Walk together

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2021
469
221
sydney
✟30,237.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Labor
Jesus really suffered during his time on earth. His suffering was never to be in vain as we can all share in his triumph. The last days that Jesus spent on this earth were to be his greatest time of pain as he was tortured and belittled by many his very last cry to his father was why have you forsaken me. This cry to his father was to show us that his pain was very real. I can only imagine the pain that God himself must have felt as he gave his son Jesus to us as a sacrifice and offer us a way out of the mess that we find ourselves in. We must cry for Jesus and be grateful that we need not cry for ourselves.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: sandman

sandman

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2003
2,458
1,640
MI
✟119,129.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
US-Constitution
The horrific death of Jesus Christ who spent nearly 40 hours from the time of his capture to the crucifixion being mocked, ridiculed, beat, whipped, crowned with thorns twice….. and each time his cloths were ripped off the dried blood and scabs sticking to them would be painfully ripped off.

It is hard to even imagine what He went through.

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

One of the things that has always bothered me was the verses in Matthew and Mark ….they just don’t seem to fit with the rest.

The following is a study I did a while ago …I will just throw it in for consideration.

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?



Consider the following scripture:


John 10:30

I and my Father are one.
The word “one” hen neuter, means “one in purpose”
How could they be one in purpose….. and have God forsake Him on the cross.

How about:

II Corinthians 5:19a

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…
How could God be in Christ and forsake him?

John 16:32

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me


Matthew 26:53

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels

God would have given Jesus more than 72,000 angels …. At any point, Jesus could have walked away with a massive number of spiritual bodyguards.



How do we reconcile these scriptures with Matthew 27:46…and Mark 15:34…. it would appear to be a contradiction of terms.


It has been said that God hated sin so much that he had to turn away during the final moments of His only begotten sons life…..that really doesn’t fit.

Another consideration has been the quote from psalms 22 …maybe… but it still doesn’t fit.

One of the principles of biblical research is when you have several clear verses, and one that seemingly contradict those clear …..then it is either in our understanding, or in translation…..In this case I believe it is translation.

The words Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani are Aramaic, that is the language Jesus spoke
There is no such Aramaic word as lama however there is a word lmna which is a declaration as in “for this reason” or “for this purpose”
The word sabachthani comes from the root word shbk which means “to spare, or to keep, to leave, or reserve”. (The word remaining in the following verses have all been translated from shbk II Kings 10:11, Deuteronomy 3:3, Joshua 10:33)


Literally this should read Eli, Eli, lmna sabachthani that is to say, “My God, My God, for this reason, or for this purpose was I reserved, or spared”.

For this purpose Christ came into this world….. the purpose of our redemption…

Now that would be an interesting study if we left it there…but let’s put some icing on the cake

**From the Peshitta {Aramaic text} this reads Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani “My God, My God, for this I was spared or this was my destiny”.

Another interesting fact: many eastern Bibles have “for this purpose I was spared” while the Occidental translations all read “why hast thou forsaken me.


**The words in Matthew 46 are not Greek words ….they are Aramaic, Jesus spoke Aramaic. These Aramaic word show up in this particular scripture, because the translators were not absolutely certain about their meaning. (Aramaic and Hebrew are close related Semitic languages).

When the words Jesus spoke were translated into Greek, the translators let the Aramaic words remain and then they added what they thought the Greek translation might be. Later when the King James translators were translating from the Greek manuscripts, they simply translated the Greek and left Aramaic words in the text.

One Aramaic scholar whose native tongue was Aramaic translated the Bible from Ancient eastern manuscripts. His translation from Aramaic is My God My God for this I was kept. He also noted that the words “that is to say” (Matthew 27) and “which is, being interpreted” (Mark 15) are not included in two old Aramaic sources the Sinaitic Palimpsest and the Curetonian Syriac. The translators of the Greek text added this these phrases…. and also left the Aramaic because they were not sure at handle the words.


I’ll let you decide ….. But that aside ….I am so thankful for what Jesus Christ endured for you and for me.
 
Upvote 0

Walk together

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2021
469
221
sydney
✟30,237.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Labor
The horrific death of Jesus Christ who spent nearly 40 hours from the time of his capture to the crucifixion being mocked, ridiculed, beat, whipped, crowned with thorns twice….. and each time his cloths were ripped off the dried blood and scabs sticking to them would be painfully ripped off.

