Jesus prays to the father?

[thejdubb02]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

 

[stumpjumper]

As the incarnate logos, God limited himself in some ways of glory and took on the likeness of a man. In Philippians 2 it is described as such: "(Jesus) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."

There is also a distinction between the pre-Easter and post-Easter Jesus in most theologies. The pre-Easter Jesus was fully God and fully man in a hypostatic union while the risen Christ had shown us the risen state of those who are saved in the resurrection and had defeated temporal existence and life. This is why Jesus says to Mary Magdalen just after the resurrection "do not cling to me for I have not yet ascended to the Father" and that is because his and our risen state is markedly different from human existence...

Here is an entry about the emptying of God in Jesus:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08617a.htm

 

[Rafael]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

It is not really easy to understand how God is able to be three distinct persons yet One God, but it can be accepted by faith that He is able to do this. See all the other things He has done that we do not fully understand? Although there are many things like this, someday, we will know as we are known. This is what the word says.

1Co 13:12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.

 

[linssue55]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

The Trinity

1. Definition: (Points 1-4).

....God is one in essence, yet three distinct persons.

....A. Unity of the Godhead; (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20, Col 2:9)
....B. Three Persons of one substance, power and eternity;

........The Persons of The Godhead all have 10 distinct attributes:

........Omniscience: all knowing.
........Omnipotence: all power.
........Omnipresence: infinite presence.
........Sovereignty: Supreme Being of the Universe.
........Veracity: Truth.
........Immutablilty: Unchanging, "not subject to change or variation in quality or nature or form".
........Eternal Life: timeless existence without beginning or end.
........Justice: absolute fairness, equity, judgement.
........Righteousness: intrinsic Good, intergrity, honor, uprightness..
........Love: infinite capacity for affection, esteem, respect, and pleasure of same.

2. Full title of God; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:19, 2Cor 13:14)


3. Each Person of God possesses identical Divine attributes, making them co-equal one with the other. (Jn 10:30, 16:15).

4. When the Bible speaks of God as being One it is a reference to the essence which the Persons of the
....Godhead share, whereas the unique names of each Person speak of the individual Person, and not all three.

5. Analogy to Light; This is only an example

....A. Light is composed of three elements; Actinic, Liminiferous and Calorific.
....B. Application; Although light is perceived as one achromatic phenomenon, it possesses three exclusive
........properties, each of which is a parallel to one unique Person of God;
........(1) Actinic light is neither seen nor felt; The Father.
........(2) Luminiferous light is both seen and felt; The Son
........(2) Calorific light is felt, but not seen; The Holy Spirit

6. The Trinity in the Old Testement:

....A. Hebrew word "Elohim", plural. (Deut 6:4)
....B. The Father, 1st Person. (Gen 1:3, Isa 53:10)
....C. The Son, 2nd Person. (Gen 1:1, Cf. Jn 1:3, Col 1:16, Isa 53, 63:8, Micah 5:2)
....D. The Holy Spirit, 3rd Person. (Gen 1:2 w/Psa 104:30, Gen 41:38, Num 27:18, 1 Sam 16:13, Psa 139:7)

7. The Trinity in the New Testement:

......Emphasis is on the individual Persons of the Trinity as expressed in their unique roles in the
......Plan of God:

....A. The Father planned</B> salvation; (Isa 14:27, Jn 4:34, 5:17, 12:44, 1:24; 1Cor 8:6, Eph 3:11).
....B.The Son executes the plan of salvation; (Jn 4:34, 5:17, Heb 10:7).
....C. The Holy Spirit reveals the plan of salvation;
...........(1) To unbelievers; (Jn 16:8-11).
...........(2) To believers; (Jn 16:13,14; 1Cor 2;10).

9. Jesus Christ is the only visible member of The Godhead;
.........(Jn 1:18, 6:46; 1Yim 6:16, 1Jn 4:12).

10. Doctrine of Procession;

.....A. The Father sent the Son; (Jn 17:3, Gal 4:4).
.....B. The Father and Son sent the Holy Spirit; (Jn 14:26, 15:26).
.....C. Christ sends The Comforter; (Jn 16:7).

