JILLIONS of Creation proof!

[peschitta_enthusiast]

Or do you think the mutations were planned?

 

[notto]

Or do you think the mutations were planned?

Mutations are random.
Selection is not random or accidental.

Therefore, evolution is not random or accidental.

 

[Jet Black]

"hey, did you forget about natural selection or something?"

Are you for real? The whole theory of evolution revolves around accidental mutations.

yes I am for real. evolution revolves around natural selection too. and natural selection ain't random duder. It doesn'T matter how the variation is generated. look at it this way, if we start off with a number say 100, and with a random number generator we generate a bunch of new numbers similar but not identical to that one. now cut off the smallest number, and average what remains. continue doing this and you will see the average go up. is this accidental?

 

[peschitta_enthusiast]

Evolution revolves around the random mutations, that supposedly are beneficial. That is very accidental. Natural selection is a different thing. When environmental factors etc come into play that is not fully accidental. But the very start of the theory is beneficial mutations, which are accidental.

 

[Jet Black]

Evolution revolves around the random mutations, that supposedly are beneficial. That is very accidental. Natural selection is a different thing. When environmental factors etc come into play that is not fully accidental. But the very start of the theory is beneficial mutations, which are accidental.

no no, the start of the theory is variation in the population natural selection acts on that and natural selection eliminates any randomness generated in the mutations. you have to look at the whole theory, not just cherry pick the bits you want. So now you have admitted that selection is not random you also just admitted that evolution isn't either. QED.

 

[lucaspa]

Explain to me why if tolemerase is an absoulte REQUIREMENT for proper DNA usage, how we got my without it, or with forms that didn't work yet? And that is just ONE enzyme of THOUSANDS that are vital

Telomerase is not a requirement for proper DNA usage. Someone told you a fib. It's that simple. Most of your cells do not have telomerase. They function just fine. Bacteria don't have telomerase to my knowledge.

What telomerase does is add to the telomeres, which in turn decide how long a mammalian cell can divide before it senesces and dies. But mammalian cells do senesce and die. The number of divisions at which this happens is called Hayflick's number and is different for each mammalian species. For humans Hayflick's number is about 50 cell divisions.

When telomerase is activated, the cell can undergo an infinite number of cell divisions. Telomerase is active in stem cells and cancer cells. In fact, turning on telomerase in non-stem cells may be one of the major biochemical causes of cancer.

Now, if you thermally heat amino acids they will form proteins. Add water and the proteins will form cells that are alive. The chemical process of linking the amino acids together into proteins will produce the vital enzymes for life.

 

[lucaspa]

Evolution revolves around the random mutations, that supposedly are beneficial. That is very accidental. Natural selection is a different thing. When environmental factors etc come into play that is not fully accidental. But the very start of the theory is beneficial mutations, which are accidental.

What you are describing is natural selection, not evolution. Evolution is "descent with modification". The modification could be acquired characteristics or some other mechanism. It's just that experiments have shown that the modification is due to natural selection.

However, natural selection depends on variations between individuals in a population. That could be due to mutations or to combinations of alleles (forms of genes) made by sexual recombination.

Now, mutations are not "accidental". There are causes. What we have found is that mutations are RANDOM with respect to the needs of the individual or the population. IOW, in a population growing colder, just as many deer with shorter fur will be born as ones with longer fur. However, as you have noted, selection will pick the longer furred individuals because they will do better in the colder climate than the shorter furred ones.

 

[lucaspa]

Or do you think the mutations were planned?

It's possible. That is one position of the belief that is theistic evolution. After all, how hard is it for God to direct a cosmic ray to a particular point in the genome of a sperm or egg and cause a particular mutation?

Now, science can't tell you that this happens. Science can't tell you it doesn't happen. That's why the theistic part of theistic evolution is a belief.

 

[ObbiQuiet]

*slaps his knee*

 

[lucaspa]

The telomerase example is one of many. You know how chaotic a single AA change can be.

