Jesus of History and Myth

[Erik Nelson]

I'm exactly NOT a believe because theists can't live upto their burden of proof.

The Bible is a compilation of scores of eyewitness reports of Anomalous. Phenomena. Occurring up on this planet over thousands and thousands of years.

The Bible is evidence.

You are required to admit that, according to the strictures of logic.

Eyewitness reports are considered direct evidence in any Court of law.

It's upto the one claiming that there WAS such an intervention, to support that claim.
Failing to do so, is the reason why I don't accept said claim.

Eyewitness reports of an event are evidence.

You are required to admit that.

I don't require "faith" for things that demonstrably work.

Faith and belief are synonyms. You believe in science. Because of its track record it to date. You have a reasonable belief in the usefulness of science.

Faith is what you require to accept theistic claims.
I don't have such faith. So I don't accept those claims.

That's a misconception. A very understandable one. But a misconception nonetheless.

You are referring to "blind faith" aka "blind belief" = believing in something to be true without any evidence of any kind whatsoever at all.

Christianity is not based on blind belief. It's based on the belief. That the eye witnesses. To all of the supernatural phenomena reported in the Bible? Were in fact credible truthful honest witnesses

for example? The Apostles all said they saw Jesus alive after the crucifixion. Christians believe that the Apostles did in fact. Meet and talk with Jesus after the crucifixion. They believe and trust and have faith in the eye witness testimony of the Apostles.

Every court on Earth accepts eye witness testimony as direct evidence. Witnesses are allowed to speak and to speak with weight in the courtroom. Even in the absence of hard physical tangible evidence corroborating their claims.

Reality requires you to admit that.

There is no such thing as a legal objection in the courtroom. Dis barring a witness from taking the stand. On the grounds that there is no hard physical evidence to corroborate their claims.

eye witness testimony, from Credible witnesses, Has always been considered good strong evidence

please acknowledge that

What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Sure, of course. That's obvious everyone acknowledges that.

Eyewitness testimony. IS direct evidence in any court of law? Please acknowledge that.

We know for a fact that humans are very prone to being mistaken, lying, deceived, superstitious,.....

Sorry, I require a little bit more then just the word of biased people who lived during a time when they didn't even realise the earth orbits the sun and who interpreted just about everything they didn't understand as some "miracle".

The Middle East is the cradle of human civilization. They invented farming. Agriculture. Cities. Civil government. Plows. Money. Economics. Mathematics. Science. Finance and banking. Long distance trade.

By the time of Christ. The most educated people in the Middle East knew a lot about astronomy. Planetary orbits. Eclipses They could predict them far in advance.

Middle easterners in the cradle of human civilization. Did not see supernatural action Behind every shadow. And shrub.

You are denigrating. Anatomically modern humans. With a full 1500 to 2000. Cubic centimeters of brain matter. In the cradle of human civilization on Earth, Who invented Everything that you rely on for your modern lifestyle at its most basic foundational level. You are standing on their anatomically modern shoulders.

Whatever you say about them You say about the "rug under your feet"

I don't need to disprove anything because you have nothing to disprove. All you have are bare faith based unfalsifiable claims.

Finally we're getting somewhere.

yet logic would require you to acknowledge. That you are going ad hominem. On all of the eye witnesses. That Christians and other supernaturalists would call to the stand. In. Making their case for the existence. Of. A supernatural actor.

I acknowledge that you just their acknowledged that Christians and other supernaturalists can in fact refer. to eye witness reports. And other "claims" Of supernatural intervention into human history on Earth.

You don't seem to trust those witnesses. And I can't make you. But logic reality and history. Ought to require you to admit that you are being very hard on them.

you are Denigrating as "primitive savages" They who, in fact, founded human civilization up on this planet.

People say a lot of things.
There's also people who "felt the presence" of Allah, Visjnoe, Krisjna, Shiva, Apollo, Thor, Odin,..... But you don't believe them. You only believe those who "felt the presence" of the entity that you already believe in.

