Joe Six-Pack American?

reverend B · Oct 3, 2008

ParsonJefferson said:
Kinda like leftists, who didn't graduate from either Yale or Harvard, carping about how stupid George Bush is.

his intellectual record is public record. books the size of bibles are at your local b&n showing his inability to navigate the english language. his speaking ability, whether teleprompted or off the cuff, speak volumes of how his mind works, or doesn't. his choices while in office have been disastrous. he is either stupid or evil. i have decided he is stupid.
i could be wrong.
i am wondering why you are so concerned about everyones credentials, though. methinks the lady doth protest too much. what is it about your own background that you are insecure about that you feel the need to attack everyone elses?

Braunwyn · Oct 3, 2008

reverend B said:
his intellectual record is public record. books the size of bibles are at your local b&n showing his inability to navigate the english language. his speaking ability, whether teleprompted or off the cuff, speak volumes of how his mind works, or doesn't. his choices while in office have been disastrous. he is either stupid or evil. i have decided he is stupid.
i could be wrong.

I agree. I don't think he is evil, though I realize some do. I think he's probably of average intelligence and he's been in over his head as pres.

i am wondering why you are so concerned about everyones credentials, though. methinks the lady doth protest too much. what is it about your own background that you are insecure about that you feel the need to attack everyone elses?

eldermike · Oct 3, 2008

Bush is a brilliant man. I am sure there is a book on this fact.....

And if there is a book on this fact, that settles it.............

Matthew_18:14 · Oct 3, 2008

reverend B said:
your argument doesn't address what palin is suggesting, and if she is representative of the type of person she thinks should hold high public office, i submit her inability to converse on a very basic political level as evidence that she is badly mistaken. this is ambition overtaking ability.

You may believe what you want to believe, but I would submit that a leader doesn't have to know everything to be a good leader. A leader needs to know how to ask questions and who those questions should be directed too. Wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know, not from the belief that you know everything (this isn't directed at Obama). So if, like you say, ambition is overtaking ability, then yes, she wouldn't make a good president, but if she can lead and knows how to ask the right questions, then she would make a fine president.

Obama is as much out of step with world leaders as she is. He hasn't been in the game long enough to know the intricasies of foreign affairs. Biden has also stumbled a few times when it comes to the knowledge of foreign affairs and I wouldn't doubt that McCain has done the same. Truth be told, a leader must know what information he/she needs and who to get it from. Then they need to know what to do with that information. I honestly don't think that either of the candidates is a good choice, but I'll end up voting for one of them.

reverend B · Oct 3, 2008

Matthew_18:14 said:
You may believe what you want to believe, but I would submit that a leader doesn't have to know everything to be a good leader. A leader needs to know how to ask questions and who those questions should be directed too. Wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know, not from the belief that you know everything (this isn't directed at Obama). So if, like you say, ambition is overtaking ability, then yes, she wouldn't make a good president, but if she can lead and knows how to ask the right questions, then she would make a fine president.

Obama is as much out of step with world leaders as she is. He hasn't been in the game long enough to know the intricasies of foreign affairs. Biden has also stumbled a few times when it comes to the knowledge of foreign affairs and I wouldn't doubt that McCain has done the same. Truth be told, a leader must know what information he/she needs and who to get it from. Then they need to know what to do with that information. I honestly don't think that either of the candidates is a good choice, but I'll end up voting for one of them.

thank you, first of all, for providing me permission to have my beliefs. i am much relieved.
what her inability to answer very simple questions about very basic political issues indicates is a total lack of curiosity about the very issues she will be asked to be central in deciding policy on if she became potus. that is ambition outreaching ability. she has not been engaged in the issues of the day before being tapped for the vp slot, and only has a passing interest now because of what it may mean for her own personal advancement. this is a person that has been hungry for the spotlight since she was very young, searching out the most public ways to shine her light. beauty queen, tv sports anchor. these are not ways to dilligently pursue serving the public. that has not been her motivation in her life. she wants the follow spot on her on an otherwise empty stage.
i am predicting the spotlight will go out and her 15 minutes will be up.

chaim · Oct 3, 2008

While I tend to agree with your statement below, I also see it a little differently. I agree that no leader can know everything about everything, there aren't enough hours in the day. However a good leader will listen to those who do know and surround themselves with as many experts as possible. But at the same time I would also take depth and breadth of knowledge as evidence that a candidate is doing just that, listening to the experts. I think Mccain, Biden and Obama demonstrate this fairly well. While there maybe differences in their educational backgrounds, they are all quite knowledgeable about the issues and have enlisted and listened to the relevant experts. This is where Palin scares me the most. It is almost as if she is proud of her lack of knowledge about the issues.

For me a test of a candidates ability to seek good advice is to compare their opinios on an issue that I am an 'expert' on. In my case it is climate change. It is hard for me to think that Palin is truley listening to expert advice on the issue when her stance directly opposes every scientific institute and advisory panel in the country. Secondly the obvious inconsistency of her comments with regards to climate change in the debate are astounding. How is it possible to fight climate change if we don't understand the cause?

