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Jews going to heaven?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by solo66 man, Feb 18, 2002.

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  1. Alida

    Alida New Member

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    It's very simple: There is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. Anyone who rejects Christ is not going to the Father. Very plain and simple. This includes the Jews. If a Jew rejects Christ....bingo! That's it! Same rules for everyone on the face of the earth. We'r not living in Old Testament Times anymore.
     
  2. Chili

    Chili Member

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    But Alida, we're not playing bingo here and you cannot consciously accept or reject Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and it does not matter here if you are Jew or Catholic or protestant because if it did matter this rule could not apply to everyone on the face of the earth!

    It is true that salvation is the same for everyone on the face of the earth because it is archetypal to mankind and it is because of this that religion will become the last hindrance to overcome. Having said this I must add that religion is, or can be,  the right vehicle to prepare humans for this event. 

    The problem we will encounter is that heaven is religion specific which now means that heaven is not for everyone on the face of this earth but for Christians only.

     
     
  3. Alida

    Alida New Member

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    God says in order to go to Heaven, you must be born again.

    In John 3:7, Jesus said to Nicodemus, "Ye must be born again."

    To be born again means to have new life, to be saved. Saved from your sins, the very sins, if unforgiven, will condemn you before a Holy and Just God, Who will judge the living and the dead. Even being a church member, a religious person, or baptized does not make one born again.

    How are you saved or born again?

    First, you must realize you are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

    "For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Death not only means the end of this earthly life but this includes eternal separation from God, to spend eternity in a fiery Hell.

    The Bible says, "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

    But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

    "...God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

    God has said in His Holy Word, the Bible, that my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus and He bled and died in our place. He took our sins upon Himself at the Cross and became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie.

    "God...commandeth all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, turn from our sinful ways and accept what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

    In Acts 16:30-31, a Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: "...'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved... .' "

    Believe that Jesus is the one who bore your sin, shed His blood and died in your place, was buried, arose from the grave. Did you know according to the Bible, Jesus was seen by over 500 people after He arose and before He ascended into Heaven? Jesus’ sacrifice for you is a free gift. Will you accept it and be saved?

    Be saved today and truly know that Heaven is yours!

    "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name" (John 1:12).

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

    That whosoever in the verse above includes you.

    Have your sins separated you from God and eternal life in Heaven?

    In Luke 18:13, the sinner prayed: "God be merciful to me a sinner." You can pray and ask God to save you. You can be born again. Just pray: "Oh God, I know I am a sinner. I believe Jesus paid the debt I could not pay and was my substitute when He died on the Cross. I now receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Thank you, Lord, for saving me! Amen."

    If you prayed for Jesus to save you and believe in your heart that Jesus saved you, then you are saved!

    If you did not pray to receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, remember your soul is worth more that all that is in the world.

    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36).
     
  4. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
     
     
  5. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
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    Messianic
    Hai Chili,

    Maybe www.faq-online.nl is something for you, ´cause there are a lot of articles which contains interpretation of the relation between Yeshua and the Jews, Yeshua and the Christians and the Jews and the Christians. Ofcourse it is written in the Dutch language.

    The source of my determination is Yeshua. But I want to thank you for your friendly reply :pink:

    Baruch Yeshua HaAdon, He´ll bless you because of your view!

    Noa
     
  6. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
    What bingo??? :mad: Do you think it is a game or something? Do you love Yeshua? Yes? Well you´ll PRAY for the Jews also and your heart will hope they will make it (surprise... they will!!), because bécause of the Jews you know Yeshua by now!

    Alida, I guess you do not know the prophecy´s, otherwise, you would a: chose another words for this matter and b: you would KNOW all Israeli´s WILL accept Yeshua (Zarchary and Rom.9-11). ´

    Noa.

     
     
  7. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
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    Messianic
    Are you sure of this? Who taught you this way of thinking? Is there really an old testament and a new testament? What about the book of Daniel, or Ezekiel? Have all these things come to pass already? How about the Passover? Did G-d do away with that or something?

     

    It is all the Word of G-d plain and simple as you like to put it. Only problem is, its just not that simple.

     

    Patrick
     
  8. Chili

    Chili Member

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    Hello alida, (nice name BTW and please know that my soul is not for sale).

    Hmmmm, you surprised me and I would have never believed that a level headed Dutch girl (?) would write something like that.  

    Indeed, you must be born again and have received new life. Christ must be reborn in you and after this "the old" must die while "the new" comes fully to life in Christ. 

    I disagree that you must realize that you are a sinner because you must come as you are. That is, believe and repent instead of repent and believe.

    Jesus was a Jew and I am a Catholic and just as Jesus died for the sins of his world so must I die to the sins of my world. That is why he told me to pick up my cross and follow him. I mean, Jews are great but so are Catholics.

    You are mistaken in that Christ died because it was Jesus who died and he died for the liberation of Christ. If you read the gospels they will tell you that Bar-abbas was set free because there was nothing wrong with "Jesus the man" while "Jesus the Jew" was convicted by Jewish law and tradition.

    "God cannot lie" but you must not forget that the NT was written by the Catholics for the soon to be Catholics.

    Once again, I am surprised and did not know that the "saved sinner" complex is promoted in Holland with such precision.

    I think you need a :priest: :p
     
  9. Alida

    Alida New Member

    68
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    I can be wrong, but it's my opinion that we are all sinners saved by grace.

    The New Testament was written for all Christians, that includes the "20000" (= smile!) protestant denominations.






    No this is not a game. I used "bingo" as figure of speach. Don't worry.

    I know some Jewish people, who passed on and did not accept Christ as their personal saviour. 
     
  10. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
    Hitler killed a lot of Jews who did not accept Yeshua! And you do not know, SURPISE, if they are in heaven or not. Do you believe they went to hell when they sang the Sh´ma Israël when they were put in de gaschambers? Think twice!

