Jesus taught the "Mysteries of God" to a few in secret.

[Jeo7]

So did Paul....but unfortunately such teachings were made a HERASY to God, guess by who? The Romans and early church leaders. Why? Because it gave "to much power" to the people, as written in many accounts by these individuals.
Yes, these teachings are not "Orthodox" as i just expained why. These teachings are not written down, they're passed down from teacher to student, just as the Jews have an Oral tradition, so did Jesus.
*Hint: He was a Jew.
Read Mark 4, Matthew 13....Read what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2 where he states that the "Mysteries" are for the mature.
What are these "Mysteries"??? They're all in the old testament, and Jesus spoke about them in PARABLES, but only those who have ears to hear, will hear, and those with eyes to see, will see.
At one point, the early Christians knew about these teachings, not the common Christians who knew the basics, but the mature in their faith, who were killed even AFTER Rome became a Christian Empire. Ask youselves why.....

 

[RBPerry]

Your comment is very interesting and I wonder if you found some of your information in the Nag Hammurabi scrolls. What I found interesting them is they suggest that Paul may have very well been a Gnostic Christian or leaned towards their teachings.

Of course our Catholic brothers murdered the Gnostic thinking by spreading gossip that seems like there wasn't much truth to. I truly wish the scrolls were complete and not so fragmented.

Be careful stepping outside of orthodox beliefs, you will find a great deal of resistance.

 

[Jeo7]

Your comment is very interesting and I wonder if you found some of your information in the Nag Hammurabi scrolls. What I found interesting them is they suggest that Paul may have very well been a Gnostic Christian or leaned towards their teachings.

Of course our Catholic brothers murdered the Gnostic thinking by spreading gossip that seems like there wasn't much truth to. I truly wish the scrolls were complete and not so fragmented.

Be careful stepping outside of orthodox beliefs, you will find a great deal of resistance.

Wow brother. I'm glad there's someone here who understands this !! Yes, I have to be very careful how to come about these topics.

 

[RBPerry]

I'm not implying I support any teachings outside or our orthodox beliefs. Be very careful researching the old scrolls, or Gnostic thinking. You could easily get led down a road you really shouldn't travel.
Most believers today don't realize that the Catholics didn't ratify the bible until the reformation began. Luther really through a wrench into the Catholic thinking the along came Calvin. Oh well study, but stay focused on Jesus.

 

[pescador]

Yes you do have to be careful. The bible warns about false teachers (2 Peter) and Gnosticism was rejected by the early church for just that reason. Gnostics claimed, as you do, that there is secret knowledge known only to some; obviously you include yourself in that category. Paul told the church in Corinth "God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise". IMHO that's where Gnosticism and other "secret knowledge" fits. Perhaps you should go back to drinking milk!

 

[Jeo7]

I'm not implying I support any teachings outside or our orthodox beliefs. Be very careful researching the old scrolls, or Gnostic thinking. You could easily get led down a road you really shouldn't travel.
Most believers today don't realize that the Catholics didn't ratify the bible until the reformation began. Luther really through a wrench into the Catholic thinking the along came Calvin. Oh well study, but stay focused on Jesus.

I don't follow the Gnostic teachings, I follow the teachings of Christ as we all should. Though they're many things Christ taught which are very similar with Gnostic teachings. Jesus The Christ said, "If you want to know more about me, read the scriptures." He was not talking about the NT, because it was not written yet lol he was talking about the OT. There's a deeper understanding in the OT that only few can understand. I'm Jewish, and that's the reason many Jews are into mysticism. Christians today have completely rejected such KNOWLEDGE ....

 

[Jeo7]

Yes you do have to be careful. The bible warns about false teachers (2 Peter) and Gnosticism was rejected by the early church for just that reason. Gnostics claimed, as you do, that there is secret knowledge known only to some; obviously you include yourself in that category. Paul told the church in Corinth "God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise". IMHO that's where Gnosticism and other "secret knowledge" fits. Perhaps you should go back to drinking milk!

Na my friend. Paul was referring it to the worldly philosophies of man. Remember, *hint: The Greeks.
They believed in many crazy things about their god's ext.... Paul was teaching them about Christ and a God not known to them. Paul himself KNEW the secret mysteries. Which is in the scriptures, but you have to have the eyes to see.

 

[Jeo7]

Yes you do have to be careful. The bible warns about false teachers (2 Peter) and Gnosticism was rejected by the early church for just that reason. Gnostics claimed, as you do, that there is secret knowledge known only to some; obviously you include yourself in that category. Paul told the church in Corinth "God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise". IMHO that's where Gnosticism and other "secret knowledge" fits. Perhaps you should go back to drinking milk!

We drink the milk but don't eat the bread brother. We know the basics but rejected the spiritual !!
The reason this knowledge is kept away from those who are not LOOKING.
Remember, Jesus said, "Knock and the doors will be opened, ASK and you will receive."
The gates to heaven are not wide brother, but narrow. Many are called but few are chosen.