Well, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that.

People around the world globally worldwide species wide. Report experiencing the presence of Super Intelligent God like beings. From the heavens. That's the universal religious experience common to all mankind.

It's not entirely completely unlike the UFO phenomena. where people around the world consistently repeatedly continuously report seeing strange objects Flying in Earth's atmosphere. The tsunami of eyewitness reports. Demands some explanation. Surely there is some physical basis To them. Something is happening. People are seeing it. And they report what they saw.

The flood of reports implies that something strange is almost surely actually factually happening.

But when you go there and investigate, there are no craters to be found. No bullets to be seen. No explosions to be heared.

You're not being logically consistent. You're literally missing the boat.

If a supernaturalist tells you. That, they perceived the presence. Of a Super Intelligent God like being from the heavens, By the time you hear of it. And go and grab your gear. And all of your scientific laboratory equipment. And drive back and meet them at the place of the alleged contact...

Hours days or weeks will have passed. You missed the alleged contact. Event. You might eventually get to the right place. But you weren't in the right place at the right time. The right place after the fact doesn't count.

Suiting up and charging out onto the football field. On TUESDAY night. Doesn't make it? For the MONDAY Night Football game.

That said It. Remains the case. That hard physical evidence on Earth of God in heaven. Is rather scant

still think we need to think this all the way through thoroughly You yourself surely acknowledge that human science has its limits. You know that human science is incomplete We have no grand unified theory of everything. Human science is incomplete.

So since you're a reasonable guy and you accept that human science is incomplete Then there are things that human science can not yet explain. And if there are things that he would science cannot yet explain. There would be things that human engineering cannot yet detect. Dark matter dark energy.

If there really are Super Intelligent God like beings in the heavens, Humans on earth would be vastly outclassed. Perfectly plausible that under such an assumed circumstance Humans would be unable. To directly detect Any physical evidence of them at present.

Making stuff up.

That is a serious charge. That is slander and libel until you prove that those whom you accuse. Of lying and deceiving. are in fact liars and deceivers.

Not saying it's never happened. Or that you're automatically wrong. Classical era, historians tell numerous accounts of Charlatans, who prayed up on the ignorance of the uneducated masses of the Pagan Roman Empire.

Of course, they only wrote about the ones who were outed. Nevertheless. The claim is that the Christian, eye witnesses. Were credible honest upstanding. Believable trustworthy people.

Appealing to incredulity.
.

Pretty sure you mean "appealing to CREDULITY." People who believe Things as CREDIBLE. Gullibly and Naively.

Whereas you're the one who's being extremely incredulous, "unable or unwilling to believe something"

I acknowledge that what you have. Stated here. Has merit...

Merit In certain circumstances...

Like the classical era confidence trickster. Who? Fooled. The Greeks. Into believing that he was a God. By. Inserting a snake into an. Ostrich egg and burying the same. Under the foundation of a temple. And then claiming to have had a divine vision. Instructing him to dig. In the same location. I wish I could remember who it was, I'll try to find the reference.

But the claim is that the Apostles of Jesus. Were not such confidence men. For example, they lived out their lives in humble poverty. Serving others. And overseeing charitable causes. They never lived it up. On the proceeds of the people. They Hoodwinked. Into joining their movement.

Virtually all of the 12 Apostles plus Paul were martyred for their beliefs -- Whereas confidence tricksters invariably. Act in a completely different manner. They take money from others and give it to themselves. Whereas the earliest Christians. Charitably donated money time and effort to others. The exact opposite.

So my one line summary for you is "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater". Just because there are confidence tricksters. Doesn't mean that the apostles of Jesus were confidence tricksters too

you're lumping everyone and everything together together. Christians have warned people about Charlatans and their idols and idolatry and Idol worship. For 2000 years. 600 years before that. Daniel. Unmasked. The confidence tricksters in the temples of Mesopotamia. The Prophet Daniel sprinkled flower on the floor of the temples at night. When the priests snuck in. And. Took all of the food. Offered to the Idol. And had it for a midnight snack. They left their footprints on the floor. And so there by Daniel was able to unmask them reveal them for the tricksters and hoaxters they were.

