Jesus.. Islam.. Trinity

[Tellyontellyon]

Is the Islamic position on Jesus fundamentally different from a non-trinitarian Christian view?

 

[tampasteve]

Is the Islamic position on Jesus fundamentally different from a non-trinitarian Christian view?

It depends on the non-Trinitarian view we are speaking of. Some would be in line with Islamic beliefs, others would not. For example, Modalism is not Trinitarian but would not be in line with Islamic ideas on Jesus.

Other non-Trinitarian systems are very different in many aspects, for example Latter Day Saints and their Godhead theory is very different from both Trinitarian and Islamic.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Is the Islamic position on Jesus fundamentally different from a non-trinitarian Christian view?

the Islamic Position aligns more with unitarianism more than arianism i presume.

 

[tampasteve]

the Islamic Position aligns more with unitarianism more than arianism i presume.

Not really. The Islamic position on God being one and only one would align more with Unitarianism or Oneness, but not the figure of Isa/Jesus in Islam (which is the OP).

 

[dóxatotheó]

Not really. The Islamic position on God being one and only one would align more with Unitarianism or Oneness, but not the figure of Isa/Jesus in Islam (which is the OP).

Oneness believes Jesus is God and that he takes forms lol and I said that they align with Unitarianism than arianism because unitarians and arians see Jesus as a mere man and not God rather Oneness believe God took a form as Jesus in human flesh see the difference?

 

[tampasteve]

Oneness believes Jesus is God and that he takes forms lol and I said that they align with Unitarianism than arianism because unitarians and arians see Jesus as a mere man and not God rather Oneness believe God took a form as Jesus in human flesh see the difference?

I do see the difference, I am very familiar with Arianism and Oneness/Unitarianism. But your understanding of Arianism isn't completely accurate.

Classical Arians believe Jesus to be divine, begotten and created but still divine. Islam does not believe Jesus to be divine, but rather a great Prophet. Islam rejects the divinity and deity of Jesus whereas classical Arianism generally only rejects the deity and not divinity of Jesus.

 

[public hermit]

Oneness believes Jesus is God and that he takes forms lol and I said that they align with Unitarianism than arianism because unitarians and arians see Jesus as a mere man and not God rather Oneness believe God took a form as Jesus in human flesh see the difference?

Point of clarification: Arianism didn't see Jesus as merely human, but something in between God and humanity, i.e. not quite the same essence as God. Think homoiousia, which would be very much like God, but not quite. They accepted that Jesus was the Son of God, just not the same essence as God. That term is used in several Arian creeds, including the Rule of Faith of Ulfilas.

So, an Arian view of Jesus would be fundamentally different than an Islamic view; although, both are monotheistic and non-Trinitarian. Jesus is not God in either one, but not merely human in Arianism.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Classical Arians believe Jesus to be divine, begotten and created but still divine.

He believed Jesus was the wisdom not eternally devine, when he said divine he meant he viewed Jesus as the word but not eternally divine. Which i agree muslims don't view Jesus as the only thing muslims believe is Unitarianism if you aligning to to Christianity.

Oneness/Unitarianism.

Oneness believe God take forms Muslims don't believe that at all
The Trinity and Oneness Doctrine
Unitarians believe God alone which I agree muslims believe BBC - Religions - Unitarianism: God.

Islam does not believe Jesus to be divine, but rather a great Prophet. Islam rejects the divinity and deity of Jesus whereas classical Arianism generally only rejects the deity and not divinity of Jesus.

You right and they view Jesus as the Word but not divine nor a deity.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Islam aligns more with Judaism than Christianity IMO.

 

[Godistruth1]

Is the Islamic position on Jesus fundamentally different from a non-trinitarian Christian view?

We consider him a prophet of God. He did miracles by the will of God as the bible also says

 

[Sketcher]

Is the Islamic position on Jesus fundamentally different from a non-trinitarian Christian view?

"Non-trinitarian Christian" is a contradiction in terms.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

"Non-trinitarian Christian" is a contradiction in terms.

Only to Trinitarians I guess?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

We

We? Are you a Muslim?

 

[dóxatotheó]

We? Are you a Muslim?

It says he is muslim

 

[Godistruth1]

We? Are you a Muslim?

Yes i am

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Yes i am

Hi, I've read that some Sufis say that the oneness of God is really that there is really only one being and that we are all part of that one being. Like Allah is the Sun and the rays of the Sun are individual souls... So it's all one light, although the Sun is the Sun and the Ray is the Ray.
I'm thinking in particular of the writings of Hazrat Inayat Khan ... Have you come across this idea... I don't think it is what most orthodox Muslims believe... but it makes some sense to me.

