Jesus Told Many They Would Live to See His Coming.

[JIMINZ]

abomination of desolation

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I just wrote these to another person. It sounds a litle snarky I know. I am way to tired to be here doing this. Just copying and pasting them then here for you to think on.

1. Funny I don't remember anyone seeing Jesus riding a cloud into Egypt either when he used the same exact language to prophesy what Nebuchadnezzar will do to Egypt.
2. Isaiah 19:1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. 2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
   
   Or I don't recall any melting of the elements in fire like Peter says or the Lord being visible when " he" destroyed northern Israel. No actually Assyria did it.
   Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. 5 For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem? 6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof. 7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot. 8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls. 9 For her wound is incurable; for it is come to Judah; he is come to the gate of my people, even to Jerusalem. AKJV
   Nor do I reacall anything about the stars of heaven falling from the skys and the heavens being rolled up like a scroll, or a visible sword coming down from heaven when Isaiah prophesied against Edom and what Nebuchadnezzar would do to them. Nope Nebuchanezzer did it all.
   Isaiah 34:1 Come near, you nations, to hear; and listen, you people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the LORD is on all nations, and his fury on all their armies: he has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down on Idumea, and on the people of my curse, to judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. 8 For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. 9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. AKJV
   Same thing with Ezekiel's prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon conquering Egypt.
   Ezekiel 32:1 And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him, You are like a young lion of the nations, and you are as a whale in the seas: and you came forth with your rivers, and troubled the waters with your feet, and fouled their rivers. 3 Thus said the Lord GOD; I will therefore spread out my net over you with a company of many people; and they shall bring you up in my net. 4 Then will I leave you on the land, I will cast you forth on the open field, and will cause all the fowls of the heaven to remain on you, and I will fill the beasts of the whole earth with you. 5 And I will lay your flesh on the mountains, and fill the valleys with your height. 6 I will also water with your blood the land wherein you swim, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of you. 7 And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set darkness on your land, said the Lord GOD. 9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries which you have not known. 10 Yes, I will make many people amazed at you, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for you, when I shall brandish my sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of your fall. 11 For thus said the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come on you. 12 By the swords of the mighty will I cause your multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed. 13 I will destroy also all the beasts thereof from beside the great waters; neither shall the foot of man trouble them any more, nor the hoofs of beasts trouble them. 14 Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, said the Lord GOD. 15 When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell therein, then shall they know that I am the LORD. .......... 32 For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the middle of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, said the Lord GOD. AKJV
   
   How many of these prophecies do you want me to cut and paste 20? 30? What I am pointing out to you that the language used in the New Testament about the coming of the Lord to destroy Jerusalem is THE EXACT same illustrative language used in OT prophecy long fulfilled before the messiah came. Its not unique. Its the common illustrative language of Bible prophecy. Once you realize this which I hope you will some day. You'll realize the absurdity of saying Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 have not come to pass because the language about stars and clouds and Jesus being visible and blood moons and dark suns and the heavens rolling up as a scroll have never happened. Sorry I sound mean. I am tired of having to keep talking about this.
   
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I saw this before. I don't agree with your interpretation or your understanding.

"That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... And now you know what LETTETH that HE might be revealed in His time. For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only HE WHO NOW LETTETH WILL LET, UNTIL HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth. (2 Thes 2:2-3,6-7)

Who do you believe Paul is talking about when he says: "He who now letteth will let, until He is taken out of the way"?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

.
Jesus came to earth to die on the cross, (The first coming).

Jesus was Crucified and was Resurrected, at which time He said to Mary Magdalene

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Can we then assume, between the time Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene, He went to Heaven and His Father, that in the evening of the second day when He appeared to the Disciples, that was the "Second Coming" ?


John 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Do you really think that was the second coming or are you just into arguing?

If you read my message, you wouldn't think I was considering the close proximity post-resurrection appearances as first, second, third, etc comings. If you count those, there were a lot of appearances post-resurrection and we are WAY PAST the second coming; but even if you count all those, there was another promised coming.

