John 14 and the "ruler/chief" of World

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was reading thru John again and this verse struck out at me so I decided to see what it looked like in the greek.

What is interesting aboue this is how the same form of the word is used in 1 John concerning the "anti-christ" who he say was "in the world already". Are these the same "person"?

I also noticed the NKJV and NASB translate 1 John 4:3 differently. Thoughts?

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736), the of the world, this, ruler/Chief/arcwn <758> and in Me not he is having anything.

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the Antichrist is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736).

1 John 4:3 And every spirit which is no avowing the Jesus [Christ in flesh having-come] out of the God not is, and this is the of-the anti-christ, which ye have heard is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) and now in the world is already

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/index.htm

Textus Rec.)
1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun criston en sarki elhluqota ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

W-H ) 1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun ******* ** ****** ********* ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

NKJV) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the [spirit] of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

NASB) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

 

[mylittlelambs]

I think that the ruler of this world in which we live is Satan. He is ruling us now and we wil be saved by him when the time comes. That is why bad things happen to good people. It is not God testing us it is Satan trying to rip us from God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Coincidentally, John 18:3 show the "judas" coming that was sent out by the chief-priests and his minions.

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) the of the world this, ruler/Chief/arcwn <758>, and in Me not he is having anything.

John 18:3 Judas therefore having taken the band and officers out of the Chief-priests/arc-ierewn <749> and Pharisees is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736)thither with torches and lamps, and weapons;

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was going to start a thread on this and saw I had already started one awhile back.
I did a further study on where this particular form of the word #758 is used in other places using an Interlinear.

Amazingly, it is used 1 time in Revelation where Jesus proclaims Himself "chief/ruler" of the kings of the land.

This chief/ruler in John 14 is said to be coming in His day and he mentions "and in Me not he is having anything". This word is mentioned 37 times in the NT, mainly in the Gospels and Acts while being mentioned 4 times in Paul's Epistles.

It is mentioned 1 time in Revelation and that form used in John 14 is the same exact form used in Revelation!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) the Chief/arcwn <758> of this the world and in Me not he is having anything.

Reve 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the witness, the faithful, the firstborn of the dead-ones and the Chief/arcwn <758> of the Kings of the land.
Of the One loving us and loosing us from of the sins of us in the blood of Him

Strong's Number G758 matches the Greek &#7940;&#961;&#967;&#969;&#957; (arch&#333;n), which occurs 37 times in 36 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

758. archon ar'-khone present participle of 757; a first (in rank or power):--chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.

 

[brinny]

I think that the ruler of this world in which we live is Satan. He is ruling us now and we wil be saved by him when the time comes. That is why bad things happen to good people. It is not God testing us it is Satan trying to rip us from God.

I agree with you...i also believe that God does allow testing, just as He did with Job.....

this verse in particular comes to mind:

"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." ~Isaiah 48:10

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) the Chief/arcwn <758> of this the world and in Me not he is having anything.

Now we compare it to this rather controversial endtime verse in 1 John concerning the "anti-christ". [I myself view this as already fulfilled as do the Catholics I think]

Both use the same tense and it also appears that this would happen in the time the author penned it as he mentions "Last Hour". [would make for an interesting thread also, but not enuf time]

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the anti-christ is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736).
And now many anti-christs have become, whence we are knowing that last Hour it-is.

 

[brinny]

only thing is.....the "last hour" can mean so many things....i got a lot to meditate on....i know that Jesus used the term "now" in an urgent way...which meant we should not put off seeking forgiveness, turning from our wicked ways, and cleaving to God with all that is in us, and we should do that "now" ...seems similar to the terminology of "this hour"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

only thing is.....the "last hour" can mean so many things....i got a lot to meditate on....i know that Jesus used the term "now" in an urgent way...which meant we should not put off seeking forgiveness, turning from our wicked ways, and cleaving to God with all that is in us, and we should do that "now" ...seems similar to the terminology of "this hour"

Jesus also implies that in Revelation 1 and 22

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Here are the 3 places in Revelation that show that same form of the word "come". This is just fascinating to me

Reve 1:7 Behold! He is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) with the clouds

Reve 9:12 The woe the one departs, behold! is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) still two woes after these

Reve 11:14 The woe the second departs behold! the woe the third is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) swiftly.

ercetai <2064> (5736) Used 90 times in NT, 3 times in Revelation

 

[brinny]

sounds quite urgent, doesn't it? Ever get the feelin that Jesus has to speak in round a bout ways for a purpose, and only those eager to understand, will be given that understanding?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

sounds quite urgent, doesn't it? Ever get the feelin that Jesus has to speak in round a bout ways for a purpose, and only those eager to understand, will be given that understanding?

Most of Revelation appears to be "quite urgent".

The more I study on those "chief/antichrist" verses in John 12, the more I want to harmonize it to the jewish/hebrew book of Revelation.

I am still working on this but I found this extremely interesting

John 12:31 "Now judging is of this the world
Now the Chief/arcwn <758> of this the world shall be being cast out/ek-blhqhsetai <1544> (5701) without/exw <1854>.

Reve 12:9 And was cast/eblhqh <906> (5681) the dragon the great the serpent the ancient/arcaioV <744>, the one being called devil and the satan, the one deceiving the ones dwelling whole was cast into the land and the messengers of him were cast.