 

[hedrick]

I think there are some differences. First, non-Trinitarians believe in the crucifixion and resurrection. I'm not in a position to tell Muslims how to interpret the Quran, but I think they commonly don't think he really died and was resurrected.

There are many non-Trinitarian theologies. Oneness Pentecostals accept something very close to orthodox views on Christ. The Trinity was defined at Nicea in opposition to Arians. Arians accepted the divinity of Christ, though not in quite the same sense as orthodox Christians. Pretty much all Christians have believed in the divinity of Christ. Theology developed in an attempt to describe that. But even unorthodox Christians would normally have viewed on Christ that Muslims would not accept.

 

[Godistruth1]

Hi, I've read that some Sufis say that the oneness of God is really that there is really only one being and that we are all part of that one being. Like Allah is the Sun and the rays of the Sun are individual souls... So it's all one light, although the Sun is the Sun and the Ray is the Ray.
I'm thinking in particular of the writings of Hazrat Inayat Khan ... Have you come across this idea... I don't think it is what most orthodox Muslims believe... but it makes some sense to me.

Sufism like any other cults have no base in the scriptures. We are not part of God as Christianity also believes. The difference is we believe Allah is only one and Christians believe there are three deities that make God. The problem I have with that is its not sensible to have 3 gods and count them as one God

 

[tampasteve]

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[setst777]

We consider him a prophet of God. He did miracles by the will of God as the bible also says

Yes, true. But more than that, the Qur'an teaches that Lord Jesus was the only prophet that:

• was born and lived without sin (Qur'an 19:19)
  See also: Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 641; see also Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506
• born of a virgin (Qur'an 3:45-47; Qur'an 19:16-22)
• the word of God made flesh (Qur'an 4:171; Qur'an 3:45)
• is the Messiah (Qur'an 4:171)

Islam does not explain any further the importance or relevance of being sinless, being born of a virgin, being the word made flesh, or being the Messiah. Islam just states these facts about Lord Jesus. The question remains:

Why, or for what purpose, was Lord Jesus so unique from any other prophet?

In contrast, the Christian Scriptures explain all of these doctrines in detail, showing their importance in Prophesy, frequently quoting the Hebrew Scriptures.

Islam denies the Gospel by which we are saved (Qur'an 4:157): That Lord Jesus was crucified, dead and buried, and rose again the third day. This is a core teaching of Christianity that Islam denies.

Islam denies both the Father and the Son. God is not a Father, and their is no Son in Islam.

1 John 2:22 (WEB)
This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

That one, who was born on earth by Mary, pre-existed as the Word of God, as also Islam teaches, and that Word became flesh (John 1:1-14).

The Christian Scriptures teach further on this doctrine.

Being born of a virgin, and by the Spirit of God, Lord Jesus is both fully God and fully man.

While on earth, as the Word of God made flesh, Lord Jesus (the Word of God, being by nature God: John 1:1-2; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 2:9) humbled himself as that perfect man (the 2nd Adam) as our example of faith in God, even onto death on the cross for our sins.

After Jesus' resurrection from death as glorified man and mediator between God and man, He ascended to heaven as a glorified man (the 1st fruit of those who would be raised from the dead), yet God by nature (Philippians 2:6-11), as also prophesied in Isaiah 53, among other Scriptures.

The nature of God

There is only one God, which both Islam and Christianity agree.

The Christian Scriptures reveal that there is only One God the Father, but by God's very nature of being God, He has a Spirit, and also His Word, both eternally existing in His very nature of being God.

The Scriptures teach us that the Spirit has a consciousness and will, just as also The Word - both existing as one in the Nature of God the Father - whom God sends out to accomplish His Will.

Psalm 33:6
6 By the Word of the Lord the heavens were made, their starry host by the Spirit of his mouth.

So, when we refer to Lord Jesus, we recognize Him, along with the Holy Spirit, as that one God, being of the very nature of God, the Father's, being. The Word and Spirit are subordinate to the Father in position, but not by nature or essence. . .

We cannot say that the Father is greater in essence than the Spirit or The Word, or that the Spirit or Word are lesser in essence than God the Father. Why? The reason is, God cannot be greater or lesser than who He is.

Judaism understood God is one, however, in their writings, they do teach that the Angel of the Lord is Jehovah. The Jews taught that there were two powers in Heaven (Two Powers in Heaven). The Jews recognize that God is plural in more than a few instances in their Hebrew Scriptures - not that that there is more than one God, but that there are two divine beings called Jehovah in the Hebrew Scriptures. They understand this to be a mystery that was not fully explained.

Islam denies all of this.