After those appearances, the angels told the original Apostles that Jesus would return as they saw Him leave (which was rising up into the heavens) (Acts 1:10-11). So how could His post-resurrection appearances been His last coming? Never mind all the prophesies that wouldn't have been fulfilled before the short time of those many appearances was gone. Never mind Paul's rebuttal of those who claimed the "Day of the Lord" has already come (1 Thes 4, 2 Thes 2). In both letters, Paul is saying that Jesus didn't already come.

If the second coming and judgment has already happened, where is the new heaven and new earth? Is what we see all around us, good again--with no more death, suffering, tears, pain, sorrow? Is there no more night where you live, because, it certainly seems to get dark in the rest of the world?

 

[2tim_215]

Seems to be a bit of "straining at gnats" here when it comes to words. Things such as 'second coming" and "second advent" are just common terms used in Christian circles. It amazes me when so many will say things like "it's not specifically in the Bible so therefore it must not be true" God doesn't spell things out for us all the time, He expects us (as mature believers) to reason things out and He gives us His Holy Spirit to help us along the way. Sure, one can say that Jesus has "been here more than once" (in particular the pre-incarnate Christ) but when it comes to the verses which are in question, they are (if looking at in in context) referring to the Jesus who walked this earth as a man and during His 3 1/2 year ministry. In addition to what is referred to as "the second advent" or "second coming" by most Christians, it is referring to "The Great Day of the Lord" which is a future event and is much talked about in the scriptures (both Old and New Testaments). I don't see any dogma, just a search for truth. "Come let us reason together sayeth the Lord". Let's not get caught up on just "words", let us search the scriptures for truth. The words "Trinity" and "Rapture" are two words that don't exist perSe in the Bible. It's not the words themselves, but it's what they represent that matters (whether or not you agree with them).

 

[JIMINZ]

[QUOTE="Johnny4ChristJesus, post: 72175531, member: 403479"]Do you really think that was the second coming or are you just into arguing?[/QUOTE]

If you read my message, you wouldn't think I was considering the close proximity post-resurrection appearances as first, second, third, etc comings. If you count those, there were a lot of appearances post-resurrection and we are WAY PAST the second coming; but even if you count all those, there was another promised coming.

After those appearances, the angels told the original Apostles that Jesus would return as they saw Him leave (which was rising up into the heavens) (Acts 1:10-11). So how could His post-resurrection appearances been His last coming? Never mind all the prophesies that wouldn't have been fulfilled before the short time of those many appearances was gone. Never mind Paul's rebuttal of those who claimed the "Day of the Lord" has already come (1 Thes 4, 2 Thes 2). In both letters, Paul is saying that Jesus didn't already come.

If the second coming and judgment has already happened, where is the new heaven and new earth? Is what we see all around us, good again--with no more death, suffering, tears, pain, sorrow? Is there no more night where you live, because, it certainly seems to get dark in the rest of the world?[/QUOTE]
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All I did was ask a question that you felt was not appropriate, watch out things might get in a twist.

I'm only saying, things aren't as cut and dried as you and some others would like to believe.

 

[JIMINZ]

[QUOTE="Johnny4ChristJesus, post: 72175531, member: 403479"]Do you really think that was the second coming or are you just into arguing?[/QUOTE]

.
All I did was ask a question that you felt was not appropriate, watch out things might get in a twist.

