Joe Six-Pack American?

[ParsonJefferson]

No, the question is not about an experienced person, it's about a person that is good at what they do. A good doctor is a good doctor. Palin went to six colleges in six years. Obama graduated from Columbia (a great school I might add) and Harvard Law, he was editor of the Harvard Law Review, he is not average.

George W Bush graduated from both Yale and Harvard.

That makes him pretty brilliant, right?

 

[variant]

We currently have elites in both the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.
Washington is a train wreck. Putting a common person in there can't make it any worse.

I would say that our House Senate and Presidency has suffered more from average thinkers in recent times than it ever has in its history.

What we have now are people who are better at appealing to a larger audience in their sound bite speeches. A government by focus groups, polls, and think tank derived catch phrases.

The problem is that you don't have to be all that bright to back whatever the party wants and sell out to various special interests and partisan ideologies.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

It's not necessarily a bad thing to have a person or persons in the government who own small businesses in the economy, and thus have a stake in the regulation and taxes that spew forth from Washington.

 

[Baggins]

George W Bush graduated from both Yale and Harvard.

That makes him pretty brilliant, right?

Not if he's a legacy student surely? He got in because his father was bright enough to go there. Obama got in because he was bright enough to go there.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Not if he's a legacy student surely? He got in because his father was bright enough to go there. Obama got in because he was bright enough to go there.

Obama transferred into the IVY league from Occidental. He then went to Harvard..Obama's father also went to Harvard.

 

[chaim]

This would be further evidence that Obama made it through the top schools in the country on his own merits. To transfer mid degree to Columbia, one would have to show excellent academic performance at Occidental. Also to claim that his entry into Harvard was through legacy would be absurd seeing he graduated with the highest honors attainable.

I would say that Bush is above average, however he is certainly not brilliant. He graduated from Yale without receiving a single A, with a middling grade point average. He was rejected from law school with far less prestige than Harvard, but somehow managed to get into the Harvard MBA program even with his poor record from Yale. I think the same can be said of Mccain and Biden, above average bot not exactly intellectually brilliant. Palin on the other hand, would be just about average.

Obama transferred into the IVY league from Occidental. He then went to Harvard..Obama's father also went to Harvard.

 

[Matthew_18:14]

are you people serious?
you want your neighbor to be v.p.? your grocer? your electrician? your frat buddy? whoops, that last one was a bad example.

You don't honestly mean what you just responded with. Am I to assume that every grocier, electrician, and frat buddy is not capable of anything beyond what they are doing. A lot of individuals choose those jobs because they like to do them, or don't want to go into another profession. My father-in-law, who happens to vote Democrat, is one of those individuals. He is intelligent, but he worked in a warehouse most of his life. Does this mean he isn't fit to be in a political office. I don't think so. I sometimes think it would be nice to have someone who understands the common man and not someone who only knows the common man from the outside looking in. Most of the candidates that we have the opportunity to vote for are the latter.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

You don't honestly mean what you just responded with. Am I to assume that every grocier, electrician, and frat buddy is not capable of anything beyond what they are doing. A lot of individuals choose those jobs because they like to do them, or don't want to go into another profession. My father-in-law, who happens to vote Democrat, is one of those individuals. He is intelligent, but he worked in a warehouse most of his life. Does this mean he isn't fit to be in a political office. I don't think so. I sometimes think it would be nice to have someone who understands the common man and not someone who only knows the common man from the outside looking in. Most of the candidates that we have the opportunity to vote for are the latter.

I wish we could get more blue collar folks like that into the legislature because when they get out, they have to live with the things they did.

Maybe we should make having a law degree an automatic disqualification for elected legislative public office?

 

[Matthew_18:14]

I wish we could get more blue collar folks like that into the legislature because when they get out, they have to live with the things they did.

Maybe we should make having a law degree an automatic disqualification for elected legislative public office?

I wonder if that would work, but just looking at what they get paid tells you immediately that they have no clue what average joe six pack is going through.

