Jesus is coming back to......?

[PROPHECYKID]

If ya want to get technical, the first wraths/reward happen to the Judeans first.

The event after the 1000yrs are most likely the non-Judeans, or don't you believe Paul here

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man of the one effecting the evil, of Judean besides first, and of greek;

Romans 2:10 Glory yet and honour/value and peace to every the one working the good, to Judean besides first, and to greek:

Who are those in Luke 21:28?

Reve 9:11 and they are having on them a king, the messenger of the abyss, name to him to-Hebrew, Abaddon/abaddwn <3>, and in the greecian name he is having Destroyer/whole-looser/apo-lluwn <623>. [Exodus 12:23]

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

I don't agree with how you see Revelation nor your 1000 year gap opinion on the rewards for everyone. But to answer your question those in Luke 21: 28 refers to those who saints who will be alive at the coming of Jesus.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't agree with how you see Revelation nor your 1000 year gap opinion on the rewards for everyone. But to answer your question those in Luke 21: 28 refers to those who saints who will be alive at the coming of Jesus.

Where will they be according to Luke 21?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.

 

[Dorothea]

He's coming again in glory to judge the living and the dead.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Where will they be according to Luke 21?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.

This is actually a two fold prophecy. It is the parallel to Matthew 24 and it speaks about the destruction of Jerusalem in the main which happened in 70AD. But it also speaks about the end times. That is one of the things Jesus addresses here since the disciples asked him that. Don't confuse the two applications.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is actually a two fold prophecy. It is the parallel to Matthew 24 and it speaks about the destruction of Jerusalem in the main which happened in 70AD. But it also speaks about the end times. That is one of the things Jesus addresses here since the disciples asked him that. Don't confuse the two applications.

Ok I won't. The Jews are already confused enough.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out Voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).
I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the water of the life gratuitously.

 

[Nilloc]

Hello all
Is Jesus coming back to....

1) gather the righteous into an earthly millenial kingdom?

2) gather the wicked and Render to everyman according to his deeds and take us straight to the fathers house?

Neither. He's coming back to create God's New World.

 

[jeffweeder]

Neither. He's coming back to create God's New World.

How can Gods new world not be in he Fathers house?
Jesus promise to come again involved him going to the Fathers house to prepare a place for us---then coming to recieve us that we may be there with him...Jn 14

Peter looked to this promise, of a new heaven and earth where only righteousness dwells.............................................

Thing is ,these are post millenium events, yet Jesus coming is in view.

He watches while his good seed of the Gospel is intermingled with the tares until harvest time.
He comes and the Angels gather out the gospel rejectors and they get thrown into the furnace, and then we shine in the Fathers house...also a post mill event.



This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed&#8212;for our testimony to you was believe

The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[Tdigaetano]

Can we get anywhere if a question is answered with a question.

Yes.

When ever a question is answered with a question the answer is the same for both. The First question is either 1) asked in order to gain knowledge or 2) as a trap to trick to make the person who has to answer maybe falter or stumble on their words.

Answering the first type question with a question is asking a question that the person who asked the first queston knows or should know the answer.

Ex.
Q1: What color was her dress?
Answer Q2: What color are your socks?

Answering the second type of question takes a little more understanding of the question and the intentions of the person who is asking it.

Ex.
Q1: How do you interpret the following texts?
Answer Q2: How do you interpret Luke 21:23?

So here is Q3: If the Gosple according to Matthew was written for the Jews, The Gosple according to Mark was written for the Romans, The Gosple according to Luke was written for the Greek, Who was the Gosple according to John written for?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Yes.

When ever a question is answered with a question the answer is the same for both. The First question is either 1) asked in order to gain knowledge or 2) as a trap to trick to make the person who has to answer maybe falter or stumble on their words.

Answering the first type question with a question is asking a question that the person who asked the first queston knows or should know the answer.

Ex.
Q1: What color was her dress?
Answer Q2: What color are your socks?

Answering the second type of question takes a little more understanding of the question and the intentions of the person who is asking it.

Ex.
Q1: How do you interpret the following texts?
Answer Q2: How do you interpret Luke 21:23?

So here is Q3: If the Gosple according to Matthew was written for the Jews, The Gosple according to Mark was written for the Romans, The Gosple according to Luke was written for the Greek, Who was the Gosple according to John written for?

