Jesus Is Allah ?

[WayMan]

OYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Jesus is God..is He not?

Ill answer it Yes..

oy i give up..think what u want!..

Jesus was a man, flesh, bone and blood whereas god is an idea from the minds of men of doubtfull sanity.

 

[peaceful soul]

The Trinity is a concept not a fact? hmm..According to..???

Last time i checked the Church has always held that the trinity is a fact and has strong biblical evidence

It is a concept reasoned by man. Nowhere it is specifically mentioned in Bible. So, in that context, it is not a fact. All we really know is that there are 3 components/entities involved and only 1 God. We really don't know their union. All we can do is take each verse of referenced scripture and draw conclusions as to what its meaning is. Whether God is 3 in one or one in 3, does not change His message and plan for us.

There is only one God.

 

[dlamberth]

Last time i checked the Church has always held that the trinity is a fact and has strong biblical evidence

Actually, the Church argued over this point for a good 300 years. The truth is, the church has not always held that the trinity is a fact. The problem is that the Bible never once says "trinity" to descripe the Godhead.


..

 

[WayMan]

Peacefull soul

It is a concept reasoned by man. Nowhere it is specifically mentioned in Bible. So, in that context, it is not a fact. All we really know is that there are 3 components/entities involved and only 1 God. We really don't know their union. All we can do is take each verse of referenced scripture and draw conclusions as to what its meaning is. Whether God is 3 in one or one in 3, does not change His message and plan for us.

There is only one God.

According to the bible, when Jesus was on the cross...

....Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

If Jesus and god are supposed to be the same thing, then who was Jesus speaking to ?

 

[Carico]

Jesus was both man and God and never claimed to be anything else. He had more of the spirit of God in Him than did any man which was why He could perform so many miracles and die for everyone, even the people who hate Him for it. Therefore, the trinity ALWAYS existed because Jesus was conceived by a human and the Holy Spirit. He always claimed there was one greater than Him.

 

[peaceful soul]

Spiritually, we could all be "one," but that's not quite what the Tirinity implies...

You are missing the point. It is the oneness. We will never be on the same spiritual level as God, our Creator.

Yes it does bend logic when you wear a pair of intellectual goggles, as most nonChristians do and even some Christians do. Just to enlighten you, the Bible does require you to think a little bit. It is not like reading a Sports Illustrated.

In this I agree wholeheartedly: The Bible does not require thinking. In fact, it tends to discourage it. Nowhere in the Bible is intelligence praised as a virtue.

I was using the term 'little' in a general sense. The Bible requires just as much thinking as it does spiritual intervention. That is why it can't be approached in the same way as other books. It is to be read with the help of God's own intellect, knowledge, and spirit given to us through the Holy spirit. The understanding of the scriptures can be accomplished, wherein, God's own understanding becomes imputed to us. This is how the truth reaches us - not by our abilities alone, and not by what we feel and see. The truth has dimensions that the normal man will not witness unless he is in the spirit of God.

This is where the faith comes in. You can't read and just say, "I don't like this because it doesn't make sense to me." or the opposite: "I like this and I am going to follow it." Without the Holy Spirit, neither of the 2 approaches have any meaning or value to God, and therefore, gain you nothing but a good feeling, perhaps. Faith is: Action based upon a Belief and is based upon Confidence in that what God has declared, He will do. It will be done according to His word, time, and purpose.

We can trust that He will honor His word and will not forsake us. Faith unlocks the door to our life and relationship with God. There are some occasions where our own understanding is on par with what God means without making everything seem spiritual. God does not intend for every thing we do to be accredited to some super spiritual entanglement. That is where our own intellect, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding plays a huge role. I hopefully helped you to understand that there are situations for intellect and others for spiritual intervention.

 

[peaceful soul]

In order to understand the Bible, one has to be spiritually inclined. Your inclination can only come with a desire to understand it - not merely finding verses to support something you like or dislike.

I've known some self-professed "Christians" who could stand to hear this advice.

Go tell them.

Whether you see it or not, these very seemingly contradicory verses are actually sorting people out every minute of the day. Most of it is because they expect a god that they will be able to comprehend, so that they can ultimately control. He is now in a box that they can put the lid on any time they need to.