I'm only saying, things aren't as cut and dried as you and some others would like to believe.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Talk about spiritualizing. Don't recall angels being mentioned in any of your 20 or 30 quotes either. What ever happened to taking things literally? Jesus said they'd see Him coming with angels. And not to be off kilter, but there is this problem you have with Old Testament vs New. In many of your examples I don't believe that Christ has come on the scene yet and this is God the Father who is declaring and passing judgement, not Jesus. And with what Jesus describes in these verses, I'm pretty sure He's the one who will be bringing the destruction along with His angels (no need to bring angels with Him if all we're talking about is destroying the Jewish temple, and I can't see God destroying His own temple). It just doesn't seem to work the way you're describing. No Jesus mentioned (He would have appeared during the destruction of the temple if you were right) and when He said "strike down this temple and I will rebuild it in 3 days", it was quite clear that He was talking about His human body which we know is "God's temple". You can't just leave spiritual out of it, because the Bible is a spiritual book although it does need to be balanced (spiritual and natural as well as literal where appropriate). I just went back and look at those examples in more depth. Do you think those are events that already took place or will take place in the future? I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. 8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set darkness on your land, said the Lord GOD.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 5
Sounds like Peter when he tells us about the world being destroyed with fervent heat. Prophecy that hasn't happened yet. Those were warnings to Nebuchannezzar and the Jews.

The reason I quoted those OT prophecies that already came to pass is to show you that the exact same illustrative language used in OT prophecies that have come to pass are the same illustrations used in NT prophecies. They illustrate something that really happened and if they did not the prophecy is false because it was addressed to Edom, Egypt N Israel etc. in reference to what Nebuchadnezzar and Assyria would do to those nations. I am trying to demonstrate that just because someone does not know what these sayings or metaphors illustrate is not sufficient grounds to claim the prophecy has not taken place. If those verses are not illustrative then none of the prophecies i listed took place when they said they would which would make it false prophecy. Same with Mathew 24, Mark13, Luke 21. Just like the context is clearly seen in the four paragraphs of prophecy I copied and pasted, those nations at that time period conquered by Assyria and Nebuchadnezzar, The context is clearly scnend in those three NT chapters as being the City and the temple they were looking with Jesus saying said it would occur in their lifetimes.

I would say even more important than that though is the fact that Jesus spoke throughout the entire prophecy those three NT chapters in the second person.

Definition of SECOND PERSON

a : a set of linguistic forms (such as verb forms, pronouns, and inflectional affixes) referring to the person or thing addressed in the utterance in which they occur
b : a linguistic form belonging to such a set
2: reference of a linguistic form to the person or thing addressed in the utterance in which it occurs
Second person definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

I am Sorry but that is not up for debate on any level and God will meet out discipline for the Christian who ignores that. The Bible follow the rules of literature. In fact the development of the English language was so heavily influenced by the Bible that we got most of our rules of literature from it.

So Just exactly the way those OT prophecies were fulfilled using the same exact illustrative language coupled with literal language used in the NT. So to was Jesus's Prophecy about the temple, the city fulfilled in the lifetimes of those whom he was speaking to. Just because you don't know what a few highly illustrative verses are referring to doesn't falsify the prophecy....which it would just like it would falsify those prophecies in the OT if they did not come to pass and Nebuchadnezzar and Assyria did not conquer those countries.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus first return> resurrection > 4 gospels
Jesus second return > second coming > 1 Thessalonians 4

 

[Ron Gurley]

Preterists fobidden...
?????

 

[JIMINZ]

Preterists fobidden...
?????

.
Go figure.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I saw this before. I don't agree with your interpretation or your understanding.

"That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... And now you know what LETTETH that HE might be revealed in His time. For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only HE WHO NOW LETTETH WILL LET, UNTIL HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth. (2 Thes 2:2-3,6-7)

Who do you believe Paul is talking about when he says: "He who now letteth will let, until He is taken out of the way"?

