything. It's just a "I can't think of anything so I'll just say this overused line!".

Truth is OSAS is not a real thing. We are human. Humans are flawed. Humans change. Our views change. I've seen people who have spent their whole life saved, even became pastors. But suddenly turned against God and left christianity. You can't say they weren't saved to begin with given their decades of service to God.

Mathew 7:21-23 speaks of those of whom Christ NEVER knew, even though outwardly they showed to have signs of being saved. For you to judge one as saved even though they did not endure in faith is to say a good tree brings forth evil fruit. Mathew 7:16-19. Eternal security and perseverance in faith is eternal life in Christ. All of grace and the work of God in the believer. Do you believe what your avatar says?

 

[St_Worm2]

He gives eternal life to those who are following Him. We must continue in Him.

Hebrews 6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

Hi eleos1954/@Aspzan, I believe the people being referred to in Hebrews 6:4-6 are the same 1st Jewish ~almost~ Christians as those who are later spoken of in Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is anything but clear. It uses the language of tasting, sampling and participating, but it never says anything like, "In the case of those who were once saved....". It's referring to 1st Century Jews who participated in the life of the church for a time, who understood who Jesus was and their need for Him as their Savior and Lord, but in the end, like so many today, never accepted Him as such.

Then there is this from Chapter 10.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.​

Like the passage from Hebrews 6, the discussion here concerns 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ Christians. The sin that was being willfully continued in here was the rejection of Jesus as Savior and Lord, by those who knew better because they had already received the knowledge of the truth" about Him and they refused to accept it. So for them, as for those spoken of in Hebrews 6, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES."

Finally, NO ONE who has truly come to Jesus and been saved by Him continues on in "willful sin". That is, after all, the principle characteristic of a non-Christian, not someone who has truly been born again.

--David
p.s. - as for @eleos1954's opening statment, αἰώνιος [aionios] always means "eternal" (~not~ temporal or probationary) life! If someone is ~truly~ saved (not CINO), then they are saved, eternally, and that from the moment they first believe .. e.g. John 5:24.

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
ALL that the Father gives Me will come to me .. and of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.​

.

 

[St_Worm2]

Problem with OSAS? Hitler. Hitler was a catholic, thus Hitler went to heaven according to OSAS right?

Hi NothingIsImpossible, there are problems with OSAS to be sure (because people have turned the meaning of OSAS into something that it was never meant to be), but that isn't one of them

OSAS was never supposed to mean that someone could simply say some words, and/or attend church, and they're "in" (so to speak), no matter how they live for the rest of their life. True Christians 'act' like Christians, those who are CINO, do not!

When people get OSAS wrong, it's normally because they haven't considered what it's actually teaching. They tend skip rather flippantly over the first half, the "OS" half, and jump straight to the "AS" half instead. What OSAS actually means is that someone who was, "ONCE SAVED", will always be saved. The problem with Hitler is, he was NEVER saved to begin with (His life and his beliefs are a demonstration of that fact).

Simply being Catholic (or Protestant), even when church is attended regularly doesn't make someone a Christian any more than eating at McDonald's regularly makes them a hamburger I should know. I was baptized as an infant and raised in the Church. I loved it, in fact (for the most part) and I always believed that I was a "Christian" (why would I not have ) .. until 2 months after my 30th birthday, that is, on the day that I finally became one

--David
p.s. - Hitler was NEVER one of the Lord's "sheep" On the other hand, we who hear, believe and follow Him, do so because we ARE His sheep, and He gives us ETERNAL life (and we will NEVER perish ).

John 10
26 You do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.​

.

 

[eleos1954]

Hi eleos1954/@Aspzan, I believe the people being referred to in Hebrews 6:4-6 are the same 1st Jewish ~almost~ Christians as those who are later spoken of in Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is anything but clear. It uses the language of tasting, sampling and participating, but it never says anything like, "In the case of those who were once saved....". It's referring to 1st Century Jews who participated in the life of the church for a time, who understood who Jesus was and their need for Him as their Savior and Lord, but in the end, like so many today, never accepted Him as such.