    The NT is not written for the christians... Read Jeremia 31! First the Jew... then the Greek... I´m sorry!

    Think about it and please use your word carefully. Because I won´t take such words as ´bingo´!!! When you post, please let the Roeach be your Guide!

    Noa.
     
  11. Chili

    Chili Member

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    No, you are correct, but we Catholics have this eclectic interpetation wherein the saved are set free from the law and therefore also from the bondage  to slavery and sin. They get that from Gal. 5:1-4 wherein it may be read that it was for liberty that Christ freed us and that it is not a good idea to take upon us the yoke of slavery a second time. It goes on to say that those who again seek their justification in the law have been severed from Christ and fallen from Gods favor.

    This is actually repeated several times to remind us that the law is for the conviction of sin and if indeed we are free in Christ we will be circumsized by his Immanent Will and have no need for the antiquated letter of the law. Hence he/she who is in Christ cannot sin (1Jn.3:9).

    I would encourage you to claim this as yours and I am sure that if you keep your eyes on Christ you will be able to walk on the Celestial sea and so into the promised land. "Be not afraid" is our message here.

    Yes, I was surprised by your post because I have never seen that put in such a refined way by a fellow country girl (but then, I am quite naive in this and actually resent the message of salvation). 

    I know, the NT was written for all believers with the hope that they would become Christians in the manner of Jesus of Nazareth and not just be a stretch of their own imagination. 

     Alida is a special name for me because my sisters name is Alida Margareta Maria. I live in Canada now and the name is not known here.

     
     
  12. Alida

    Alida New Member

    68
    +0
    I'm going by NT scripture, there's only one way to the Father and that's through Jesus Christ. Anyone rejecting Christ will not go to the Father. I don't know where the Jews from the concentration camps went to. God knows. Some could have been saved , others not, God knows.

    Huh?????
    The NT is full of instructions for the Body of Christ.


    Ooopsh, this might open up the can of worms about the "once saved-always saved" issue. Boy, that could become an exciting discussion.

    Right on! (....but that's not what Noa thinks)
     
  13. Chili

    Chili Member

    163
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    Well Jews are believers and so are Greeks and so are all those who are called to be Jew by adoption of the OT. Many of these soon became known as Catholics. 

     Online at 5.45 AM?
     
  14. Alida

    Alida New Member

    68
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    They were not Christians yet? What about the New Testament Church? Did you read Acts? May I ask you which kind of church you go to? I like to know where this kind of teaching is coming from.
     
  15. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
    Alida,


    • First: Did you pick up your Bible and read the verses I gave you or didn´t you??? I do not think so, otherwise you´ll ask the Lord and then you KNEW what it happened in WOII. Do you care anyway??? Did you PRAY for Jews like G´d told US (also YOU) to do? :mad: Hmmmzzz... I wonder...
    • Second: The B´rit Chadasha (NT) is written BY Jews (exept Luke). I do NOT mean is it not written for YOU or me.
    • Third: Yeshua (Jesus Christ---> I translated for you) came for the Jews first. Read your Bible, I guess we have the same one. Paul forsaw people like you and told them right in the face what the facts are! I will put it on this forum so you HAVE to read it and think about it: 
      19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in."
      20  Thou sayest well! Because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear;
      21  for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee.
      22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness. Otherwise, thou also shalt be cut off.
      23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
      24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
      25  For I, brethren, would not have you be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits: that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
      26  And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written: "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
      27  For this is My covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins."

      Rom. 11:19-27 
      Think about it... it is the Word of G´d.
    • Fourth: some people who did not lifed with Yeshua can be saved.
      [12 For as many as have sinned apart from the law shall also perish apart from the law, and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.
      13  (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
      14  For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, they, not having the law, are a law unto themselves,
      15  which shows the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts meanwhile either accusing or excusing one another.)
      16  Thus will it be on the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel.

      Romans 2:12-16
      *The Jews will be justied by the law (613 mitwot/rules of de Tenach/ OT), until the fullness of the Gentiles are in. Then they will be saved because of Yeshua.
      *The Gentiles who know Yeshua will not be justified BECAUSE of Yeshua.
      *The Gentiles who do not know Yeshua will be a law unto themselves and guess what is the resolve? Read the Rvelation of John.
    • Fifth: Maybe is will be nice if you will study the Bible instead of reading.  :sick:
    Precisely! RIGHT ON! And do not forget the OT!

    Noa



     
     
  16. Alida

    Alida New Member

    68
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    Can I ask you (again) which denomination or church you are connected with, as I like to know where you receive bible teaching?

    P.S. Why the angry smilies?
     
  17. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
    Read your Personal Message (PM) I wrote 2 u.

    My Teacher is the Roeach HaKodesh. Do not look up at people, look up at Hìm! So is it not important which demoniation of curch I´m connected... What I wrote is the truth.

    Noa.
     
  18. Chili

    Chili Member

    163
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    I am actually a Catholic and many would call me a heretic. It is less important where I go to Church because Christians in the manner of Jesus of Nazareth leave their church and follow the "son of man [who] has no place to lie his/her head."

    This really is about the definition of a Christian and I probably should have left it alone. To be called Christian we cannot be Catholic, Jew or protestant because just a Jesus left Judiasm to find his own destiny so must we leave our church and find our own destiny. The aim here is faith seeking understanding.

    Sorry if I am obnoxious and will leave this alone if you don't respond.
      

     
     
  19. Noa

    Noa Member

    93
    +1
    Messianic
    AMEN!!!

    Baruch Yeshua HaAdon,

    Noa
     
  20. Alida

    Alida New Member

    68
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    Chili, my question was for Noa. Sorry if you thought that I was replying to your post.
     
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