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Jesus died for me..... so what?

LuvAslan

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The thing that makes Jesus' crusifiction a big deal is that he never deserved it. Death is the punishment for sin. Jesus never sinned, thus, he didn't deserve it. He beat Satan on that day. He beat death. No one wants to die, not even Jesus. But He did as he was told to do and YOU get to be blessed with the result. You can now ask God for forgivness and get it. Jesus made it possible for every one who trusts in Him to have eternal life in Heaven. Bless you for asking. God wants you to get to know Him.
 
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Gentle

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maybe it meant something else all together and when you considered he died already in the desert(to his body, the flesh He was now free of...he did the Buddha. so the end death had to be symbolic like He is saying 'this is how little you should care for the flesh or body" over spiritual matters...that even nailed to a cross was nothing whatsoever for one with faith. And the degraded state, the highest made himself the lowest and servant to abuse and death to show us how to love each other
peace
 
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revmalone

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You need more information there are lots of gaps that could be filled in and give a more solid answer for your self.There are a few things to understand to know the answer to that kind of question. I can shed some light on the answer, but be open minded since all this is new for you.


There use to be 3 sections to the underworld area. The first we call hell which is call hades.

The second is the bottomless pit found in (Revelation 9:2) The bottomless pit is were the worst and most evil angels that followed satan out of heaven are Chained until the Great Judgement Day (Jude 1:6)

The third was paradise, this was the temporary place(heaven) that the rightious souls who had faith in God and those who were under that years blood scarifice went to after there life on earth was done, this place was taking away when Jesus arose from the dead and took them all to heaven were they are to this day. Ephesians 4:8-10. Those who were taken to heaven with Christ are all the old testament people in the paradise.

So lets review, the 3 places of the underworld, paradise-gone now, the bottomless pit-those angels that to wicked to be free, Hell(hades) is the place that the souls of the lost go until the final day of Judgement. Now that you understand what was down there, it will help you see what Hell is, and how God is clear of the charges you made against him and his Holy Name.

Hell (hades) is not the place the lost is judged that place would be known as Gehenna

Does a guy that breaks the Law go straight to prison right after being arrested, NO this would be a unjust action and this is not how it works he go first to a holding cell at the local jail to await all charges to be file against him. Just like in hell(hades), all are equal, no crime greater then another until Judgement day, all await there day in court. This is what Hell is being used for.
Gods mercy is in this fact, the only sin God holds all mankind accountable for right now is rejecting the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and that's it. He see's every sin we do as being done thru ignorance this allows him to have complete forgivness on every man, women, boy and girl.

No matter what sins you ever did God knows you done them not understanding that they were wrong.

Hell is not the final place that the lost soul will stay, it is were the soul is held after the body dies because the body goes back to the dust. Everyone who dies lost will receives the same torments as all in this temporary place, there is not different degrees personal punishment in hell( hades) right now because it is just the Holding place not the final place.

There is a Day God has set aside to judge every evil work and to pass down the exact required payment that must be paid. This is were God will bring justice to each and every crime and sin ever commited.

When a person dies lost there soul will stay in the holding cell called Hell, it's only until Gods final day of Judgement. At this Judgement every evil, every secret, every deed, every thought, every cuss word, is added to each account. The Bible calls this Judgement, the Great White Throne judgement. When the lost appear at this judgement they will receive there bodies but this time there bodies that aremade just to be able to handle the terrible judgement that will be given.

Christians will have a glorified body to face there judgement, but they receive rewards at there judgement not punishment. The lost will have a soul and body to be cast in alive taking every price and tourment received in judgement into the Lake of Fire.
Just think of how hot it could be if a person get's 1 degree of fire per offence. How many cuss words have you said, then add up the dirty thought, the jokes, all the people that have been affected by every bad thing you did to them, what about for every lie told, It makes me tremble to think of the received punishments.

Here is the Judgement Day recorded in Scripture
Revelation 20:11-15

Everything we do is recorded into our minds, your eyes are recording lens God records your whole life from, some who have died explain there whole life flashed before there eyes, your whole life is recorded inside your mind.Man has created great machines some can even trace every phone conversation, great records are stored on a small computer and at the push of a button, entire history of a person can be traced.

Each person as they walk through this life they are recording there own actions for a witness on that day of judgement. If a person denies they did a act that there accused of God will show it to you, he can show the exact second you did it live right before your own eyes and there will be no excuse for you to use, every small thing you have done, on that day it will be shown to all the hosts of heaven and many are going to add on to there punishment that day, because of all the lies they are going to tell him, he will be just because there will not be one thing left in the universe unpunished after this great judgement day.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:36-37;" I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned".
After this great judgement day trial is over, all there will be cast into the Eternal prison known as The Lake of Fire.(Revelation 20:15)

Who is the Judge on that day? It will be none other then Jesus Christ Himself.
John 5:22;" For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

Jesus made the way to be saved and because he is the salvation the only way, God commited all judgement to him. He knows all who are his and he knows all who are not his. There will be no mistakes on the Day he judges.
John 10:24-30
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Being saved is free, all we have to do is ask to be forgiven, no works to be done to get it, it's all paid for and it is Gods free gift. How could God make it anymore simple for us to receive. If anyone searched all the rest of the worlds religions they will have to do this work or that work to go into there so called heaven, but in every other religion there is no assurance, no promises that you will go this way, the truth is you don't, without Jesus you go to the holding cell. That is why Jesus told us nobody can come to heaven except by him.