So for almost 3000 years, Judeo Christians have been fighting. Idolatry & idol worship. And Unmasking it all, as an illegitimate bogus hoax.

Now you come along and lump Judeo Christians in with all of those Idol worshippers and all of their idolatry.

The claim is that there is a difference. That there is a signal in amongst the noise. That there is a real tank. Underneath all of the camouflage. That there is a real X Factor. Amongst all of the human hoaxters who attempt to imitate the same for their own personal gain.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Geological and Historical Evidence for Jesus’ Crucifixion Account

there is geologic evidence of a magnitude 5.5 earthquake near Jerusalem in 33ad

 

[Tinker Grey]

Geological and Historical Evidence for Jesus’ Crucifixion Account

there is geologic evidence of a magnitude 5.5 earthquake near Jerusalem in 33ad

Wrong. List of historical earthquakes - Wikipedia

 

[Starcomet]

Are we forgetting that the word "faith" is actually just "trust"? If you trust in someone, you have faith in them. Faith had no special meaning beyond just simple trust when it was used in the ancient word and only in late antiquity up until now does it hold a special meaning from what I can tell. Belief is to hold a position on a certain topic. It may or may not be based on reason or "faith".

 

[bhsmte]

Are we forgetting that the word "faith" is actually just "trust"? If you trust in someone, you have faith in them. Faith had no special meaning beyond just simple trust when it was used in the ancient word and only in late antiquity up until now does it hold a special meaning from what I can tell. Belief is to hold a position on a certain topic. It may or may not be based on reason or "faith".

IMO, people tend to use the terms; faith and trust differently. To me, i trust something, when there is a proven track record and independent verifiable evidence to support that trust. If this is in place, faith does not enter the equation.

I have faith i may win lotto someday, but i trust the lights will turn on, when i flip the switch.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Are we forgetting that the word "faith" is actually just "trust"? If you trust in someone, you have faith in them. Faith had no special meaning beyond just simple trust when it was used in the ancient word and only in late antiquity up until now does it hold a special meaning from what I can tell. Belief is to hold a position on a certain topic. It may or may not be based on reason or "faith".

The Hebrew for 'faith' (emunah) has an active element to it. 'Faithing' might be a good approximation. It denotes actions based on trust.

 

[Starcomet]

IMO, people tend to use the terms; faith and trust differently. To me, i trust something, when there is a proven track record and independent verifiable evidence to support that trust. If this is in place, faith does not enter the equation.

I have faith i may win lotto someday, but i trust the lights will turn on, when i flip the switch.

Yes, but again that is more of modern differentiation thanks to Christianity in my opinion.

The Hebrew for 'faith' (emunah) has an active element to it. 'Faithing' might be a good approximation. It denotes actions based on trust.

Yes, but it again had no special meaning beyond just trust if I recall.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Wrong. List of historical earthquakes - Wikipedia

Since when does Wikipedia Trump. Professional investigators and college professors?

You cited 1 amateur source Wikipedia.

I cited 3 professional published peer reviewed. Geology. Journal articles.

Evidently Wikipedia needs to be updated.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Can A Witness Be Trusted If He Can't Be Cross-Examined? | Cold Case Christianity

If we set the bar high enough to exclude the gospel eyewitness. Testimonies then we simultaneously exclude. Tacitus Suetonius homer Herodotus and all known classical secular historians as well.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Since when does Wikipedia Trump. Professional investigators and college professors?

You cited 1 amateur source Wikipedia.

I cited 3 professional published peer reviewed. Geology. Journal articles.

Evidently Wikipedia needs to be updated.