Then there is this from Chapter 10.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.​

Like the passage from Hebrews 6, the discussion here concerns 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ Christians. The sin that was being willfully continued in here was the rejection of Jesus as Savior and Lord, by those who knew better because they had already received the knowledge of the truth" about Him and they refused to accept it. So for them, as for those spoken of in Hebrews 6, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES."

Finally, NO ONE who has truly come to Jesus and been saved by Him continues on in "willful sin". That is, after all, the principle characteristic of a non-Christian, not someone who has truly been born again.

--David
p.s. - as for @eleos1954's opening statment, αἰώνιος [aionios] always means "eternal" (~not~ temporal or probationary) life! If someone is ~truly~ saved (not CINO), then they are saved, eternally, and that from the moment they first believe .. e.g. John 5:24.

John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
ALL that the Father gives Me will come to me .. and of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.​

.

"Finally, NO ONE who has truly come to Jesus and been saved by Him continues on in "willful sin". That is, after all, the principle characteristic of a non-Christian, not someone who has truly been born again."


Paul struggled with it and certainly he was born again.

Romans 7

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me

 

[DeepWater]

That's impossible, since OSAS is a modern doctrine that neither Jesus nor the Apostles taught.

What you meant, David, is that its a modern doctrine to a legalist,....is how they would explain it.
But understand.... the context of OSAS, the root of it, the foundation of it, was established by Christ on a Cross.
Jesus established OSAS, on Calvary, using His Blood.
Jesus established that... Once He Saved you, He keeps you saved.....the very same way.
(Blood Atonement).
We dont do this you see.........Jesus saves us........Jesus is the Savior, not us, not our works, not our water baptism, not our commandment keeping....not our church joining.... not our opinion....etc.

So, OSAS is a "doctrine" that was established a bit before all the more recent Legalism outrage against Grace became their "FLAG" they wave.
Imagine a pack of heretics running around the world, denying The Cross and Christ on it, FULL CREDIT for saving them and keeping them saved, ...by trying to substitute commandment keeping, lifestyle, being good enough, doing good enough...
This type of heresy tends to make a real Believer fill with "righteous indignation" because they realize that our Precious Savior is being short changed and demoted by LEGALISM that is running rampant on forums like this one, and on every other Christian forum you can find. They are infected with it.

But rest assured, The Blood Atonement, created the eternal reality that once Jesus has saved you with HIS BLOOD, He will Keep you saved, with HIS BLOOD. This is OSAS. Not a new "doctrine", but actually its just the Grace of God. OSAS is just the simple Truth of giving Jesus full credit for what He did on The Cross.
Legalism, is a rabid heresy that tries to take full credit away from Jesus and what He did on the Cross, by trying to subvert redemption, the Gospel......with WORKS.
Its Satanic.
Paul described it as "falling from Grace" and Galatians 1:8
OSAS was in place long before any commentaries you are reading led you to believe, unfortunately, what you are believing now.

Here is a verse for you, that was in the Koine Greek, then the 1611 KJV, quite a while before the commentary or teacher mislead you about the "doctrine" of OSAS.
Believe it.

Philippians 1:6 is yet another "proof verse" along with John 3:16 that states that God saved us, Jesus is the Savior, and Salvation is a finished redemption that does not allow or accept any mishandling of its eternal security. = OSAS

And here is a song to go with the verse that proves OSAS, and maybe if you hear the words you'll have a better understanding of the Grace of God, which IS OSAS.

Now David, if you listen to this song, and you are confused as to who 'HE" is.....in the song.....its the same HE, that is found in Philippians 1:6. and the "work" that is started and complete, is your SALVATION. This is OSAS
The "HE" in the song is GOD Thru Christ
-
-
-

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

What you meant, David, is that its a modern doctrine to a legalist,....is how they would explain it.
But understand.... the context of OSAS, the root of it, the foundation of it, was established by Christ on a Cross.
Jesus established OSAS, on Calvary, using His Blood.
Jesus established that... Once He Saved you, He keeps you saved.....the very same way.
(Blood Atonement).
We dont do this you see.........Jesus saves us........Jesus is the Savior, not us, not our works, not our water baptism, not our commandment keeping....not our church joining.... not our opinion....etc.

