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robert skynner

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‘I and my Father are one.’ (John 10:30, KJV).



‘ego kai ho patar ev esmen: (John 10:30: The Nestles Greek text).



‘I ((Subject)) and ((conjunction)) my Father ((object)) are ((verb 1st-person-plural)) one ((adjective)).’ (John 10:30, KJV).



Oneness people would need to explain the use of the verb ‘to be,’ which a first person plural at John 10:30; ‘I and my Father (we) are one.’ This verse does not record Jesus as saying; ‘I am the Father,’ for such a direct claim by Jesus to be God the Father, would have included the verb ‘to be’ in the first person singular: ‘I am.’ But Jesus at John 10:30 instead applies a plural verb to both the Father and also to the Son; ‘are’ as in ‘we are,’ which is the verb ‘to be,’ (esmen) a present tense, in first person plural. This is why he specifically claimed to be God’s Son, and not God the Father himself at John 10:36; ‘Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?’


Secondly, why is the Greek neuter word ‘hen’ for ‘one’ used at John 10:30 rather than the masculine Greek word for “one,” which is the Greek ‘heis?’ This masculine word is always used in the Greek, to describe God as ‘one’ in the strictly numeric sense, and so logically it would be the only word which Jesus could use to claim that he is himself really God the Father in an absolute and literal sense. So the neuter word ‘hen,’ just means to be ‘one in agreement’ or to be ‘one in unity’ with another person, it’s used that way at 1st Corinthians 3:8, where Paul planted and Apollos watered so that were one (hen), which doesn’t mean that Paul is claiming that he was Apollos! Paul is just saying that they worked together as a team, but not that they were both the same one person!

Here is a Youtube video of mine on John 10:30.

 
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rockytopva

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If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

God the Father is energy and light. He can disassociate the mass in plasma, and re-associate the plasma in mass to his liking. Mass cannot be destroyed but merely changes form. The mass of this universe may have changed form billions of times throughout the eternal ages.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

Christ Jesus proceeds from the Father
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father
All things proceed from the Father

The Father is God of all energy and light and is the one above all. Jesus testified of his power by saying,

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28

As far as the religious definitions of the trinity, many have contradicted one another. The video below explains why...

"The problem with using analogies to explain the Holy Trinity is that you always end up confessing some ancient heresy." - The Lutheran Satire

 
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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
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If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

God the Father is energy and light. He can disassociate the mass in plasma, and re-associate the plasma in mass to his liking. Mass cannot be destroyed but merely changes form. The mass of this universe may have changed form billions of times throughout the eternal ages.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

Christ Jesus proceeds from the Father
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father
All things proceed from the Father

The Father is God of all energy and light and is the one above all. Jesus testified of his power by saying,

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28

As far as the religious definitions of the trinity, many have contradicted one another. The video below explains why...

"The problem with using analogies to explain the Holy Trinity is that you always end up confessing some ancient heresy." - The Lutheran Satire


I have seen this excellent video, which directly contradicts and refutes your own use of E=MC squared, in your post, as modalism (oneness), but would you like to address the subject of this post which is John 10:30? Most of what you have written isn't even relevant to John 10:30. At no time have I mentioned the word Trinity in my post, the subject of which was John 10:30 and not the doctrine of the Trinity.

Here is a video of mine on John 10:30:

 
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rockytopva

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My main issue with the oneness Pentecostals is that they believe you receive everything at one time... As a Wesley Pentecostal I prefer to sticks with the methods...

1. Salvation - A simple profession of Christ
2. Sanctification - With a sweet spirit
3. The Holy Ghost - Let people receive it in their own way.



Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin... I wish all were encouraged to pick up their religion in these methods. ...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

...Quote...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
 
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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
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My main issue with the oneness Pentecostals is that they believe you receive everything at one time... As a Wesley Pentecostal I prefer to sticks with the methods...

1. Salvation - A simple profession of Christ
2. Sanctification - With a sweet spirit
3. The Holy Ghost - Let people receive it in their own way.



Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin... I wish all were encouraged to pick up their religion in these methods. ...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

...Quote...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.


Obviously you are free to post whatever you like, but I urge you to dialogue with me, and not to post endless unrelated verbiage as you have done. Your use of E=MC squared in post two was pure anti-Trinitrarian modalism, according to the video link to the two Patrick's video which you had also posted. Why sir, are you promoting modalism, would you be willing to address John 10:30 which I feel refutes your modalism.
 
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robert skynner

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I and my Father are one. - John 10:30

A family can be considered as one, with a father, mother, children, dogs, cats,etc. Christ is at one with his Father as he is in the family.

Now you are advocating Tritheism, i.e. a father, mother and child each have three separate substances, but are one in agreement: that's tri-theism. If you actually watch and study carefully that Two Patrick's video by Lutheran Satire, the link to which you gave, you will see that this video refutes both your own modalism as well as your tri-theism.
 
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robert skynner

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As far as the religious definitions of the trinity, many have contradicted one another. The video below explains why...

"The problem with using analogies to explain the Holy Trinity is that you always end up confessing some ancient heresy." - The Lutheran Satire


My post (post 1) is not about the Trinity, it's about John 10:30 and I do not give any anaologies, you have given two analogies one of which is modalism, the other of which is tri-theism, according to that video link which you have provided: The two Patricks: bad analogies.
 