Notwithstanding the fact that the gospels were written for those people the content is generally the same. Who the content applies to in Matthew applies to the same people in Mark and Luke and John or else the gospels would have had different interpretations. A passage in Luke speaking about Jerusalem must correlate to its parallel passage in Matthew and should also speak about Jerusalem notwithstanding the fact that there were written by Different people. So although I cannot answer your last question, it does not really matter because it is from the content that we know who the passage is talking about.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So here is Q3: If the Gosple according to Matthew was written for the Jews, The Gosple according to Mark was written for the Romans, The Gosple according to Luke was written for the Greek, Who was the Gosple according to John written for?

John is a rather unique Gospel. In fact, his Gospel is the only one that uses the words "amen, amen" together and that numerous times.
Just click on the word for "amen" in this interlinear and it will show the verses those 2 words are used together. Interesting

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 1:51 And He is saying to him--"Verily verily I am saying to ye: Ye shall be seeing the heaven having opened, and the messengers of the GOD ascending and descending upon the Son of the Man". [Genesis 28:12]

Reve 7:1 uses those 2 words in 1 verse here:

Reve 7:12 saying "Amen the blessedness and the glory and the wisdom and the thanking and the honor and the power and the strenghth to the GOD of us into the ages of the ages, Amen".

281. amen am-ane' of Hebrew origin (543); properly, firm, i.e. (figuratively) trustworthy; adverbially, surely (often as interjection, so be it):--amen, verily

 

[Nilloc]

Hi Jeffweeder,

How can Gods new world not be in he Fathers house?
Jesus promise to come again involved him going to the Fathers house to prepare a place for us---then coming to recieve us that we may be there with him...Jn 14

How you view John 14 depends upon your Millenial view (whats yours btw?) and I take a more Amillenial/Postmillenial perspective. Because of this, I believe John 14 is presently being fulfilled now when we die and we go to be with Jesus until the Resurrection and the New Heavens and New Earth.

But whenever John 14 is to be fulfilled (whether pretrib, posttrib, premil, etc...) it can't be our final destination. Though I have yet to study it myself, apparently, the Greek word monai that is used for dwelling places in verse 2 doesn't mean that's where we go to live forever, but a place we rest for awhile--a hotel--before moving on.

God Bless.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

How you view John 14 depends upon your Millenial view (whats yours btw?) and I take a more Amillenial/Postmillenial perspective. Because of this, I believe John 14 is presently being fulfilled now when we die and we go to be with Jesus until the Resurrection and the New Heavens and New Earth.

But the text itself says that he will take us where he has gone to prepare when he comes again.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I thought Jesus was coming again to receive us and not us going up to heaven to meet him. And if we go to heaven when we die then why a resurrection. If we enter heaven when we die then we our bodies must be changed because flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. But according to scripture this change happens at the last trump.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So the change happens at the last trump and flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. Thats means that no one can enter heaven until their bodies are changes which is at the last trump. And it is those that sleep that are resurrected. Paul never suggested that we will be alive in heaven and returned to earth to be resurrected. That makes no sense.



But whenever John 14 is to be fulfilled (whether pretrib, posttrib, premil, etc...) it can't be our final destination. Though I have yet to study it myself, apparently, the Greek word monai that is used for dwelling places in verse 2 doesn't mean that's where we go to live forever, but a place we rest for awhile--a hotel--before moving on.

God Bless.[/quote]

 

[Nilloc]

But the text itself says that he will take us where he has gone to prepare when he comes again.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I thought Jesus was coming again to receive us and not us going up to heaven to meet him. And if we go to heaven when we die then why a resurrection. If we enter heaven when we die then we our bodies must be changed because flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. But according to scripture this change happens at the last trump.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So the change happens at the last trump and flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. Thats means that no one can enter heaven until their bodies are changes which is at the last trump. And it is those that sleep that are resurrected. Paul never suggested that we will be alive in heaven and returned to earth to be resurrected. That makes no sense.



But whenever John 14 is to be fulfilled (whether pretrib, posttrib, premil, etc...) it can't be our final destination. Though I have yet to study it myself, apparently, the Greek word monai that is used for dwelling places in verse 2 doesn't mean that's where we go to live forever, but a place we rest for awhile--a hotel--before moving on.

God Bless.

Hi PK.
I know you'll disagree with me because you're an SDA and believe in soul sleep (I actually believe in what I call "partial soul sleep").

The problem with futurists and historicists interpertation of Scripture, is that every time the word 'coming' is used it always has to refer to the Second Coming, which is not always the case. For example, in John 14:15-18, Jesus is promising the Apostles the Holy Spirit, and says in verse 18 that "I will come to you." Does this mean then that the Second Coming took place at Pentecost? Another example is Revelation 2:4-5, in which Jesus says that if the Church of Ephesus doesn't repent, He will come and take away their lampstand. Was God really going to let the Second Coming happen then because of one Church's disobendience?