Matthew_18:14 said:
You may believe what you want to believe, but I would submit that a leader doesn't have to know everything to be a good leader. A leader needs to know how to ask questions and who those questions should be directed too. Wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know, not from the belief that you know everything (this isn't directed at Obama). So if, like you say, ambition is overtaking ability, then yes, she wouldn't make a good president, but if she can lead and knows how to ask the right questions, then she would make a fine president.

Obama is as much out of step with world leaders as she is. He hasn't been in the game long enough to know the intricasies of foreign affairs. Biden has also stumbled a few times when it comes to the knowledge of foreign affairs and I wouldn't doubt that McCain has done the same. Truth be told, a leader must know what information he/she needs and who to get it from. Then they need to know what to do with that information. I honestly don't think that either of the candidates is a good choice, but I'll end up voting for one of them.

MachZer0 · Oct 3, 2008

chaim said:
While I tend to agree with your statement below, I also see it a little differently. I agree that no leader can know everything about everything, there aren't enough hours in the day. However a good leader will listen to those who do know and surround themselves with as many experts as possible. But at the same time I would also take depth and breadth of knowledge as evidence that a candidate is doing just that, listening to the experts. I think Mccain, Biden and Obama demonstrate this fairly well. While there maybe differences in their educational backgrounds, they are all quite knowledgeable about the issues and have enlisted and listened to the relevant experts. This is where Palin scares me the most. It is almost as if she is proud of her lack of knowledge about the issues.

For me a test of a candidates ability to seek good advice is to compare their opinios on an issue that I am an 'expert' on. In my case it is climate change. It is hard for me to think that Palin is truley listening to expert advice on the issue when her stance directly opposes every scientific institute and advisory panel in the country. Secondly the obvious inconsistency of her comments with regards to climate change in the debate are astounding. How is it possible to fight climate change if we don't understand the cause?

She didn't say she didn't understand the cause. she said she didn't want to argue over the cause. And she later said we have to cut carbon emissions as part of the solution which indicates she believes the cause is manmade. You object to that?

chaim · Oct 3, 2008

I don't object to her solution, I object to her logic and her rejection of the advice of the scientist the government employs to advise them on this topic. Without agreeing on the cause we cannot agree on a solution, it is that simple. She is also on the record saying:

A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.

Her position is entirely inconsistent.

MachZer0 said:
She didn't say she didn't understand the cause. she said she didn't want to argue over the cause. And she later said we have to cut carbon emissions as part of the solution which indicates she believes the cause is manmade. You object to that?

Billnew · Oct 3, 2008

I didn't think the average person would want to refered to as Joe 6 pack. Infering a
beer drinking blue collar worker.
Seems Joe American, or Average Joe, would have been a better symbol.

But better Joe sixpack rather then

Bitter Americans clinging to thier guns and religion

.

Braunwyn · Oct 3, 2008

Honestly, beer didn't even come to my mind. I thought the term was referring to abs lol and then I wondered how McCain/Palin correlated with fit people. Eh.

reverend B · Oct 3, 2008

Billnew said:
I didn't think the average person would want to refered to as Joe 6 pack. Infering a
beer drinking blue collar worker.
Seems Joe American, or Average Joe, would have been a better symbol.

But better Joe sixpack rather then
.

do you understand what obama was saying with that now abused sound bite? he was saying that the working person has suffered so badly under republican rule that they are clinging to the one thing that they think might be upheld under republican rule. they are strung along with the rhetoric about anything God related and gun rights to keep them holding on to the republican dream of everyone being successful and rich and happy. the demons are invented for them to joust against, the government or the msm or gays. they are now starving, losing homes, health care, jobs, futures, retirements. but i will have my gun and my kid will be led in prayer by the principal over the loudspeaker. that's all i have left to hope for, and they are clinging to it.
the grip is weakening. finally "joe six pack" is seeing there is something more at stake, and there are other ways of looking at the problem than just getting the government out of the way.
he was not attacking these people. he was being their advocate against a party that abandonded them 35 years ago.

ParsonJefferson · Oct 3, 2008

reverend B said:
do you understand what obama was saying with that now abused sound bite? he was saying that the working person has suffered so badly under republican rule that they are clinging to the one thing that they think might be upheld under republican rule. they are strung along with the rhetoric about anything God related and gun rights to keep them holding on to the republican dream of everyone being successful and rich and happy. the demons are invented for them to joust against, the government or the msm or gays. they are now starving, losing homes, health care, jobs, futures, retirements. but i will have my gun and my kid will be led in prayer by the principal over the loudspeaker. that's all i have left to hope for, and they are clinging to it.
the grip is weakening. finally "joe six pack" is seeing there is something more at stake, and there are other ways of looking at the problem than just getting the government out of the way.
he was not attacking these people. he was being their advocate against a party that abandonded them 35 years ago.