Christians whom the Holy Spirit is in and with being driven out of Judea. Get them out of a nation by murder or migration to escape persecution and you get the Holy Spirit out of that nation. Or get them to to forsake Christ and they forsake the Holy Spirit. Happened in Germany, look what happend to it. That particular day of the Lord had not happened yet when Paul wrote that letter. So...if that particular day of the Lord is what Paul is referring to. Then there is no disagreement with what I am saying. If however we are talking about the Left behind series. Well, I guess that would make me wrong.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Seems to be a bit of "straining at gnats" here when it comes to words. Things such as 'second coming" and "second advent" are just common terms used in Christian circles. It amazes me when so many will say things like "it's not specifically in the Bible so therefore it must not be true" God doesn't spell things out for us all the time, He expects us (as mature believers) to reason things out and He gives us His Holy Spirit to help us along the way. Sure, one can say that Jesus has "been here more than once" (in particular the pre-incarnate Christ) but when it comes to the verses which are in question, they are (if looking at in in context) referring to the Jesus who walked this earth as a man and during His 3 1/2 year ministry. In addition to what is referred to as "the second advent" or "second coming" by most Christians, it is referring to "The Great Day of the Lord" which is a future event and is much talked about in the scriptures (both Old and New Testaments). I don't see any dogma, just a search for truth. "Come let us reason together sayeth the Lord". Let's not get caught up on just "words", let us search the scriptures for truth. The words "Trinity" and "Rapture" are two words that don't exist perSe in the Bible. It's not the words themselves, but it's what they represent that matters (whether or not you agree with them).

The phrase "second coming" or "second advent" is an interpretation of Bible prophecy, it is not Bible prophecy. Yet it is being treated as Bible prophecy via consensus and group think. This is is just one of a thousand times in history where the majority opinion is totally wrong and anyone that questions it is crazy. This whole thread is a perfect example. There are a dozen records in the NT when Jesus said he would come back to judge that nation, ancient Israel in the lifetimes of those whom he was speaking to. There are dozens of other prophecies that imply or outright say just that. The context of the prophecy are the buildings and the city they are looking at. Jesus said it would all be destroyed. They asked when and what would lead up to it. He answered their questions and told them it would happen in that very generation. Then the city, the temple were completely destroyed approx 34 years later.

My question would be: In what universe can people deny that prophecy came to pass when the city and the temple were destroyed in that very generation just like Jesus said? I'll tell you. In a universe were a teaching called "The second" coming, a one time event that is to occur at the end of the world is accepted as gospel in place of the Gospel.

Was the temple and the city destroyed in that very generation? Does that mean anything to you?

 

[GUANO]

Are you aware that Jesus told many of the people he was speaking to, including he apostle John, that they would live long enough to see the coming of the Lord? Here Matthew, Mark and Luke all record the same scene when Jesus tells a group of his disciples that some of them will live long enough to see his coming.

Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 8:38 Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And he said to them, Truly I say to you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:26 For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Here Jesus tells John that he will live long enough to see his coming but tells Peter he will not.

John 21:18. (Jesus speaking to Peter) Truly, Truly, I say to you, When you were young, you dressed yourself, and walked where ever you desired: but when your old, you will stretch forth your hands, and another will dress you, and carry you where you do not want. 19. This he spoke, signifying by what death he (Peter) should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he said to him, Follow me. 20. Then Peter, turning around, seeing the disciple whom Jesus loved (John) following;...... 21. Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22. Jesus answers him, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? Follow me. 23. Then this saying abroad went out among the brothers, that this disciple (John) should not die: yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?

Then Jesus tells the High Priest and the other religious leaders of Israel that some of them would live long enough to see his coming.

Mark 14:61 ...Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62. And Jesus said, I am: and you will see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Then of course there Jesus's prophecy about the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem. It is very important to note that the only place in his whole prophecy that he used the emphasis "truly truly I say to you" to command their attention, and ours was concerning when this prophecy would come to pass.

Matthew 24:32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is close: 33. So likewise, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34. In truth I say to you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near: 29. So in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that it is close, even at the doors. 30. In truth I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke 21:29. And he spoke to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30. When they now shoot forth, you see and know of your own selves that summer is now close at hand. 31. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is close at hand. 32. In truth I say to you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

This is all in exact accordance with Daniels prophecy that when the messiah comes the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. In fact the destruction of the temple and the city was one of the major signs, like his death and resurrection that Jesus was indeed the messiah.