The reason why are bodies are changed at the Second Coming is not to ascend up to Heaven (which is an escapists point of view and is rather Gnostic) to spend another pointless thousand years before the New World. The point of our bodies changing was so that we can live in God's New World, whose own nature shall change just as our bodies will. In Romans 8:21, Paul says that the whole creation will be set free from it's decay and bondage and he connects that with the Redemption of our bodies in verses 23. The Redemption of our bodies and the Redemption of the creation happen at the same time, not 1000 years apart. The Resurrection is always spoken of as being on the Last Day, not a thousand years before the Last Day.

Paul never suggested that we will be alive in heaven and returned to earth to be resurrected. That makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense if you understand what Paul was really saying in 1 Thess. 4:16-17. What he was not saying, is that Jesus will come down raise us up to meet Him and then Jesus will turn around to go back to Heaven. Paul is using the image of an emperor visiting a town. In those days, when the emperor would visit a town, the people would go outside to apanthsin (meet) the emperor to welcome him and then escort him back into the town. Paul uses this image to describe Jesus's Second Coming; it's a royal presence (parousia). When we meet Him in the air, we should therefore assume that we will turn around and escort the King down to God's New World. Verse 14 talks about God bringing with Jesus those who died in Him. This can be taken to mean that either the dead return with Jesus to their bodies to be Resurrected or that the newly Resurrected dead are taken to Heaven. I of course take the first, since I see Paul describing a royal escort at the Second Coming, not an escape from this world.

God Bless

 

[jeffweeder]

How you view John 14 depends upon your Millenial view (whats yours btw?)

Jn 14 shapes my millenial view, as we are promised the ultimate (the Fathers house) when he comes to get us.(if you can think of a better place ,let me know)
Peter saw it that way as he looked to the day of God where the old would vanish and the home of righteousness ( the new hev and earth) would be realised.

Im an Amill , because ;

"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

..............

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

If he says this at his coming, then it is a post millenium event, as he says this at the GWT, when he looks at the book of life and doesnt find their names in it.

 

[Nilloc]

Jn 14 shapes my millenial view, as we are promised the ultimate (the Fathers house) when he comes to get us.(if you can think of a better place ,let me know)

There is a better place, it's God's New Earth; a restored Eden. That was the promise made to Abraham and his offspring (Christ and us in Him) that we would inherit the world (Romans 4:13).

Peter saw it that way as he looked to the day of God where the old would vanish and the home of righteousness ( the new hev and earth) would be realised.

Exactly.

Im an Amill

Are you a Futurist, Historicist, or Preterist, since Amill can be compatible with all three?

 

[JudgeEden]

All one has to do is look at these scriptures. Abandon any preconceived notion you may have, and let the Bible itself do the talking.

-----
Psalm 6:3-5 "My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"

-----

Psalm 115:17 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

-----
Psalm 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

-----
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

-----

Psalm 13:3
"Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"

-----

John 11:11-14
"These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."

This verse is special because Jesus explicitly said that Lazarus was sleeping. When the disciples didn't understand He said Lazarus was dead. What about the others?

-----

Job 14:12
"12So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."

-----

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."


When Jesus died, how did He raise back up? He came out of the tomb. Since Jesus is the first fruits, that means He is an example of HOW we will be resurrected. Also notice at the end of the scripture it says AT HIS COMING. Wait, theres one more...

First, a question. Do you believe King David is in Heaven right now?



Acts 2:29-34
"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"


This scripture is on the day of pentacost, which means Jesus has already risen. According to most Christians, David should be in Heaven. However, Peter clearly says that King David HAS NOT ascended to the Heavens.

There is all the proof you need.

 

[Nilloc]

First, a question. Do you believe King David is in Heaven right now?

Are you asking me? If so, then I would say no, but it's possible.

This scripture is on the day of pentacost, which means Jesus has already risen. According to most Christians, David should be in Heaven. However, Peter clearly says that King David HAS NOT ascended to the Heavens.

Even if I did believe that David was in Heaven, Peter's speech won't contradict it, because, if he did ascend, I believe it happened after Peter said this.

God Bless.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I know you'll disagree with me because you're an SDA and believe in soul sleep (I actually believe in what I call "partial soul sleep").

Its actually because of the scriptures that i will share with you.