It is hard to even imagine what He went through.

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

One of the things that has always bothered me was the verses in Matthew and Mark ….they just don’t seem to fit with the rest.

The following is a study I did a while ago …I will just throw it in for consideration.

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?



Consider the following scripture:


John 10:30

I and my Father are one.
The word “one” hen neuter, means “one in purpose”
How could they be one in purpose….. and have God forsake Him on the cross.

How about:

II Corinthians 5:19a

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…
How could God be in Christ and forsake him?

John 16:32

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me


Matthew 26:53

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels

God would have given Jesus more than 72,000 angels …. At any point, Jesus could have walked away with a massive number of spiritual bodyguards.



How do we reconcile these scriptures with Matthew 27:46…and Mark 15:34…. it would appear to be a contradiction of terms.


It has been said that God hated sin so much that he had to turn away during the final moments of His only begotten sons life…..that really doesn’t fit.

Another consideration has been the quote from psalms 22 …maybe… but it still doesn’t fit.

One of the principles of biblical research is when you have several clear verses, and one that seemingly contradict those clear …..then it is either in our understanding, or in translation…..In this case I believe it is translation.

The words Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani are Aramaic, that is the language Jesus spoke
There is no such Aramaic word as lama however there is a word lmna which is a declaration as in “for this reason” or “for this purpose”
The word sabachthani comes from the root word shbk which means “to spare, or to keep, to leave, or reserve”. (The word remaining in the following verses have all been translated from shbk II Kings 10:11, Deuteronomy 3:3, Joshua 10:33)


Literally this should read Eli, Eli, lmna sabachthani that is to say, “My God, My God, for this reason, or for this purpose was I reserved, or spared”.

For this purpose Christ came into this world….. the purpose of our redemption…

Now that would be an interesting study if we left it there…but let’s put some icing on the cake

**From the Peshitta {Aramaic text} this reads Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani “My God, My God, for this I was spared or this was my destiny”.

Another interesting fact: many eastern Bibles have “for this purpose I was spared” while the Occidental translations all read “why hast thou forsaken me.


**The words in Matthew 46 are not Greek words ….they are Aramaic, Jesus spoke Aramaic. These Aramaic word show up in this particular scripture, because the translators were not absolutely certain about their meaning. (Aramaic and Hebrew are close related Semitic languages).

When the words Jesus spoke were translated into Greek, the translators let the Aramaic words remain and then they added what they thought the Greek translation might be. Later when the King James translators were translating from the Greek manuscripts, they simply translated the Greek and left Aramaic words in the text.

One Aramaic scholar whose native tongue was Aramaic translated the Bible from Ancient eastern manuscripts. His translation from Aramaic is My God My God for this I was kept. He also noted that the words “that is to say” (Matthew 27) and “which is, being interpreted” (Mark 15) are not included in two old Aramaic sources the Sinaitic Palimpsest and the Curetonian Syriac. The translators of the Greek text added this these phrases…. and also left the Aramaic because they were not sure at handle the words.


I’ll let you decide ….. But that aside ….I am so thankful for what Jesus Christ endured for you and for me.
Thank you Sandman for your reply. I think if I understand your question correctly Jesus cried out to his father why have you let me suffer for so long as Jesus had spent so much time on the cross in great pain. Jesus endured such real pain to show the world the importance of his sacrifice. Jesus knew that he was being persecuted well before the day came as he was very brave and continued with his mission that his father had sent him to fulfil. The day before his capture Jesus was sweating blood from his face as the horror of what was to come grow near. Yet Jesus continued to the point of surrender only giving himself up to his captors as only a brave man can. God chose his first and most loved creation to pay the price that only he could. If there was only one person to save Jesus would have done the same and that is why we can take Jesus sacrifice so personly as he suffered for all that will accept him as lord and saviour.
 
Upvote 0

Walk together

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2021
469
221
sydney
✟30,237.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Labor
Sandman if I may add as I missed your point I believe Jesus is a separate entity to god but having said that Jesus is the closest to his father for many reasons he is the most deserving the purest and has remained at his father's side. So God can allow Jesus to be his greatest representative to act on God,s behalf and take his father's place as God on earth as God has said no man can look upon me and live but we can look upon Jesus and recognise his father through him.
 
Upvote 0