Daniel chapter 9 verses 25-27. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So why do so many Christians and pastors not pay any attention to all these scriptures that say when Jesus would come and instead place it in our future? I think mostly because they have no incentive to notice them. They accepted a teaching called the "second coming" as gospel long before they became familiar enough with the scripture to observe anything contrary to it. The Greek word for second doesn't even occur one time in the same sentence in the entire New Testament with the Greek word for "coming." The acceptance of these pop culture end time teachings has quite naturally caused a spiritual and intellectual laziness around the subject of the coming of the Lord. The scripture is replete with these great days of judgment where the Lord literally and physically came to earth to oversee great days of judgment or calamity. This isn't the only one the New Testament prophesied either. There are a dozen chapters of end time prophecy about the great judgments and end of the age of the four Gentile empires in the book of Revelation. Every single sentence of Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 came to pass in the first century. I had the incentive and the calling to find out just exactly how. Especially with the seemingly difficult verses.

If this stirs anyone's curiosity you can read the article here. I am currently advertising it on Facebook. You'll not find a more complete account in a more easy to read format. Otherwise argue away.
The End Of An Age

In the scriptures at hand, Christ (and Daniel) is/are talking specifically about the destruction of the temple and the desolation of Jerusalem. I don't believe this should be applied to John's visions as well.

In addition, John's writings also prove that indeed John himself did see Jesus Christ coming in the clouds of heaven... He saw and recorded it all.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Christians whom the Holy Spirit is in and with being driven out of Judea. Get them out of a nation by murder or migration to escape persecution and you get the Holy Spirit out of that nation. Or get them to to forsake Christ and they forsake the Holy Spirit. Happened in Germany, look what happend to it. That particular day of the Lord had not happened yet when Paul wrote that letter. So...if that particular day of the Lord is what Paul is referring to. Then there is no disagreement with what I am saying. If however we are talking about the Left behind series. Well, I guess that would make me wrong.

I'm not talking about the left behind series which I wouldn't watch. Why would a God who has done so many things supernaturally--including giving man the Holy Spirit by supernatural means--as recorded in Scripture, relegate Himself to humans killing humans to eliminate the Holy Spirit in an area? When Jesus said they will see Him when He comes, how is seeing the roman caesar or hitler equivalent to seeing Jesus come? Which dead or alive Christians went up to visit Him in the air at those times. I have heard stories of deaths--including all the original Apostles. I have not heard of any stories of those who were alive going up to meet Christ in the air. Jesus said it wouldn't be a secret when He came. In which of those instances, do we have people making battle with Jesus as He is coming in the clouds and Jesus slaying them?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

[QUOTE="Johnny4ChristJesus, post: 72175531, member: 403479"]Do you really think that was the second coming or are you just into arguing?

If you read my message, you wouldn't think I was considering the close proximity post-resurrection appearances as first, second, third, etc comings. If you count those, there were a lot of appearances post-resurrection and we are WAY PAST the second coming; but even if you count all those, there was another promised coming.

After those appearances, the angels told the original Apostles that Jesus would return as they saw Him leave (which was rising up into the heavens) (Acts 1:10-11). So how could His post-resurrection appearances been His last coming? Never mind all the prophesies that wouldn't have been fulfilled before the short time of those many appearances was gone. Never mind Paul's rebuttal of those who claimed the "Day of the Lord" has already come (1 Thes 4, 2 Thes 2). In both letters, Paul is saying that Jesus didn't already come.

If the second coming and judgment has already happened, where is the new heaven and new earth? Is what we see all around us, good again--with no more death, suffering, tears, pain, sorrow? Is there no more night where you live, because, it certainly seems to get dark in the rest of the world?[/QUOTE]
.
All I did was ask a question that you felt was not appropriate, watch out things might get in a twist.

I'm only saying, things aren't as cut and dried as you and some others would like to believe.[/QUOTE]

I was simply asking a question--just like you were. You seemed to smart to think that those appearances were the coming Jesus talked about, based on other input you shared in other areas; yet that is exactly what you proposed. That made me question whether you were offering a serious or just being argumentative. So, that is why I asked the question.

 

[Oldmantook]

Matthew16: 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28: Truly I say to you, There are some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 8:38 Whoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And he said to them, Truly I say to you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:26 For whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

These verses you have cited when viewed in proper context all refer to spiritual death - not physical death.