The problem with futurists and historicists interpertation of Scripture, is that every time the word 'coming' is used it always has to refer to the Second Coming, which is not always the case. For example, in John 14:15-18, Jesus is promising the Apostles the Holy Spirit, and says in verse 18 that "I will come to you." Does this mean then that the Second Coming took place at Pentecost? Another example is Revelation 2:4-5, in which Jesus says that if the Church of Ephesus doesn't repent, He will come and take away their lampstand. Was God really going to let the Second Coming happen then because of one Church's disobendience?

Of course every time the word "coming" is used, it does not refer to the second coming but it does sometimes. You can tell by the context and the other accompanying bits of information.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is speaking about the second coming because Jesus said that he will come again. He said that he will receive us unto himself. And eventually we will be in the same place that he went to prepare for us. This cannot be at death because Jesus does not come to everyone individually when he dies. His spirit goes back to God and his spirit is the same one that was breathed into Adam at creation.

The reason why are bodies are changed at the Second Coming is not to ascend up to Heaven (which is an escapists point of view and is rather Gnostic) to spend another pointless thousand years before the New World. The point of our bodies changing was so that we can live in God's New World, whose own nature shall change just as our bodies will.

Our bodies shall be changed at the resurrection of the dead. If you view the kingdom of heaven as an earthly kingdom or the New World them i see why you don't agree with me. Below you state that the resurrection occurs at the same time as the creation of the new heaven and new earth. Lets see what the bible says.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(cont next post)

 

[PROPHECYKID]

This first resurrection occurs before the 1000 years. This is a continuation from Revelation 19 when the Lord appears and slays those with the beast and outs the beast and false prophet in the lake of fire. So when the Lord appears in Rev 19, it is speaking about his second coming but specifically how he deals with the wicked. God clearly recreates the Earth and Heaven after the 1000 years are finished. But there was the first resurrection before the 1000 years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

After the 1000 years the New Heaven and Earth are created. So the first resurrection which occurs at his second coming is for who?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, (The Church)I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (Second Death has no power)

In Romans 8:21, Paul says that the whole creation will be set free from it's decay and bondage and he connects that with the Redemption of our bodies in verses 23. The Redemption of our bodies and the Redemption of the creation happen at the same time, not 1000 years apart. The Resurrection is always spoken of as being on the Last Day, not a thousand years before the Last Day.

The Text in Romans does not help your argument.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I don't think you interpreted this text properly.

The last day is indeed when the dead in Christ shall be resurrected. You also have to take note that Jesus comes for his saints but judgement is executed by the ancient of Days. God the father is the one who judges. These 2 are 1000 years apart. Jesus comes again to fulfill his promise in John 14 and to resurrect his sleeping saints and take them back to the place that he has prepared for them. Jesus did not say he will come again and meet us here to stay. He says he will receive us unto himself. If he was coming to meet us then why do we have to meet him in the air.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

It makes perfect sense if you understand what Paul was really saying in 1 Thess. 4:16-17. What he was not saying, is that Jesus will come down raise us up to meet Him and then Jesus will turn around to go back to Heaven. Paul is using the image of an emperor visiting a town. In those days, when the emperor would visit a town, the people would go outside to apanthsin (meet) the emperor to welcome him and then escort him back into the town. Paul uses this image to describe Jesus's Second Coming; it's a royal presence (parousia). When we meet Him in the air, we should therefore assume that we will turn around and escort the King down to God's New World.

But Jesus comes before the 1000 years. He is the one who comes in Revelation 19 before the millennium starts. There is the first resurrection before the millennium starts. The saints are in that resurrection. The New World is made after the millennium is finished. That is when the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. About your view on how Paul was describing it you could be right except for the fact that other places where the resurrection is spoken of suggest that our citizenship is not of this earth.

Verse 14 talks about God bringing with Jesus those who died in Him. This can be taken to mean that either the dead return with Jesus to their bodies to be Resurrected or that the newly Resurrected dead are taken to Heaven. I of course take the first, since I see Paul describing a royal escort at the Second Coming, not an escape from this world.

Well i take the second because of the verses that follow and also because of John 14: 1 - 3.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus (dead in Christ) will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Asleep on this earth the text clearly suggest. If they were in heaven why even say that.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And here is my point. If we have already received changed bodies when we die then why the point of the resurrection to get the changed bodies again. And if you say that at death we go to heaven without being changed then that is false because incorruptible things cannot enter heaven and be in the presence of God. So are we changed at death or at the resurrection?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And here is a thought. The place that Jesus is going to prepare for us must have been in existence when he said that. The New World is not in existence and will not be until the millennium is over. So the place that he is preparing for is must be heaven where his father dwells and not the New World yet to be created.