So, OSAS is a "doctrine" that was established a bit before all the more recent Legalism outrage against Grace became their "FLAG" they wave.
Imagine a pack of heretics running around the world, denying The Cross and Christ on it, FULL CREDIT for saving them and keeping them saved, ...by trying to substitute commandment keeping, lifestyle, being good enough, doing good enough...
This type of heresy tends to make a real Believer fill with "righteous indignation" because they realize that our Precious Savior is being short changed and demoted by LEGALISM that is running rampant on forums like this one, and on every other Christian forum you can find. They are infected with it.

But rest assured, The Blood Atonement, created the eternal reality that once Jesus has saved you with HIS BLOOD, He will Keep you saved, with HIS BLOOD. This is OSAS. Not a new "doctrine", but actually its just the Grace of God. OSAS is just the simple Truth of giving Jesus full credit for what He did on The Cross.
Legalism, is a rabid heresy that tries to take full credit away from Jesus and what He did on the Cross, by trying to subvert redemption, the Gospel......with WORKS.
Its Satanic.
Paul described it as "falling from Grace" and Galatians 1:8
OSAS was in place long before any commentaries you are reading led you to believe, unfortunately, what you are believing now.

Here is a verse for you, that was in the Koine Greek, then the 1611 KJV, quite a while before the commentary or teacher mislead you about the "doctrine" of OSAS.
Believe it.

Philippians 1:6 is yet another "proof verse" along with John 3:16 that states that God saved us, Jesus is the Savior, and Salvation is a finished redemption that does not allow or accept any mishandling of its eternal security. = OSAS

And here is a song to go with the verse that proves OSAS, and maybe if you hear the words you'll have a better understanding of the Grace of God, which IS OSAS.

Now David, if you listen to this song, and you are confused as to who 'HE" is.....in the song.....its the same HE, that is found in Philippians 1:6. and the "work" that is started and complete, is your SALVATION. This is OSAS
The "HE" in the song is GOD Thru Christ
-
-
-

So Hitler went to heaven then since OSAS is real?

 

[St_Worm2]

So Hitler went to heaven then since OSAS is real?

Again, as in post #10 above, OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved. Hilter was Never Saved, therefore he is Always Lost. OSAS does not apply to unbelievers, obviously

 

[St_Worm2]

Paul struggled with it (sin) and certainly he was born again.

Hi again eleos1954, all Christians struggle with sin, but we don't continue on sinning willfully as a lifestyle, or chances are more than just good that we were never born again. This is always true for those who have come to understand the truth about Jesus, but they continue to reject Him anyway (like those spoken of in Hebrews 10:26-27 were guilty of doing).

Those who claim to be Christians, but continue to live an unrepentant, sinful lifestyle, should not be believed, and their "claim" of being such should not be considered as anything more than that. These are CINO, because they were never saved .. no matter what their "claims" may be

--David

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Again, as in post #10 above, OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved. Hilter was Never Saved, therefore he is Always Lost. OSAS does not apply to unbelievers, obviously

If being saved is open to anyone, then he became saved. How can OSAS not apply to him? Not to mention salvation is open to anybody. Also how do you know if Hitler was not saved? I mean I don't know 100% for sure either of course. His actions would say he is not godly. But only God knows right?

This is my issue with OSAS. The only answer they know how to give is "Well so-and-so wasn't saved from the start then!". Which goes against Jesus message of salvation being open to anyone. Hence my view is Once Saved, Salvation Can Be Lost.

For example lets look at you. I'm sure you have flaws right? Would this mean you were never saved then? Or are you saying those who essentially don't change their life once saved aren't really saved? I can agree with that of course.

But I also believe you can be saved, lead a good life, then change and no longer be saved. Because no one can they were not saved to begin with because it wouldn't explain their Christ like life then. As a previous example I used, how can someone who has been a pastor their whole life, not ever been saved from the start?

In short, OSAS makes little sense when they then say "<name> was never saved then!" since the bible teaches the opposite. If you let Jesus into your heart and work on your life...etc and are saved. The moment you rebel can't mean you somehow were never saved then. Jesus never said "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Unless he stops believing later in life, then he was never saved at all."