Control God? A bit of a slippery slope, don't you think?
The alternative is blind, unquestioning obedience: Totally unacceptable.

Yes, control God. I don't know how you derived your statement based upon what I said. We limit Him by our expectations of Him and our view of Him. I mean that God becomes something tangible or easily defined in a way that gives man the idea that he can determine how He works and what He will do. We then think we have some power to predict Him: therefore, He fits in our box. That kind of thinking gives us a false sense of authority. It is part of our sinful nature to think like that. Boy, that tree of knowledge cost us a lot! I hope you understand now.

The alternative is not to box Him in, and you will not have that problem. No slippery slope.

 

[Brain Damage]

Peacefull soul




According to the bible, when Jesus was on the cross...

....Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

If Jesus and god are supposed to be the same thing, then who was Jesus speaking to ?

I think this might explain a little.

John 12:27 - "Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came from heaven, saying, "I have both glorified it and will glorify it again." Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to Him." Jesus answered and said, "This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake.


Jesus does not deny that an angel spoke , but says "This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake".

I'm sure that if Jesus were not God then God could have spoken for himself.

Jesus "was" God and could not be in two places at the same time , at least not while he was a human being.

 

[peaceful soul]

Truthfully, God does not owe us any explanation for who he is and for what He does, as long as it does not violate His spoken and written words to us. In God's realm, the Aristotelian logic goes out of the window. Yes, 2 or more things can simultaneoulsly exist as the same thing and also, not be the same thing at the same time. Translated: entity A can be entity B and not entity B all at the same time.

"He's God; We're not. He commands; we are to obey. So shut your mouth and do as you're told."

People tend to reject this rationale as being the foulest form of tyranny.

Where did you get this from? My quote has nothing to do with that! The only thing God owes us is His faithfulness to His word, whether spoken or written or by some other means. Consider anything else He gives us as a bonus.

How can you have tyranny when there is a book of instructions (Bible) to help us to understand what to do? It would be blind if there was no Bible.

If you really want to understand the concept of God's authority, read OT where His commands were law driven and then compare it to NT where His commands are spirit driven. You can not get away from obedience if you follow God. He created you and has dominion over you, whether you believe in Him or not. Man's sinful nature tells Him that I don't have to be accountable to my Master. That is what Satan uses to defeat us. He uses that fact to drive us away from God's commands, and therefore, fellowship with God.

They too suffer from an overdose of Aristotelian logic.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

It is, once you realize the Holy Spirit teaches you things that do not conform to the worldly or natural laws. In God's realm, the concept of time and the law of gravity are just a subset of things of which we can not comprehend or explain. The Holy Spirit teaches us the things that we need to know. They definitely don't always coincide with what we are taught here on earth in the classrooms or in the streets.

Well, Aristotle was a favored philosopher of the Islamic world in the middle ages. In fact most of what we have of Aristotle was preserved by the Arabs and resoted to Europe during the Renaissance.

Philosophy, intellect, knowledge, and wisdom of man has its place, but is not to be touted above that which God imputes to us through Holy Spirit. That is the Christian aproach to this life. The truths of Christ are all not evident by our senses. However, they are evident through understanding the spiritual laws of God.

I think Nasir can clear it up better than either of us...

Perhaps

 

[WayMan]

Peacefull soul

"Philosophy, intellect, knowledge, and wisdom of man has its place, but is not to be touted above that which God imputes to us through Holy Spirit. That is the Christian aproach to this life"

That about sums up christianity in a nutshell. When it comes to god forget about anything that has true value. This religion, just like Islam and the rest is nothing more than a sham.

 

[cleopa_of_emmaus]

Wholly present with those below was the Uncircumscribed Word, yet in no was absent from those above; for this was a divine condescension and not a mere change of place.


~cleopa

 

[davidlevin]

The muslims contradict themselves when they consider Jesus a holy man and great prophet because He said He was the son of God. He therefore must either be delusional or He's right. If He's delusional, how can He be holy? If He's right, then the Muslims aren't really worshipping God because Jesus says He's the only way to God. That is a gross contradiction in the Koran which makes their God look foolish.

Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God, you ingrate. Do some more research before you decide to throw out false information you cretin.

 

[Brain Damage]

Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God, you ingrate. Do some more research before you decide to throw out false information you cretin.

David! David! David! ..... .....