Senator Pay: (From Wikipedia article)
The annual salary of each senator, as of 2008, is $169,300;[7] the President pro tempore and party leaders receive $188,100.[8] By law, the starting amount of a senator's retirement annuity may not exceed 80% of his or her final salary. In 2006, the average annual pension for retired senators and representatives under CSRS was $60,972, while those who retired under FERS, or in combination with CSRS, was $35,952.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate#Salary_and_benefits

Representative Salary: (From Wikipedia article)
As of January 1, 2008, the annual salary of each Representative is $169,300.[4] The Speaker of the House and the Majority and Minority Leaders earn more. The Speaker earned $212,100 during the 109th Congress (January 4, 2005-January 3, 2007) while the party leaders earned $183,500 (the same as Senate leaders). A cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) increase takes effect annually unless Congress votes to not accept it. Congress sets members' salaries; however, the Twenty-seventh Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits a change in wages from taking effect during the same Congress in which it was enacted. Representatives are eligible for lifetime benefits after serving for five years, including a pension, health benefits, and social security benefits.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives#Salaries

US President: (Wikipedia article)
Traditionally, the president is the highest-paid public employee. President Bush currently earns $400,000 per year, along with a $50,000 expense account, a $100,000 nontaxable travel account, and $19,000 for entertainment.[2] The president's salary and total expense account serve as an unofficial cap for all other federal officials' salaries, such as that of the Chief Justice. The most recent raise in salary was approved by Congress and President Bill Clinton in 1999 and came into force in 2001; prior to the change, the president earned $200,000, plus expense accounts. This was needed because other officials who received annual cost-of-living increases had salaries approaching that of the president, and in order to raise their salaries further, his needed to be raised as well. Monetary compensation for the president is minuscule in comparison to the CEOs of most Fortune 500 companies and comparable to that of certain kinds of professionals, such as attorneys and physicians in some parts of the United States.[citation needed] Overall the vast majority of U.S. presidents have been very affluent upon entering office and thus have not been dependent on the salary.
Prior to passage by Congress of the Former Presidents Act (FPA) in 1958, retired presidents did not receive a pension. All living presidents in 1959 began to receive a pension of $25,000 per year, an office, and a staff. The pension has increased numerous times with Congressional approval. Retired presidents now receive a pension based on the salary of the current administration's cabinet secretaries (Executive Level I), which is $191,300 as of 2008.[17] Some former presidents have also collected congressional pensions.[18] The FPA, as amended, also provides former presidents with travel funds and mailing privileges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Salary

Not bad gigs if you can get into any one of them. Plus there are plenty of other perks that go along with the jobs. I wonder if any of the current, or past elected officials have donated most of their salary, so that they could live like their average constituent? Just a thought.

 

[mont974x4]

I'd rather have an average Joe than the typical Washington elitist (from either party) that has forgotten what it's like to even pump your own gas.

 

[Sojourner1]

No, the question is not about an experienced person, it's about a person that is good at what they do. A good doctor is a good doctor. Palin went to six colleges in six years. Obama graduated from Columbia (a great school I might add) and Harvard Law, he was editor of the Harvard Law Review, he is not average.

Not sure why people get upset when Obama is referred to as being elitist. It would appear that now this is a good thing after reading the OP. The OP seems to be saying that having the experience and ability to relate to the average American on their level is a bad thing. The President should be above everyone else, in a different league so to speak. So it would be a good thing for Obama to be classified as an elitist wouldn't it?

 

[chaim]

The reason that people get upset is that the term 'elitist' has been redefined (educated = elitists) and hijacked by the right to be portrayed as a bad thing. I would like an 'elitist' 'liberal' president (that is two bad words in one sentence).

Not sure why people get upset when Obama is referred to as being elitist. It would appear that now this is a good thing after reading the OP. The OP seems to be saying that having the experience and ability to relate to the average American on their level is a bad thing. The President should be above everyone else, in a different league so to speak. So it would be a good thing for Obama to be classified as an elitist wouldn't it?

 

[reverend B]

My neighbor Cal? Yep, he'd be a good one.
I don't have a grocer. I think that's something from the past.
My electrician C.B.? Nope, he's got a blood disorder and is probably going to die soon.
My frat buddy? Didn't have any.


And are you just jealous that GWB graduated from both Yale and Harvard and you didn't? Sour grapes. Sour grapes.

absolutely. i dropped out of harvard before graduating. it was a terrible mistake. there and phillips exeter academy. i knew many of these silly people in the school due to nepotism. you're right. sour grapes. i didn't have the coin to purchase my own degree.