 

[Jeo7]

Your comment is very interesting and I wonder if you found some of your information in the Nag Hammurabi scrolls. What I found interesting them is they suggest that Paul may have very well been a Gnostic Christian or leaned towards their teachings.

Of course our Catholic brothers murdered the Gnostic thinking by spreading gossip that seems like there wasn't much truth to. I truly wish the scrolls were complete and not so fragmented.

Be careful stepping outside of orthodox beliefs, you will find a great deal of resistance.

And brother. They'recomplete, but it's not written in plain words. Read the old testament, everything is there, especially in the book of genesis.

 

[ozarkview]

And brother. They'recomplete, but it's not written in plain words. Read the old testament, everything is there, especially in the book of genesis.

Very good, someone has been seeing from a different view...
If you don't understand the beginning nothing else will come to light correctly.

Is there something specific that weighs on you?

 

[TRWord]

The Book of Acts confirms what you are saying here totally.

History bears it out as well.

Knowing and following His teaching was a crime punishable even by death from Stephen (SEE Acts:7) until 313 AD.

After 300 years of persecution and still not being able to destroy the teaching, then came the diocletianic persecution (or the Great Persecution) which was the last and most severe period of persecution, more or less a last ditch effort to stamp out the teaching once and for all.

When this failed, then came the cleverest move of all, Constantine I later to be known as Constantine the Great claimed conversion.

Using the age old strategy of, “if you can’t beat them join them,” he adopted Christianity, and he began exercising his authority over it.

In 313 AD, he passed the Edict of Milan legitimizing Christianity, then in 325 AD he convoked the First Council of Nicaea. This resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed.

As Christianity became legitimate, Christian persecution disappeared and so did the idea of discipleship. The Teaching of Jesus Christ was replaced by Christian doctrine and the promises of Jesus Christ also vanished. By 391 AD Theodosius I established Nicene Christianity as the official and, except for Judaism, the only legal religion in the Roman Empire.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't know if I'm correct on this but I think the churches problem with gnosis was that it was defined as self-knowledge, or knowledge of the self, and that the truth could be found simply by looking to your conscience and within your heart, and I think that the churches problem with this was that it taught that the truth could be known by simply looking within oneself and being honest in your conscience and your heart, the main problem with this (and you have to careful, because this is what the world is currently trying to teach) but the main problem I believe the church had with this, is that they claimed that the type of knowledge they (the Gnostics) were seeking and writing about/publishing and knowing is that it had no need of scripture, nor of anyone else to teach them, according to gnosis the truth can be found by being honest and simply looking within without having to have any other frame of reference, including the Bible, or Jesus teachings from scripture...

Thank God, and I'm hoping most of you today are not far right or left true Gnostics, otherwise you would claim, like the rest of the world is trying to claim and leave out, that there is no need for any kind of teacher or Holy book, or even other's experiences and human knowledge, Gnosis combined with scripture, is a good thing, but to an extreme (extremist) gnostic means that you think that all truth and morals and the like can all be derived by just being honest with yourself and listening to your conscience, and following your heart, and by discovering the "truth within" without any need of outside influence or help... Whic is seen by the extreme Gnostic to just confound you and confuse the "truth within", yes, be very careful, this is the way the world seems to be going...

God Bless!

 

[RBPerry]

Gnosis combined with scripture, is a good thing, but to an extreme (extremist) gnostic means that you think that all truth and morals and the like can all be derived by just being honest with yourself and listening to your conscience,

Since very little is known about the early Gnostic believers I think the current group may very well be much different than the original group. I have read some of their material, and I agree once we move away from the Bible and begin to follow our own logic or beliefs we are in danger of being led astray.

I love to study various beliefs and denominations, but I always use the Bible as a guide in and attempt to sort out fact from fiction. Of course anything that would draw me away from Jesus and his teachings I will reject

 

[tremble]

Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm understanding what's already been said, properly. Has anyone already said what these mysteries are?

I think Jeo has said a few times that people need eyes to see it. Jeo, are you saying that you do see these mysteries? And if so, can you elaborate?

 

[RBPerry]

but to an extreme (extremist) gnostic means that you think that all truth and morals and the like can all be derived by just being honest with yourself and listening to your conscience, and following your heart, and by discovering the "truth within" without any need of outside influence or help... Whic is seen by the extreme Gnostic to just confound you and confuse the "truth within", yes, be very careful, this is the way the world seems to be going...

This is such a good point, and extreme Gnostic thinking will lead to your truth isn't my truth so truth then becomes subjective and there are no absolutes. Very dangerous ideology.