You provided a link to a Christian Apologist website. The Wiki has 102 professional sources linked in the article.

 

[cvanwey]

no conflicts, just different perspectives which provide different sets of perfectly compatible facts

I'm not sure if you did not get my observation, or if you are declining to address it? Please let me reiterate.

God is the unified author. Differing accounts from differing humans is in direct conflict of the claim of the Bible being solely God inspired. Again, If God is the one and only author of the Bible, then stating that the accounts overlap (somewhat), is in direct contradiction. Each account would be identical, because the account was provided by the very same entity. They should be exact. When reading the accounts of the resurrection, it should not look as if the details differ, (as they do) They would be perfectly uniform and consistent, especially when provided by a unified perfect being.

It's almost as if we are (instead) expected to rely upon human perspectives and human interpretations or something, like any other book of claims written by humans

which were preserved

as if by Divine Providence,

completely consistent with Christian claims

Negative sir. Original manuscripts are completely gone. The further we go backwards, the more sub partial/complete manuscripts deviate. Manuscripts do not become more consistent until centuries later (after it was encouraged to be written about). Your asserted God did not bother to assure they were preserved.

Oral tradition, ultimately manifesting into various writings, is not a reliable mechanism. I trust I should not need to elaborate on this point any further...

the whole point of the (alleged) interaction is God in heaven guiding humans to a better more humane future

humans aren't perfect, God (allegedly) makes do with what's available

i guess God could theoretically surround each text of scripture with a magic glowing force field...

instead God got humans to faithfully replicate accurate copies

got the same job done, same information preserved

Or, the more likely culprit instead, is people eventually wrote of stories and tales heard, after years/decades of circulating oral tradition; from continuing growing legendary tales. Just like many other tales told before and since.

Think how easy it would be for someone like God to 'lay down the law' of truth... Jesus could have floated around globally, handing out carbon fiber wrapped books, with forward and progressive details in which no one knew of during the day. All nations, and their tales of oral tradition would be speaking about the very same tales. And they would all notice they all had the very same copies of the exact same God given book, made of material not yet heard of, also, with literature in the books not yet known about. That would raise an eye brow or three

let's say that is true - God in heaven exists AND foments conflict on earth is perfectly possible scientifically

God could exist AND be deceptive & hostile

the latter does not preclude the former

Think about such a scenario....

God tells a select few people; for them to spread the messages, and then watches as all subsequent people mistranslate, fight, disagree, kill, promote war, alienate, etc., all over genuine interpretive conflicts.

God sets back and does nothing for thousands of years. And yet God is 'good'?

not the story

Beg to differ... Jesus is on earth, and prays to Whom? The answer... Himself (i.e.) father... He cloned Himself. He sent the clone to planet earth to die 30 something years later, only to return back to Himself. It does not logically seem like a sacrifice, especially when you simply end right back where you started. It's kind of like being told you have to go visit an unliked relative for the summer. You get through it, but then get to go back home. Yes, it was inconvenient. But certainly not the 'ultimate sacrifice' as described.

if reports of meaningful intelligible messages from God in heaven to earth are true, why should God have to repeat himself over and over? God tells Moses XYZ, Moses tells the next guy... Perfectly valid means of communication

Sending a dude down a mountain ALONE with handwritten stone tablets asserting laws given by God seems a little suspect Please refer to the above, regarding the 'carbon fiber' scenario

Diocletian is well attested historically

everyone knows he severely persecuted the Church

Bringing up this dude is not even relevant. My POINT is that prior to Constantine, belief in Jesus as a Messiah was no more or less a cult than the belief of other people whom claimed as such. It was the fact that an emperor made it law, is the partial reason we have SO many manuscripts there-after.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I'm not sure if you did not get my observation, or if you are declining to address it? Please let me reiterate.