 

[reverend B]

I wish we could get more blue collar folks like that into the legislature because when they get out, they have to live with the things they did.

Maybe we should make having a law degree an automatic disqualification for elected legislative public office?

good plan, let's have people making law that don't know anything about it.

harriet myers, anyone?

 

[Matthew_18:14]

The reason that people get upset is that the term 'elitist' has been redefined (educated = elitists) and hijacked by the right to be portrayed as a bad thing. I would like an 'elitist' 'liberal' president (that is two bad words in one sentence).

The word 'elitist' doesn't conjure up images of educated people for me. I see plenty of educated people and most of them I don't consider elitist. What I do get from the word 'elitist' is someone who is a snob, feels that they are greater than everyone else, feels like they know more than everyone else, or any combination thereof. Sometimes you get the feeling someone is an elitist just by watching them (this may be wrong, but we do it everyday), reading something that they have written, or listening to them speak. When we make these assumptions about people we may be wrong, but it doesn't stop us from doing so.

I realize that the Republicans have used this angle quite a lot in their campaign, but it certainly doesn't help when the Democratic candidate gives them the ammo.

 

[mont974x4]

The founding principle was that people would be in charge...not the elite.

Claiming that elite = educated is delusional. There are plenty of qualified, down to earth, well learned man and women around. And there are plent of absolutely ignorant elite people.

 

[chaim]

So assuming you believe that Obama is an 'elitist' (as most republicans seem to think he is), what makes him an elitist?

The founding principle was that people would be in charge...not the elite.

Claiming that elite = educated is delusional. There are plenty of qualified, down to earth, well learned man and women around. And there are plent of absolutely ignorant elite people.

 

[reverend B]

You don't honestly mean what you just responded with. Am I to assume that every grocier, electrician, and frat buddy is not capable of anything beyond what they are doing. A lot of individuals choose those jobs because they like to do them, or don't want to go into another profession. My father-in-law, who happens to vote Democrat, is one of those individuals. He is intelligent, but he worked in a warehouse most of his life. Does this mean he isn't fit to be in a political office. I don't think so. I sometimes think it would be nice to have someone who understands the common man and not someone who only knows the common man from the outside looking in. Most of the candidates that we have the opportunity to vote for are the latter.

what i don't want is a person who's ambition overreaches their curiosity. palin has proved herself to be average joe six pack in her exposure to world events, our own judicial history, international affairs, current national political events, and so on. like w, she is not in the least bit curious about our world, just her own and her influence on it. w at least had the good taste to admit he doesn't read and isn't interested. palin pretended she did, but doesn't have enough exposure to what adults peruse that wish to remain informed to be able to name a single source. the term "joe six pack" isn't describing the aberration you say your father-in-law is, but the everyman, the regular johnny lunch bucket. is it true that a few folks out there remain powerfully engaged in the political and legislative fray while working blue collar type jobs? of course. is it the norm? of course not. does the monicker "joe six pack" ellicit the image of this blue collar elite you describe? seriously. does it?
your argument doesn't address what palin is suggesting, and if she is representative of the type of person she thinks should hold high public office, i submit her inability to converse on a very basic political level as evidence that she is badly mistaken. this is ambition overtaking ability.

 

[Allahuakbar]

The founding principle was that people would be in charge...not the elite.

Could you detail some interesting facts about the Founding Fathers? I read the David McCullough biography of John Adams and was surprised and pleased to learn that one of his favorite childhood books was one of the works of Cicero, in Latin.

The Founding Fathers did not want the propertyless to vote. How does this support your conclusion above?

Claiming that elite = educated is delusional. There are plenty of qualified, down to earth, well learned man and women around. And there are plent of absolutely ignorant elite people.

Could you give some examples?

 

[reverend B]

The founding principle was that people would be in charge...not the elite.

Claiming that elite = educated is delusional. There are plenty of qualified, down to earth, well learned man and women around. And there are plent of absolutely ignorant elite people.

this was nearly not the case. hamilton argued vehemently that only the elite should be able to vote, for they were the only ones able to understand what was at stake and they would be most affected by legislation. this was a lengthy debate that hamilton ultimately lost, but not without a fight.

remember, the founding fathers were some of the very richest and most "elite" people in the country, and they drafted a document that protected their own interests, most notably land ownership.