 

[thepianist]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

Hello Justin. There are many times during Jesus' life that he prayed to the 'father'.....to me it is like He was showing us that we should rely on our communication with God. Even the disciples asked Him how to pray...and He showed them. Hope this helps.

 

[RichardT]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

This is the way I see it , Jesus is a Man , ( 3D) ,but fully God in Man , though Jesus , being a Man can't perform miracles on his own without the help of the Father ( spiritual ) , This makes so much sense to me !

 

[MikeMcK]

5. Analogy to Light; This is only an example

....A. Light is composed of three elements; Actinic, Liminiferous and Calorific.
....B. Application; Although light is perceived as one achromatic phenomenon, it possesses three exclusive
........properties, each of which is a parallel to one unique Person of God;
........(1) Actinic light is neither seen nor felt; The Father.
........(2) Luminiferous light is both seen and felt; The Son
........(2) Calorific light is felt, but not seen; The Holy Spirit

I don't know if that would technically qualify as modalism, but it sure sounds close.

 

[thejdubb02]

This is the way I see it , Jesus is a Man , ( 3D) ,but fully God in Man , though Jesus , being a Man can't perform miracles on his own without the help of the Father ( spiritual ) , This makes so much sense to me !

This did help actually.

Thank you all for sharing, I understand it much better now.


- Justin

 

[calidog]

During his crucifiction, Jesus talks to his 'father' many times... is Jesus not part of the trinity and therefore the 'father?'

I know its probably pretty easy to understand, but I cant figure it out myself.

- Justin

He is God's only Son. He is the second person of the trinity. He is God, but not the Father.
It is definately not easy to understand or explain, it is just what God says about Himself.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

My belief is this: Jesus, God in the flesh, came here to die for our sins. In the times that He prayed to His Father, He was showing an example - showing that we should rely on our Father in our times of need.

Think of this - did Jesus have to be baptized? Of course not! But He was. He was showing us how, a way that God is pleased with. And clearly, as scripture tells us happened afterwards, God said "This is My Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus showed us God's own love. Jesus showed us how to be baptized for the remission of sins. Jesus walked in order to show us how to walk. Jesus showed us how to resist Satan. You may wonder why He it in this way - well, first off, who are we to question God's works? Secondly, God gave us Jesus, a being in our image, so that we may be able to understand God. Surely He didn't need to come in the flesh to show us how to walk in Christ's image, yet because He did, we have a greater understanding. Thirdly, as it's written, we cannot look upon the face of God - it's too great for any man to behold. Even when Moses went to see God on the mountaintop to receive the Commandments, he didn't look God directly in the face.

I hope that this makes sense to you.

 

[ebia]

I don't know if that would technically qualify as modalism, but it sure sounds close.

Any analogy of the Trinity is necessarily flawed and falls down on one heresy or another. But they can still be helpful in explaining some aspect of the relationship if used carefully.

 

[revmalone]

When Jesus cried out to God notice he cried out twice
"My God, My God"

Jesus was talking to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as he was saying these words. Once at the Father and the second God the Holy Spirit. He couldn't say it a 3rd time because he is the other.

Plus it was told in psalms 22:1 Jesus the messiah would utter them, but he was not quoting it, he was crying out to his family. and he had the weight of all the sin in the world placed on him at that time. This was the price he paid , seperation from God his family.

Bro Malone

 

[Diamonds2004]

Instead of some high-sounding speak, I would rather speak "table" talk.

I would say the best example I have heard of someone using a physical thing to be used as analogy to God's triune nature would be "time".

In real life, time had a beginning wiht the Big Bang and there is a point in the future where time will end.
In theory, time can go back forever into the past and forever into the future. Time is composed of past, present, and future. All three are distinct and have specific qualities, but all three are time. Past is time, present is time, and future is time. Three aspects of one whole that is also three simutaneously.

I will honestly confess that no one, including me, knows everything about the triune nature of God. If someone did, then God would be a end result of some man's thoughts.

God is who He is and is Himself regardless of whatever humanity thinks of Him.

 

[GenemZ]

I don't know if that would technically qualify as modalism, but it sure sounds close.