 

[St_Worm2]

If being saved is open to anyone, then he became saved. How can OSAS not apply to him? Not to mention salvation is open to anybody. Also how do you know if Hitler was not saved? I mean I don't know 100% for sure either of course. His actions would say he is not godly. But only God knows right?

This is my issue with OSAS. The only answer they know how to give is "Well so-and-so wasn't saved from the start then!". Which goes against Jesus message of salvation being open to anyone. Hence my view is Once Saved, Salvation Can Be Lost.

For example lets look at you. I'm sure you have flaws right? Would this mean you were never saved then? Or are you saying those who essentially don't change their life once saved aren't really saved? I can agree with that of course.

But I also believe you can be saved, lead a good life, then change and no longer be saved. Because no one can they were not saved to begin with because it wouldn't explain their Christ like life then. As a previous example I used, how can someone who has been a pastor their whole life, not ever been saved from the start?

In short, OSAS makes little sense when they then say "<name> was never saved then!" since the bible teaches the opposite. If you let Jesus into your heart and work on your life...etc and are saved. The moment you rebel can't mean you somehow were never saved then. Jesus never said "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Unless he stops believing later in life, then he was never saved at all."

Hi again NothingIsImpossible, I'm not a fan of the OSAS doctrine (even though I believe it can be true if it's understood in a certain manner). I am a big fan of its older "cousin" (if you will), the Reformed doctrine known as, "The Perseverance of the Saints"*

Perhaps the principle way that we know whether or not someone was truly a Christian during their lives is if they persevered in the faith to the end (granted, no one perseveres perfectly, save the Lord Himself, of course). Hitler was CLEARLY not part of the Catholic or Christian faith in the middle or at the end of his life (or during any portion of his life that we know of .. we only knew that he was raised as a Catholic by his parents as a child).

As for salvation being open to all, it's only open to those who "believe", yes? So those who God "changes", who He "quickens" to spiritual life and causes to be "born again", who He makes into wholly "new creatures" in Christ, are also the very ones who He gives the "gift" of saving faith to which we exercise to believe. That said, we have no evidence whatsoever that Hitler ever believed in Jesus. His life, in fact, is one of the greatest testimonies in the whole of mankind's existence that he did not.

As for being "born again", and then somehow becoming UN-born again, how could such a thing happen We have unborn children in the womb, of course, but once they are born, they cannot become UN-born again.

There is also the matter of Jesus' teaching in John (which I will shorten again here by just using an excerpted portion of the passage for emphasis)

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.
​

Whenever anyone is drawn and given to Jesus by His Father, they always become Christians. If any of these saved ones ever reject Him and the faith at a later time, that would mean that Jesus was either lying to us when He said, "I LOSE NOTHING", or He had been deceived into believing it was true somehow!

Neither of those scenarios can be true, of course.

Gotta go for now. Sorry, this post, like one of my earlier ones to another member was rushed (I'll try to clean it up tomorrow if I think it needs to be for clarity's sake).

God bless you

--David
p.s. - here is one of my favorite definitions of the Perseverance of the Saints (if you care to read it).

*Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. ~Westminster Confession of Faith
.​

 

[Shimokita]

John 3:16, the most universally "known" bible verse ever created...(probably), actually teaches OSAS, and is in fact OSAS.
They are the same.
God's Grace is OSAS
John 3:16 is OSAS

Let me show you.
Lets study this together.

So....once again, let me define OSAS, so that you understand it properly, as there are many liars let loose in the world who have created a false misunderstanding about this term, and so, you need to know what it really means. The Truth.
Here is what it really means...
OSAS really means... What saved you.......keeps you saved.
We are KEPT saved by What saved Us.
= We are saved by JESUS, and we are Kept saved by Jesus. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
OSAS means, that the Blood of Jesus, that saved us, keeps us saved.
Thats it.
Thats what it means.

And here is John 3:16 that explains it as i have just defined it.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world......that HE GAVE His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN JESUS, would not PERISH, but HAS eternal-everylasting life."

This verse is one of the ways the NT defines OSAS, and there are many many others.