God is the unified author. Differing accounts from differing humans is in direct conflict of the claim of the Bible being solely God inspired. Again, If God is the one and only author of the Bible, then stating that the accounts overlap (somewhat), is in direct contradiction. Each account would be identical, because the account was provided by the very same entity. They should be exact. When reading the accounts of the resurrection, it should not look as if the details differ, (as they do) They would be perfectly uniform and consistent, especially when provided by a unified perfect being.

It's almost as if we are (instead) expected to rely upon human perspectives and human interpretations or something, like any other book of claims written by humans

Come on man what on Earth are you talking about?

God is a perfect and unified author. Humans are not perfect.

So it takes half a dozen different human. Writers. To record All of the necessary truths of the gospel.

See I witness reports or complementary not contradictory. They provide complimentary sets of facts from different angles on the same set of events.

You yourself have to know. That jury trials. Call NUMEROUS witnesses for that very point in purpose.

The notion that God in heaven might be a single unified author does not require. That one single human wrote down everything

allegedly supposedly. Purportedly. Reportedly. God in Heaven has been communicating with humans on Earth for thousands of years. God spoke to DOZENS. Of Old Testament prophets over centuries and millenia. God at no point relied on one single person to write down everything. But always used multiple contactees to record. Different. Time relevant time, pertinent aspects of the overall overarching message.

If every single biblical author wrote the exact same thing over and over and over again. They would be accused from all sides. Of repeating monotonous canned. Prefabricated. Message.

If eye witnesses ever give the exact same word for word verbatim the same testimony. Everybody everywhere knows that they got together and REHEARSED and nobody believes them ever again.

Logic cannot possibly demand that numerous authors, all write the exact same word for word verbatim reports.

Complementary not contradictory. Is a perfectly plausible and logically acceptable claim

God in heaven? Used. A writing team. Over half dozen different New Testament authors.

It takes a whole team of humans to record the singular message that God communicated to people up on this planet. Purportedly.

Let's put this in HUMAN terms. Napoleon. Had a team. Of NUMEROUS secretaries. To whom He. dictated orders for this and that part. of his grand strategy.to Protect and expand the French Republic. He didn't tell any 2 secretaries the exact same thing. But all the reports are COMPLEMENTARY in fitted together into. His Grand Masters strategy.

In the history of humanity from now on. No one will ever deny that. Napoleon was the singular author of all of the numerous surviving documents simply because no 2 of them use the exact same set of words.

Ditto same same here

 

[Erik Nelson]

Tangentially relevant.:

From Biblical Archaeology Review.

"Fifty-three people from the Hebrew Bible have been confirmed by archaeology. What about the New Testament? See Lawrence Mykytiuk’s extensive evidence, covering King Herod and his royal family to lesser known figures"

 

[cvanwey]

Come on man what on Earth are you talking about?

God is a perfect and unified author. Humans are not perfect.

So it takes half a dozen different human. Writers. To record All of the necessary truths of the gospel.

See I witness reports or complementary not contradictory. They provide complimentary sets of facts from different angles on the same set of events.

You yourself have to know. That jury trials. Call NUMEROUS witnesses for that very point in purpose.

The notion that God in heaven might be a single unified author does not require. That one single human wrote down everything

allegedly supposedly. Purportedly. Reportedly. God in Heaven has been communicating with humans on Earth for thousands of years. God spoke to DOZENS. Of Old Testament prophets over centuries and millenia. God at no point relied on one single person to write down everything. But always used multiple contactees to record. Different. Time relevant time, pertinent aspects of the overall overarching message.

If every single biblical author wrote the exact same thing over and over and over again. They would be accused from all sides. Of repeating monotonous canned. Prefabricated. Message.

If eye witnesses ever give the exact same word for word verbatim the same testimony. Everybody everywhere knows that they got together and REHEARSED and nobody believes them ever again.

Logic cannot possibly demand that numerous authors, all write the exact same word for word verbatim reports.

Complementary not contradictory. Is a perfectly plausible and logically acceptable claim

God in heaven? Used. A writing team. Over half dozen different New Testament authors.