 

[tremble]

I don't know if I'm correct on this but I think the churches problem with gnosis was that it was defined as self-knowledge, or knowledge of the self, and that the truth could be found simply by looking to your conscience and within your heart, and I think that the churches problem with this was that it taught that the truth could be known by simply looking within oneself and being honest in your conscience and your heart, the main problem with this (and you have to careful, because this is what the world is currently trying to teach) but the main problem I believe the church had with this, is that they claimed that the type of knowledge they (the Gnostics) were seeking and writing about/publishing and knowing is that it had no need of scripture, nor of anyone else to teach them, according to gnosis the truth can be found by being honest and simply looking within without having to have any other frame of reference, including the Bible, or Jesus teachings from scripture...

Thank God, and I'm hoping most of you today are not far right or left true Gnostics, otherwise you would claim, like the rest of the world is trying to claim and leave out, that there is no need for any kind of teacher or Holy book, or even other's experiences and human knowledge, Gnosis combined with scripture, is a good thing, but to an extreme (extremist) gnostic means that you think that all truth and morals and the like can all be derived by just being honest with yourself and listening to your conscience, and following your heart, and by discovering the "truth within" without any need of outside influence or help... Whic is seen by the extreme Gnostic to just confound you and confuse the "truth within", yes, be very careful, this is the way the world seems to be going...

God Bless!

I think there is room for both. The Bible itself says that we don't need human teachers (1 Jn 2:27). The Holy Spirit can still work/teach in situations where people either have no knowledge of Jesus and the Bible, or no access to a Bible.

However, It would be silly to refuse to use the tools the HS has already given us, in the form of the Bible. The same could be said of counsel from anyone God chooses to speak through, whether it's the writers of the Bible, or any other person who is listening to God.

 

[Neogaia777]

I think there is room for both. The Bible itself says that we don't need human teachers (1 Jn 2:27). The Holy Spirit can still work/teach in situations where people either have no knowledge of Jesus and the Bible, or no access to a Bible.

However, It would be silly to refuse to use the tools the HS has already given us, in the form of the Bible. The same could be said of counsel from anyone God chooses to speak through, whether it's the writers of the Bible, or any other person who is listening to God.

As I said, a form of Gnostic thinking, the kind that separates itself from the teachings of this current world (western society) combined with Biblical understanding as a foundation, could be a good thing, however like with the original early church groups labeled Gnostic's by the RCC, didn't necessarily have wide access to Bibles, so they had to either write their own truths that they had learned form the oral teachings of apostles/disciples that came and preached to them, or rely heavily on prayer, and through that prayer, revelation by the Holy Spirit.

I don't know if gnosis combined with prayer and submissive position and faith to a One true God, would be enough or not, but I certainly do know that Gnosis without God and prayer, Like athiest philosophers, will lead you down the wrong road for sure...

 

[pescador]

The Book of Acts confirms what you are saying here totally.

History bears it out as well.

Knowing and following His teaching was a crime punishable even by death from Stephen (SEE Acts:7) until 313 AD.

After 300 years of persecution and still not being able to destroy the teaching, then came the diocletianic persecution (or the Great Persecution) which was the last and most severe period of persecution, more or less a last ditch effort to stamp out the teaching once and for all.

When this failed, then came the cleverest move of all, Constantine I later to be known as Constantine the Great claimed conversion.

Using the age old strategy of, “if you can’t beat them join them,” he adopted Christianity, and he began exercising his authority over it.

In 313 AD, he passed the Edict of Milan legitimizing Christianity, then in 325 AD he convoked the First Council of Nicaea. This resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed.

As Christianity became legitimate, Christian persecution disappeared and so did the idea of discipleship. The Teaching of Jesus Christ was replaced by Christian doctrine and the promises of Jesus Christ also vanished. By 391 AD Theodosius I established Nicene Christianity as the official and, except for Judaism, the only legal religion in the Roman Empire.

And..? The story doesn't stop there. It goes on for centuries and centuries after 391 C.E.

 

[Jeo7]

The message of Jesus The Christ is fairly simple. Believe in God and let the Holy Spirit do its thing for yourself and the rest of humanity, in other words, LIVE ACCORDING TO THE GOOD. But that's the general message of Jesus. We Christians struggle with that SIMPLICITY, of living by the greater good with all of our brothers and sisters and the rest of mankind, that the spiritual works are something most of us don't get to even hear about. In fact, most of DONT CARE. Jesus taught a secret doctrine to the mature in faith, like Paul mentioned. That's because not EVERYONE is ready to understand. The secret doctrine is about working on the Temple not made with human hands. It is a spiritual work between a man and a woman (husband and wife), the reason Jesus' main teachings were about matrimony and family.

 

[tremble]

Jesus taught a secret doctrine to the mature in faith, like Paul mentioned. That's because not EVERYONE is ready to understand. The secret doctrine is about working on the Temple not made with human hands. It is a spiritual work between a man and a woman (husband and wife), the reason Jesus' main teachings were about matrimony and family.

Thanks for that clarification, Jeo. Would you mind further clarifying what you mean by "working on the temple not made with human hands"?