So, lets look at this scripture, in LIGHT of OSAS that means....>"we are saved by Jesus and we are KEPT SAVED by Jesus. = OSAS

Now, im going to drill down into this verse a little bit for you, so that you can get the wide perspective of it, in case you are a preacher, teacher, .... or maybe you want to do a Sunday School lesson on this verse, at some point. Therefore, (as always) i'll rightly divide it for you, using in context NT verses that support it.

John 3:16........."For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son.

So, how did God give Him?.......God gave Jesus THE Christ, as a virgin born male, who is the "2nd Adam" who does not literally have an earthly father, which means Jesus is not born with a fallen Adamic (sin nature). Jesus's spiritual nature, is God, because Jesus is God.
So then..
He lives a sinless life, and goes to the Cross and dies there..... bearing our Sin. (God so LOVED the world) the verse says and this is why and to whom Jesus was sacrified ...... And once this is accomplished...(Cross = Salvation), then Jesus says from the Cross...>"it is finished". And that is correct. Salvation, The Blood Atonement is now a completed OFFERING, to the WORLD, to all who would come.... Its a finished Salvation that is waiting to be given for free, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, to anyone who will by FAITH "believe on the name of Jesus, and you shall be SAVED".

Then.....and here comes OSAS.. you read in the verse that the born again who have obeyed this verse, (BELIEVED) will never "PERISH".....so, that is explained in John 10:28 were Jesus says you will never "perish", (can't go to hell, can't be damned)(eternal security)... and the born again are also GIVEN .. (you dont earn it) "Eternal Life".
Listen Saint...
Eternal life IS not a time frame.. ok? This phrase does not mean..."infinity and forever"..but rather, this is the POWER OF JESUS created concept that refers to living with Him and God, in the family of God, as the Body Of Christ, in ETERNITY.
"Eternal life", is Jesus Himself, who IS the "resurrection and the LIFE".....
See that "life"...... THAT is eternal Life.......and here it is again...... John 14:6... Jesus saying....."i am The Way, The Truth, and THE LIFE"......and there it is again.
Jesus is talking not about a time frame, but He is talking about HIMSELF< who IS Eternal Life... John 11:25 .. So,= this is OSAS......the fact that if you have Jesus..."Christ in you", and you are "in Christ", then because JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE< then you have it right now, because you have HIM right now, and He has YOU right now
= OSAS.
Your Eternal Life, does not start after you are DEAD...... You have it NOW.
You, the born again, are translated from darkness to Light.....right now.
Jesus is the Light of the World and you are Children of the Light.....right NOW.
Or as John says in 1 John 5:13 "i write these words so that you will KNOW".
Know what?
What does John want you to KNOW? ? ?
That if you have BELIEVED on CHRIST, then you have ETERNAL LIFE.
HAVE IT.........not waiting for it....but HAVE IT, = right now.
So, see how ALL that fits like a glove with John 3:16 ?

This is the interesting thing about OSAS.....This understanding, is all over the NT.
The NT is filled with verses that speak about how Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.
Paul will tell you. John just told you, and in fact the entire NT is the Blood of Jesus being written to you as a revelation of God, and how He saved you using a Cross and KEEPS YOU Saved with the Blood of Christ that was shed for you.
= OSAS.

blessings,

<dw><

In your opinion, does a person who is saved lack free will? In other words, is a person who is saved incapable of subsequently making a choice to reject our Lord?

 

[DeepWater]

So Hitler went to heaven then since OSAS is real?

OSAS is "real" because the shed Blood of Jesus, is a fact.
And regarding Hitler....
God so loved the world that He gave His Son for you, and Hitler.
If you have both been born again, then you'll both end up in Heaven.

Maybe you don't know this but the Apostle Paul was involved in the deaths of many Jewish Christians.
He was busy seeing to their deaths, just before God called Him to be the person that wrote most of the NT, and about 99% of the doctrine for the Church.
So, if Hitler is in Heaven, then he wont be the only former murderer who ended up saved and with Jesus after they died.

 

[DeepWater]

Again, as in post #10 above, OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved. Hilter was Never Saved, therefore he is Always Lost. OSAS does not apply to unbelievers, obviously

I would not think that Hitler is saved, but, as you can't know for certain, neither can I.
God would know, and the rest of us who are born again, will find out when we get there.