It takes a whole team of humans to record the singular message that God communicated to people up on this planet. Purportedly.

Let's put this in HUMAN terms. Napoleon. Had a team. Of NUMEROUS secretaries. To whom He. dictated orders for this and that part. of his grand strategy.to Protect and expand the French Republic. He didn't tell any 2 secretaries the exact same thing. But all the reports are COMPLEMENTARY in fitted together into. His Grand Masters strategy.

In the history of humanity from now on. No one will ever deny that. Napoleon was the singular author of all of the numerous surviving documents simply because no 2 of them use the exact same set of words.

Ditto same same here

Wrong.

- The Bible claims divine authorship, not human authorship. Other books do not. Hence, other perspectives are warranted, granted, and welcome.

- The four Gospels speak of differing details postmortem/claimed resurrection.

- If separated and sequestered differing 'eyewitnesses' all state the exact same things, where there was no chance of prior collaboration, this may raise a point. Meaning, they may have direct contact from an external agent directing their words. Or better yet, to go one step further, you could sequester two opposing witnesses, whom claim to have receive divine inspiration. And they could be tested, by asking both the same exact questions, and they both answer with identical answers, which could not have been memorized prior hand, because such information would not have been collaborated prior

- The Bible offers nothing forward thinking for the time. Again, if the book was handed down to differing nations post resurrection i.e. (Japan, China, Chile, New Zealand, South America, etc.) And all such nations ALL report of receiving a carbon fiber covered book providing very forward thinking assertions and ideas, unknown/undiscovered at the time, then again, we have cause for investigation. But instead, we have nothing preserved, from one specific region. Truth of this nature is universal, not segregated by region.

- As it stands, all we have are a later collection of writings, later collected in bias by the authoritative theocracy of the age (the church).

Seems a little suspect....

 

[cvanwey]

Tangentially relevant.:

From Biblical Archaeology Review.

"Fifty-three people from the Hebrew Bible have been confirmed by archaeology. What about the New Testament? See Lawrence Mykytiuk’s extensive evidence, covering King Herod and his royal family to lesser known figures"

I'm not sure whom this response is addressed to? However, as stated by others, the Spiderman saga takes place in New York city - (a place archaeologists confirm as real). And I'm certain there exists a man named Peter Parker in New York city. Therefore, Spiderman can spin web from his wrist?

What exactly is your point? Yes, I fully admit the Bible may have some mundane facts accurate. But I'm also sure there exists some stated mundane 'facts' which are most certainly not And if you want to travel down that road, just ask

 

[DogmaHunter]

Are we forgetting that the word "faith" is actually just "trust"?

Are we forgetting that words can have multiple meanings, depending on the context in which they are used?

Just like "theory" in context of science, means something different then when the word is used late at night at the bar after a couple of beers...

So is the word "faith" in context of religion, different in meaning then the word "faith" in something like "i have faith the plane will get me to my destination".

Religious faith is blind.
Trust isn't. Trust is based on an actual trackrecord of succes. Trust is based on evidence.
Religious faith, is blind. It's not based on a trackrecord of any kind. It's based on "just believing" unfalsifiable things, for the sake of believing them.

If you trust in someone, you have faith in them. Faith had no special meaning beyond just simple trust when it was used in the ancient word and only in late antiquity up until now does it hold a special meaning from what I can tell. Belief is to hold a position on a certain topic. It may or may not be based on reason or "faith".

You are mixing two different meanings of the word and pretending they are the same

Faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof or evidence

 

[Erik Nelson]

I'm not sure whom this response is addressed to? However, as stated by others, the Spiderman saga takes place in New York city - (a place archaeologists confirm as real). And I'm certain there exists a man named Peter Parker in New York city. Therefore, Spiderman can spin web from his wrist?

What exactly is your point? Yes, I fully admit the Bible may have some mundane facts accurate. But I'm also sure there exists some stated mundane 'facts' which are most certainly not And if you want to travel down that road, just ask

Apples and oranges.

