Jesus is the Reason for Calvinism

[fhansen]

Just as others think Calvin and Luther likewise agreed with it.

Yes, I agree that others think they agreed.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, I agree that others think they agreed.

Who doesn't think he agrees with Scripture?

 

[fhansen]

Who doesn't think he agrees with Scripture?

If you're referring to Augustine it depends on which writings; he was quite prolific.

 

[fhansen]

God works in the disposition--the locus of preference, likes--which governs the will.
He gives some to prefer the things of God, and then they freely and willingly give up their rebellion and receive the things of God.

God does not violate man's free will--the ability (power) to choose what one prefers without external force or constraint--he uses it to draw men to himself.

The church teaches that God uses grace to move or orient man's will toward Himself, but never overrides it to do so, because to the greatest extent possible He wants our own willingness to be involved, the choice between good and evil to be ours. And this is because man's justice or righteousness is directly related to his participation or cooperation in moving the will towards rectitude, again, in his own willingness to do right despite the attraction of opposing desires. Without that willingness, he will have no righteousness.

 

[Clare73]

The church teaches that God uses grace to move or orient man's will toward Himself, but never overrides it to do so, because to the greats extent possible
He wants our own willingness to be involved,

And therefore insures that it is.

the choice between good and evil to be ours.

And if one is choosing what one prefers in choosing the good, the choice is most definitely his and no one else's.

And this is because man's justice or righteousness is directly related to his participation or cooperation in moving the will towards rectitude, again, in his own willingness to do right despite the attraction of opposing desires. Without that willingness, he will have no righteousness.

And God insures man's own personal willingness (without external force or constraint, but by preference) to do right.

How good a God is that!

 

[fhansen]

And therefore insures that it is.

No, that would be like saying that He ensured that Adam wouldn't eat of the forbidden because He wanted him not to do so

 

[Ligurian]

Sorry I don't understand how your comment relates to what I was saying about Calvin and Calvinism or Jesus being the reason for the Bible, can you elaborate a bit more?

Paul's gospel seems to be what Calvinism is based upon, not the Gospel of the Kingdom which is what Jesus preaches.

 

[fhansen]

And if one is choosing what one prefers in choosing the good, the choice is most definitely his and no one else's.

And if God does all the preferring such that man has no choice but to choose rightly, or choose wrongly, then justice is thrown out the door all together. The mess we find in this world with the beheadings and the Holocaust and rape and torture and genocide let alone common lies and slander and embezzlement could have all just been avoided because God could've determined our choices for us to begin with, placing a portion in heaven and the rest in hell if that's what He ends up with anyway. Instead, it's a two-way street, for His purposes and according to His wisdom. Again, the very concept of justice is rendered meaningless otherwise.

 

[Ligurian]

And if one is choosing what one prefers in choosing the good, the choice is most definitely his and no one else's.

And God insures man's own personal willingness (without external force or constraint, but by preference) to do right.

Esaias 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good.

This cancels the theory of original sin, because Jesus was able to sin.

 

[Clare73]

No, that would be like saying that He ensured that Adam wouldn't eat of the forbidden because He wanted him not to do so

Except for "the other half of the story."
He does not insure all for everyone.

He does not insure preference for the things of God in all (1 Corinthians 2:14).
And he did not insure Adam's obedience.

 

[fhansen]

Except for "the other half of the story."
He does not insure all for everyone.

He does not insure preference for the things of God in all (1 Corinthians 2:14).
And he did not insure Adam's obedience.

Exactly, He leaves the ultimate choice up to us.

 

[Ligurian]

Mid-Acts dispensationalism misinterprets Galatians 2:7, “I [Paul] had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised.” The mid-Acts dispensationalist makes a distinction between a “gospel of circumcision,” taught by Peter, and a “gospel of uncircumcision,” taught by Paul. In reality, Paul is referring to different audiences, not different gospels. The Jews whom Peter ministered to were saved by grace through faith, just as the Gentiles to whom Paul ministered.
What is mid-Acts dispensationalism? What is the Grace Movement, and is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org

The Greek word for dispensation is also translated stewardship... which is what Peter had when he was sent to feed Jesus' sheep, John 21. And before that, when he was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And after the Resurrection and return when he was sent with the whole Gospel of the Kingdom into the world to find other lost sheep. This message never changed.
Matthew 26:13 If what this woman did in preparation for His burial is the Gospel, then Jesus lived and taught the Gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew 24:14
And so did his Galilean Disciples Matthew 10:7 Matthew 28:18-20

 

[Clare73]

And if God does all the preferring such that man has no choice but to choose rightly, or choose wrongly, then justice is thrown out the door all together. The mess we find in this world with the beheadings and the Holocaust and rape and torture and genocide let alone common lies and slander and embezzlement could have all just been avoided because God could've determined our choices for us to begin with, placing a portion in heaven and the rest in hell if that's what He ends up with anyway. Instead, it's a two-way street, for His purposes and according to His wisdom. Again, the very concept of justice is rendered meaningless otherwise.

Only one Christian concept involves justice--justification through faith in the person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing (position) with God's justice i.e., "not guilty," righteous, sanctified.

Nothing else regarding the believer is about justice in the NT.

There is no basis in the NT for your machinations regarding justice.

 

[Clare73]

Esaias 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, before he knows either to prefer evil or choose the good.

Bad translation.

This cancels the theory of original sin, because Jesus was able to sin.

The supposed ability of Jesus "to sin" has nothing to do with original sin.

 

[Clare73]

Exactly, He leaves the ultimate choice up to us.

Agreed.

 

[Ligurian]

Who doesn't think he agrees with Scripture?

That's not the right question to ask here.

 

[Ligurian]

Galatians 2:7-9 Romans 15:8 Matthew 26:13 say there are two different gospels.

The first scripture I understand to mean Peter was sent to preach the Gospel to the Jews mainly, and Paul to the Gentiles mainly.

What about the other two scriptures? They both say that Jesus and Peter must have been teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Ligurian]

The first scripture I understand to mean Peter was sent to preach the Gospel to the Jews mainly, and Paul to the Gentiles mainly. One Gospel is preached to both groups, not two different gospels. The last verse I don't see as having any relevance to the question.

Here is the same scripture in the NIV.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 2:7-9 - New International Version

7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.​

Verse 8 indicates one God at work in both Peter as apostle to the circumcised and Paul as Apostle to the Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 But, on the contrary, having seen that I have been entrusted with the good news of the uncircumcision, as Peter with that of the circumcision,YLT

And we know the Gospel Peter taught is the same Gospel Jesus teaches.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 10:5 These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Jesus teaches a works Gospel.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

If ye love Me keep My Commandments
=/=
Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[Ligurian]

Bad translation.

The supposed ability of Jesus "to sin" has nothing to do with original sin.

Jesus quoted from the Septuagint. Nothing bad about it.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus quoted from the Septuagint. Nothing bad about it.

The only translation of the time.

Not the best translation of the Hebrew.