Modalism? In what way? Did you recently learn about Modalism?

Here is an example of Modalism...

http://www.contendingforthefaith.com/responses/booklets/modalism.html

According to the modalistic concept of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not equally and eternally co-existent, but are merely three successive manifestations of God, or three temporary modes of His activity.

linssue55 said, exactly the opposite!

The Trinity

1. Definition: (Points 1-4).

....God is one in essence, yet three distinct persons.

....A. Unity of the Godhead; (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20, Col 2:9)
....B. Three Persons of one substance, power and eternity;

........The Persons of The Godhead all have 10 distinct attributes:

........Omniscience: all knowing.
........Omnipotence: all power.
........Omnipresence: infinite presence.
........Sovereignty: Supreme Being of the Universe.
........Veracity: Truth.
........Immutablilty: Unchanging, "not subject to change or variation in quality or nature or form".
........Eternal Life: timeless existence without beginning or end.
........Justice: absolute fairness, equity, judgement.
........Righteousness: intrinsic Good, intergrity, honor, uprightness..
........Love: infinite capacity for affection, esteem, respect, and pleasure of same.

2. Full title of God; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:19, 2Cor 13:14)


3. Each Person of God possesses identical Divine attributes, making them co-equal one with the other. (Jn 10:30, 16:15).

All you did was to grab one thing she said out of the context of the whole, then slam her with the accusation of Modalism! Come on! Wake up!

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[Fares]

Guys , to be able to understand alot of actions of Jesus is to beleive in the Trinity,
to beleive in the Trinity you need to understand it ,
to understand it you need to know its purpose on earth .
The Trinity has a simple yet very difficult task on this earth , its lead the woman/man to salvation .
How does the Trinity achieve such salvation ?
It teachs the World of God, it guides us in our way and it will judge us at the end .
A human life is 3 phases, past, present and future .
Jesus is the past as he taught us and set an example ,
the Holy Spirit guides us and protects the Church
and the Father will judge us in the after life .
So actually you have : God taught us , guides us and will judge us .
God is the past, present and future of humans . He is everything .

How does Jesus past the World of God ?
He first shows the right way , then walk it . He gives the "theory" and give a practical example .
Thats why you see him alot of times regonizing a higher power and praying .
He is not praying to himself , he is telling us that when ever you feel lost and need guidance,
turn to God and he will guide and show you the right path .
Another purpose of Jesus is to create a closer relationship between men and God .

I hope this answers your question brother .

 

[heron]

Simplifying things even more...

Prayer is conversation.

Prayer is needed when the person you'd like to talk to isn't visible in front of you.

Prayer, usually to a supernatural being, involves pleading on others' behalf, requesting assistance, conveying remorse, and conveying appreciation.

I know it sounds odd that Jesus would have to pray, but I think it's more a matter of communication modes--Jesus in human form and the Father in spirit form.​

 

[heron]

Okay, here's a weirder thought...

The New Testament says that the Holy Spirit dwells in us...we are His temples. The Old Testament says that God dwells in tabernacles we build for Him.

Does that mean that God is like the internet, with millions of servers around the universe?

 

[MikeMcK]

All you did was to grab one thing she said out of the context of the whole, then slam her with the accusation of Modalism! Come on! Wake up!

In Christ, GeneZ

What are you talking about? I didn't "slam" anybody. Nor did I accuse anybody of teaching modalism. I simply said that his explanation sounded like it bordered on modalism and gave him an opportunity to clarify what he said.

You need to calm down and stop seeing accusations and "slamming" where there are none.

 

[calidog]

Okay, here's a weirder thought...

The New Testament says that the Holy Spirit dwells in us...we are His temples. The Old Testament says that God dwells in tabernacles we build for Him.

Does that mean that God is like the internet, with millions of servers around the universe?

a good analogy or picture

 

[*~DJ~*]

Our tiny little minds (compared to God'd) cannot fully grasp the whole concept of Him because we are sinners! The best way I have ever heard the Trinity described is like an egg! There is the hard outter shell, the white part, then the yolk, 3 distinct parts, yet one whole egg! God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus is like the egg, 3 seperate parts all in 1.