So glad you put the proper spin on it, and explained away why those stupid and offensive things Obama said were, indeed witty, poignant and - darn it - downright brilliant.

Thank you.

reverend B · Oct 3, 2008

ParsonJefferson said:
So glad you put the proper spin on it, and explained away why those stupid and offensive things Obama said were, indeed witty, poignant and - darn it - downright brilliant.

Thank you.

my pleasure. you clearly needed the help.

Fantine · Oct 3, 2008

MachZer0 said:
So based on that, it's your positiopn that her church believes that Joe Six Pack should not be represented in government business? Interesting interpretation

Her religion condemns the use of alcohol, and so for her to refer to herself as a Joe Six Pack sort of gal, sitting around with a few beers watching the football game, tells me that the evangelical Christianity she wears like a badge of honor to attract that constituency is not so firmly planted in her psyche as she claims it is.

She wants to attract the beer drinkers.

She wants to attract the temperance leaguers.

Oh, good heavens! Could it be?

Could she be committing the cardinal sin she keeps accusing Barak Obama of doing--saying ONE thing to another audience--"This bud's for you!" and another thing to another--"Alcohol is a tool of Satan!"

MachZer0 · Oct 3, 2008

Fantine said:
Her religion condemns the use of alcohol, and so for her to refer to herself as a Joe Six Pack sort of gal, sitting around with a few beers watching the football game, tells me that the evangelical Christianity she wears like a badge of honor to attract that constituency is not so firmly planted in her psyche as she claims it is.

She wants to attract the beer drinkers.

She wants to attract the temperance leaguers.

Oh, good heavens! Could it be?

Could she be committing the cardinal sin she keeps accusing Barak Obama of doing--saying ONE thing to another audience--"This bud's for you!" and another thing to another--"Alcohol is a tool of Satan!"

Of course, that completely ignores the definition of Joe Six Pack which I clearly provided. As I said, the contempt here for Plain only demonstrates that her grasp of vocabulary transcends that of many of our left leaning friends.

mont974x4 · Oct 3, 2008

I don't mind being referred to as Joe 6 Pack.

heck, even Obama made me appreciate being a bitter average white man clinging to my guns and God. LOL

mont974x4 · Oct 3, 2008

Fantine said:
Her religion condemns the use of alcohol, and so for her to refer to herself as a Joe Six Pack sort of gal, sitting around with a few beers watching the football game, tells me that the evangelical Christianity she wears like a badge of honor to attract that constituency is not so firmly planted in her psyche as she claims it is.

She wants to attract the beer drinkers.

She wants to attract the temperance leaguers.

Oh, good heavens! Could it be?

Could she be committing the cardinal sin she keeps accusing Barak Obama of doing--saying ONE thing to another audience--"This bud's for you!" and another thing to another--"Alcohol is a tool of Satan!"

Do you have proof that her denomination condemns the use of alcohol? Her religion, Christianity, certainly does not.

Which of course, is besides the point. She simply connects with mainstream average Americans in a way that neither of the men on the Dem ticket can.

Fantine · Oct 3, 2008

MachZer0 said:
Of course, that completely ignores the definition of Joe Six Pack which I clearly provided. As I said, the contempt here for Plain only demonstrates that her grasp of vocabulary transcends that of many of our left leaning friends.

So interesting, MachZero. Just like your "heroine," Governor Palin, you deal in partial truths. Here's your WHOLE definition:

Main Entry: Joe SixPack Function:noun Etymology:from the stereotype of a six-pack of beer as a workingman's drinkDate:1975 : an ordinary man ; specifically : a blue-collar worker

The only way your heroine cares about these people are as part of the "lost" who need "salvation."

MachZer0 · Oct 3, 2008

Fantine said:
So interesting, MachZero. Just like your "heroine," Governor Palin, you deal in partial truths. Here's your WHOLE definition:

The only way your heroine cares about these people are as part of the "lost" who need "salvation."

The etymology of the phrase is not the definition, it's the history. the definition is as I posted it, once again showing that Palin has a better grasp on vocabulary than many of our left leaning friends

Straydog4293 · Oct 3, 2008

Matthew_18:14 said:
You may believe what you want to believe, but I would submit that a leader doesn't have to know everything to be a good leader. A leader needs to know how to ask questions and who those questions should be directed too. Wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know, not from the belief that you know everything (this isn't directed at Obama). So if, like you say, ambition is overtaking ability, then yes, she wouldn't make a good president, but if she can lead and knows how to ask the right questions, then she would make a fine president.

Obama is as much out of step with world leaders as she is. He hasn't been in the game long enough to know the intricasies of foreign affairs. Biden has also stumbled a few times when it comes to the knowledge of foreign affairs and I wouldn't doubt that McCain has done the same. Truth be told, a leader must know what information he/she needs and who to get it from. Then they need to know what to do with that information. I honestly don't think that either of the candidates is a good choice, but I'll end up voting for one of them.

WOW! most sensible post in this thread so far.

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