Actually, amino acid chains are not chaotic. Thermal proteins are highly organized. This is because of the side chains of amino acids and how they interact with water. Most side chains are water-hating (hydrophobic), some are water-loving (hydrophilic) but not charged, and about 6 amino acids are water-loving and charged. Fox and colleagues did an experiment where they made 3 amino acid proteins from 3 different amino acids: glutamic acid (charged and water-loving), serine (non-charged and water loving), and leucine (water-hating). Now, there are 27 possible combinations of those 3 amino acids. But they found that only six were actually made.

It would take an unbelievable amount of changes for one to be "non-harmful", let alone beneficial.

There are many studies showing that changing one amino acid changes a protein to something more beneficial.

For instance, N.H. Komiyama et al. Nature, 373, 244(1995) points out that just a change of *12* amino acids in human hemoglobin would give it the properties of crocodile hemoglobin, and allow humans to stay under water for prolonged periods. That's 12 amino acids out of hundreds.

Also, consider the differences in cytochrome c among species. This is a critical protein; it transfers electrons to oxygen and is the final step in energy production in the cell. Yet nearly every species has a different amino acid sequence to its cytochrome c. Not only do all of them work, they all work equally well! http://members.aol.com/SHinrichs9/descent/denton.jpg

Someone has been feeding you a lot of misinformation. It appears to be the site you quoted in the OP. Shame on them.

 

[Susan Sto Helit]

While there is no proof of that timespan, even that is quite short, considering the many extremely improbable steps.

Fossil microbial cells aged 3.5 billion years have been discovered in rocks from Western Australia. Given the difficulties inherent to the fossilisation period, a 3.5 billion years estimate for life on Earth is actually somewhat conservative.

Given that timespan, there have been billions of generations from the beginning of life to our present day, and therefore plenty of time for mutations to occur and for selective pressures to act upon them.

I am not quite sure what you mean by "improbable steps". The probability of an event that has already occurred is 1.

-----SSH

 

[JohnR7]

JILLIONS

What is a larger amount: Jillions or Oodles of Googols?

 

[Jet Black]

What is a larger amount: Jillions or Oodles of Googols?

Googols, however Graham's Number is bigger. it's so big in fact that you need a special notation to describe quite how big it is.

 

[P4g4nite]

You KNOW your anti-evolution argument is bad when JohnR7 wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole.
In fact, he mocks. Kudos to you john : D

 

[warispeace]

The acceptance of evolution is proportional to the degradation of society. No creation, no God, no accountability for our actions. This is the reason why this most unscientific of unscientific theories is so accepted by a supposedly logical world.

How about accountability for posting a link full of lies? Or doesn't this rule apply to Christians, too?

 

[Arikay]

Yep, evolution sure does make you disbelieve in god
*Looks at the christian evolutionists that are posting*


Out of curiousity Peschitta,
Do you think its christ like for the site to misrepresent itself in its domain name?
Do you think its christ like for the site to support arguments that are known to be so false other creationist groups have posted refutations for them (such as moon dust)?

 

[pureone]

I don't know, Tm convinced- That creationists cannot Win and lie at any chance they get!

 

[Nathan Poe]

How about accountability for posting a link full of lies? Or doesn't this rule apply to Christians, too?

"JILLIONS of Creation Proof!"

It was bad enough when Creationists were making up their own facts. NOW they're making up their own numbers!

Where does it end?

 

[Paul-martin]

Well it don’t give the big picture, and well I don’t believe earth was created on 6 day’s, also about the evolution you must remember, that it is an theory which haven’t been proved, there is too many question marks…… The atmosphere we would need to for the building peaces (aminoacid), of life to be created have never existed on earth…. And so on…..

 

[Justin Horne]

"How many creationists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
It can't be done, electricity is just a theory."


No insult meant, i'm just pointing out that massive amounts of everyday science is considered a theory...