 

[brinny]

this is sooooooo interesting...gotta munch on that part "cast into the land"...whoa!

oh blah, i gotta go to work

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

John 16:11 is another verse Jesus mentions "the Chief and here it implies he has already been judged. It is also interesting the John is the only one of the Apostles that mentions "the antichrist".

This greek word for "judge" is used 114 times in the NT, including 9 times in Revelation.

What I found interesting is where the form of this greek word is used 1 other time. That in John 3:18!

I may have to take a break from this as this is a little more "involved" than I thought. Plus, I am also still learning the Greek eheehe

John 16:11 "About yet judging, that the Chief/arcwn <758> of this the world has been judged/kekritai <2919> (5769)

John 3:18 he who is believing in Him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged/kekritai <2919> (5769) already, because he hath not believed in the Name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Feel free to respond as I need more time to study on this. Thanks

 

[Zeena]

I was reading thru John again and this verse struck out at me so I decided to see what it looked like in the greek.

What is interesting aboue this is how the same form of the word is used in 1 John concerning the "anti-christ" who he say was "in the world already". Are these the same "person"?

I also noticed the NKJV and NASB translate 1 John 4:3 differently. Thoughts?

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736), the of the world, this, ruler/Chief/arcwn <758> and in Me not he is having anything.

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the Antichrist is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736).

1 John 4:3 And every spirit which is no avowing the Jesus [Christ in flesh having-come] out of the God not is, and this is the of-the anti-christ, which ye have heard is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) and now in the world is already

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

Textus Rec.)
1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun criston en sarki elhluqota ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

W-H ) 1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun ******* ** ****** ********* ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

NKJV) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the [spirit] of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

NASB) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Hrrm..

I would say, the same spirit of disobedience spoken of in Scripture;

Ephesians 2:1-2
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

 

[brinny]

I was reading thru John again and this verse struck out at me so I decided to see what it looked like in the greek.

What is interesting aboue this is how the same form of the word is used in 1 John concerning the "anti-christ" who he say was "in the world already". Are these the same "person"?

I also noticed the NKJV and NASB translate 1 John 4:3 differently. Thoughts?

John 14:30 "Not still much I shall be talking with ye, for is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736), the of the world, this, ruler/Chief/arcwn <758> and in Me not he is having anything.

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last Hour it-is and according-as ye hear that the Antichrist is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736).

1 John 4:3 And every spirit which is no avowing the Jesus [Christ in flesh having-come] out of the God not is, and this is the of-the anti-christ, which ye have heard is coming/ercetai <2064> (5736) and now in the world is already

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

Textus Rec.)
1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun criston en sarki elhluqota ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

W-H ) 1 John 4:3 kai pan pneuma o mh omologei ton ihsoun ******* ** ****** ********* ek tou qeou ouk estin kai touto estin to tou anticristou o akhkoate oti ercetai kai nun en tw kosmw estin hdh

NKJV) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the [spirit] of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

NASB) 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

i'm thinkin that it speaks in the sense that he (the enemy, satan) is in the world already...and he gains more and more souls as we speak....his deception is rampant and growing and more and more are asleep....

 

[Zeena]

i'm thinkin that it speaks in the sense that he (the enemy, satan) is in the world already...and he gains more and more souls as we speak....his deception is rampant and growing and more and more are asleep....

The Light of Christ is my very FAVORITE subject!

Isaiah 60:1
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Ephesians 5:13-16
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SwFYyO2dk

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i'm thinkin that it speaks in the sense that he (the enemy, satan) is in the world already...and he gains more and more souls as we speak....his deception is rampant and growing and more and more are asleep....

Jesus essentially said the same thing to these characters in Matt 23.

Revelation 18:13 is also an interesting verse and I have a study on this but haven't really looked at it in some time....
Guess I need to get cracking

Matt 23:27 "Woe to ye scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That ye are liken to tombs having been whitewashed who any outside indeed are appearing beautiful, inside yet are being crammed of bones of dead-ones and of every uncleaness.
28 Thus also ye outside indeed are appearing to the men righteous, inside yet, ye are distended of hypocisy and of lawlessness

Reve 18:13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and flocks and of horses and of chariots and of bodies/swmatwn <4983> and souls/yucaV <5590> of men.

 

[brinny]

The Light of Christ is my very FAVORITE subject!

Isaiah 60:1
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Ephesians 5:13-16
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SwFYyO2dk

His Light is my fav'rite subject too....

Love the song!!!

 

[brinny]

i be playin that song again...it speaks to me at this particular step in my journey....

God is good...

and yeah, the "ruler" of this world is indeed satan....and he be in a fury, cuz he knows his time is short.....we betta be wearin' dee armor, mon.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i be playin that song again...it speaks to me at this particular step in my journey....

God is good...

and yeah, the "ruler" of this world is indeed satan....and he be in a fury, cuz he knows his time is short.....we betta be wearin' dee armor, mon.

Repent! for the time is NIGH!

1 Peter 4:7 Of All-things yet The End Has-Neared/hggiken <1448> (5758)
be sane! then and be sober! into the prayers,

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is"
[Revelation 1:3]