By your analogy to modern New York. The Gospels mention. Mayor Rudy Giuliani. President Bush. And other major figures. Of historical attestation.

The Joe Schmoes are not typically named in the gospel. Those who are Kings and Procurator's and prefects and priests. And. Rulers and mayors and governors and so on. 53 of those have been confirmed for OLD TESTAMENT time.

And qualitatively similar for New Testament times. Although I don't have access. To that print article behind a paywall

 

[Erik Nelson]

Religious faith is blind.

100% False.

You really oughta let Christians speak for themselves instead of listening to secular authorities speaking on their behalf and putting words in their mouth.

The whole point of the Gospel is as it has always has been for 2000 years from the first. That listeners hear and believe the testimony. Of Jesus's resurrection. Based on trusting. In the character. And Upstanding Nature. Of those who have evangelised them.

Ultimately, originating in the first 12 Apostles. Who claimed to be direct eye witnesses to the resurrection? And the risen Christ after the crucifixion.

There is nothing blind about this. eye witness testimony IS evidence in every court of law on Planet Earth.

Christians believe the eye witness testimony of Matthew, Mark, Luke John Peter James Jude. Paul. And the rest.

That is believing in DIRECT EVIDENCE, admissible in every court of law on Earth. Every Court of law in the solar system. Every known physical. Court of law in the universe.

That is NOT blind faith. That is trusting faith in the character. Credibility. Sanity. Intelligence. Upstanding character. Of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and everyone else.

I guess you could say that's not believing in. Tangible PHYSICAL evidence. But it is believing in direct eyewitness. Testimony. Considered DIRECT EVIDENCE in every known Court of law in the Cosmos.

Moreover, there is tangible direct geological evidence. In the sedimentary layers at the bottom of the Dead Sea. Consistent with an earthquake of 5.5 magnitude near Jerusalem in thirty three AD. At exactly the traditionally accepted date of the crucifixion. That actually is hard physical tangible evidence. Corroborating Christian claims.

 

[Erik Nelson]

The four Gospels speak of differing details postmortem/claimed resurrection.
....

Yes, we've been over this many times already.

Complementary not contradictory.

That's why Christians have kept the 4 separate gospel accounts around. Because each of those, 4 offers complimentary not contradictory. Additional details about events important to the Christian faith.

The Gospels do not claim direct divine authorship in the way you are suggesting. Unlike passages from the Hebrew Old Testament. None of the New Testament writings. Use the stock phrase, "thus Sayeth The Lord"

You're not accurately representing the Christian notion of the inspiration, alleged, of the gospels.

But as for the secret telepathic communication as proof of. Supernatural intervention into human history that you demand. The Gospels already allege exactly such an event.

The Gospels are widely known to allege. That. The Wise men and the Holy Family received secret telepathic warning of. Herods. Plans to massacre all of the babies under 2 years old in Bethlehem. Telepathically warned, They trusted the voices they heard, fled the jurisdiction and survived the massacre.

 

[Starcomet]

Are we forgetting that words can have multiple meanings, depending on the context in which they are used?

Just like "theory" in context of science, means something different then when the word is used late at night at the bar after a couple of beers...

So is the word "faith" in context of religion, different in meaning then the word "faith" in something like "i have faith the plane will get me to my destination".

Religious faith is blind.
Trust isn't. Trust is based on an actual trackrecord of succes. Trust is based on evidence.
Religious faith, is blind. It's not based on a trackrecord of any kind. It's based on "just believing" unfalsifiable things, for the sake of believing them.



You are mixing two different meanings of the word and pretending they are the same

Faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof or evidence

This is only because of our modern view of the word. I do not discount that there are people with blind irrational "faith", but when the Hebrew and Christian testaments speak of "faith" it means trust. I have a book by the Jesus Seminar fellows that mentions it.