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rockytopva

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Obviously you are free to post whatever you like, but I urge you to dialogue with me, and not to post endless unrelated verbiage as you have done. Your use of E=MC squared in post two was pure anti-Trinitrarian modalism, according to the video link to the two Patrick's video which you had also posted. Why sir, are you promoting modalism, would you be willing to address John 10:30 which I feel refutes your modalism.

All I know is that I am Wesleyan Pentecostal. I believe that the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus proceeded from the Father, and that these two trumpets are made out of the same piece, and all from God the Father...

 
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rockytopva

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My post (post 1) is not about the Trinity, it's about John 10:30 and I do not give any anaologies, you have given two analogies one of which is modalism, the other of which is tri-theism, according to that video link which you have provided: The two Patricks: bad analogies.

You ought to look up the LutheranSatire folks, you could provide them some good stuff for another video!
 
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robert skynner

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All I know is that I am Wesleyan Pentecostal. I believe that the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus proceeded from the Father, and that these two trumpets are made out of the same piece, and all from God the Father...


Again Rockytopva your comments are completely unrelated to anything which I have said. Don't you think that we would both be learning and growing, if we each addressed what the other has previously said? Otherwise, if every one of your new posts is completely unrelated to my previous comments, then we are both wasting our time by talking past the other, and not to the other. I have asked you to please explain and prove your modalistic (your E=MC squared analogy in post 2), and also your tri-theistic (post 5), understandings of God as having three separate substances. But now in post 9 sir, you are advocating that the Holy Spirit is "made out of" the Father and the Son, which is not Trinitarian, as the Holy Spirit is eternal, he proceeds from both, he is not made out of both as to be made out of implies that the Holy Spirit is created, which is yet another ancient heretical belief, so obscure that I do not know it's correct name, but it contradicts all the ancient creeds which state that the Holy Spirit is not made out of anything. Unless your reference to two trumpts being made out of another, instead refers to both the Son and Holy Spirit? You are kind of vague, it's extremely difficult to even dialogue with you, and so I guess I'll pass on any further dialogue with you sir.
 
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robert skynner

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You ought to look up the LutheranSatire folks, you could provide them some good stuff for another video!


I downloaded about 50 Lutheran satire videos about a year ago, I guess you don't read my posts, which is why ever one of your posts simply changes the topic. I will not be replying to you any further, as you don't seem will to dialogue with me, you ignore everything I write.
 
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robert skynner

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I do not know what kind of mental web you have sewn in that mind of yours. I believe that the Son and the Holy SPirit proceeded from the Father, as in all things. Jesus is at one with the Father as he is part of the family.

God is not a family, your back to advocating tri-theism.
 
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rockytopva

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God is not a family, your back to advocating tri-theism.


I actually replied to this thread to support your arguments that the oneness Pentecostals had the trinity thing wrong. I am not oneness Pentecostal, I am Wesleyan Pentecostal.
 
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robert skynner

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I actually replied to this thread to support your arguments that the oneness Pentecostals had the trinity thing wrong. I am not oneness Pentecostal, I am Wesleyan Pentecostal.


OK, thank you Rockytopva.
 
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rockytopva

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For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29

A consuming fire is E/c2, or plasma energy.

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. - Matthew 26:64

Again, Christ Jesus sitting on the right hand of power (Dynamis), or God the Father.
 
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rockytopva

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Solomon says, "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?" - 1 Kings 8:27

I believe that the Holy Spirit and Christ Jesus proceeded from the Father, and are at one with him as a family. But God the Father is mightier, as says the Christ....

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28
 
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robert skynner

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But God the Father is mightier, as says the Christ....

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28

Now you are promoting Arianism, the word for "greater" at John 14:28 means rank or position, here is an old post of mine on that verse. I bet you don't even read this and then change the topic.

“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).



The word “Greater” in John 14:28 is “mezion” which implies the sense of a higher rank or number, but it does not mean; “to be better than”. This Greek word “mezion” is used again in verse 12 of John chapter 14, where the apostles are here told that they will do “greater” (mezion) things than Jesus did. Now the apostles did not outperform Jesus, by working better miracles than he. They never for example did these apostles out-do the resurrection by way of an illustration, or out-perform Jesus. But they did, between all twelve of them, do far more miracles (in number) than Jesus ever did. So this word “greater,” means more miracles, or a greater number of signs in John 14:12.


So at John 14:28 Jesus here deliberately AVOIDS the use the word “plion; (4119 in Strong’s), which he uses at Matthew 12:41; “behold a greater ((plion)) than Jonas is here.” This Greek word “Plion” means better than, or superior in nature. So Jesus is clearly saying that he is better than Jonas in Matthew 12:41, in the sense that he is of a superior nature and substance. But in John 14:28, he is speaking in his humble human state, a state of humiliation (Phil 2:7). So here he uses the word “mezion” to teach that he is willingly subordinate to the Father, in this humble state during the incarnation. So Jesus is not less than the Father or inferior by nature. Otherwise John 14:28 would say so clearly by using the Greek word which means this, this word is “Plion.”


So in conclusion, Mezion cannot mean "better than" otherwise this word mezion would be implying that the 12 apostles would work "Better" miracles than Jesus himself. It rather simply means rank, and is also used to signify this at John 15:20, Luke 22:22-24, Matthew 11:11 and Romans 9:12.
 
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