If I owned a house and I told everybody who wants to enter it they must come thru the front door only or be arrested . Suppose then people said he's not serious and started trying to come through my roof or window, would I be wrong to called the law, no.
Is it my fault they went to jail, NO! Why not? I tried to help let them in, I warned them theres one way in. I made the way to get in invitation, and it wouldn't cost them one thing , but by choosing there own way to get in , they lost it all, but it all came down to there choice on how to get in. This is the same way God has done for all of man kind, he made salvation to be free and every person gets it the same way, asking Jesus.He has told us to come in thru the door and the only door is Jesus, read it.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Is God just in what he is doing, yes when we see the big picture there is nothing left for him to do, it's up to us to decide to get in, his way or pay our own way, which will you choose.

John 14:6 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What was so special about the Death of Jesus really?

Everyone who has ever been born since Adam and Eve's sin in the garden, they have been born without a choice about it, we don't decide when we were born, nor anything about it, it was made by our parents.All because of that first sin of the parents of Human race we are all born into the sinline and death. We are without the conscience knowledge we have been born a sinner. So all sins a man commits is done in ignorance,or understanding until he meet's up with the knowledge of his own sinfulness, and this is were in the old testament the Laws and the Sacrifices came into play.
In the Scriptures this is revealed in the Statement Romans chapter 7 about the purpose of the Law of Moses we call the 10 Commandments.
Also Paul explains what the real purpose of the law was to be for us,
Romans 7: 7-14;"
7. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11.For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12.Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14. For we know that the law is spiritual:
The Scriptures tell us in Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I notice at the beginning you have quoted the sacrifices from the old testament these are beautiful pictures that tell about the different character qualities of the work of the Cross, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, it was pictures locked up until the New Testament time's.
God revealed thru these Offerings the hiden qualities that were in Christ Jesus that only he had known from the beginning about His own Son,What is concealed in the Old Testament is Revealed to us now in the New Testament, but I'll try to reveal some of thoses meaning to help you both get Started on the right footing to see the rest of Christ Jesus in them.
The Offerings may be divided up into various ways. First there are four of the Offerings have to do with the Shedding of Blood-The burnt Offering, The Peace Offering, The Sin Offering and The Tresspass Offering, all these were done at the same place.
As you get into the first 7 chapters of Leviticus we can see things from divin standpoint revealed to us in the New Testament Scriptures, it is, God gives that which meant the most to him first
. So I begin with the burt Offering, this is the highest type of the work of the Cross, that we have in the mosaic economy,
This is revealed in the first few verses of Chapter of Leviticus When The Lord called unto Moses to speak to the children of Israel when moses instructed them they would be personally involved in this Offering, this offering was a freewill offering, it also shows more of the Work that the Cross stood for, this is a very rich book when it come to showing the hidden things.
1. And the Lord called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2. Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the Lord, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
3. If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord.
4. And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
5. And he shall kill the bullock before the Lord:
All of this Sacrifice is , the Shadow of the Cross of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. This was his Call when he Came, "If any Man" The next is it has to be a Male without Blemish, Jesus Christ is the Only one who has ever been born of a Virgin, so his blood was Spotless and he was perfect in every way anyone look at him even unto this Day he is without Fault or sin.
We have in John 3:16 God So Loved the World that He Gave. He gave the Sacrifice of his Son as you know. The next thing is to notice the Offerer had to place there hand on Top of the burnt Offering, this is a Picture of the Transfer of the Offerer sin's on to the burnt Sacrifice, to make atonement for his sin's, and the payment for those sins was death.
This was who the Sacrifices were telling about, he was to be that Sweet Savor Sacrifice that would bring all Sacrifices into one Great Sacrifice for all Time. This is Jesus Christ, The Son of God.Ephesians 5:1-2Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
All 4 of the Blood Sacrifices was a Complete hidden Picture and Knowledge about Jesus the Messiah. When He Shed that Pure Blood and God Placed the Sin's of all Time on him and he Carried them into the Grave then to Rise from the Grave and this Defeated the curse from the Garden and made Faith the Way to God and Not Works, all because of us.If you need deeper explaining I will, but there all about Our Lord Jesus.
Peace in Jesus Christ to all
Rev Malone
 
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FallingWaters

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Don't be so dramatic; worse things happen to people all the time.
I'm not sure if you intend to be blatantly shocking with your lack of fear of God, or if you are just doing it accidentally. I almost fear conversing with you because the more you say, the more you condemn yourself before God.

These words of Jesus are true; you will stand before God one day to be judged and give an account of your life:

Matthew 12:36-37- ""But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”"

There is only one way to be spared from the coming wrath of God, and that is by confessing to Him that you are a sinner in need of His mercy and forgiveness, and by trusting Jesus Christ to pay your sin-debt for you, since you are not capable of paying it yourself.
 
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Sephania

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I think part of the problem here is considering the crucifixion on it's own as the central issue, when it only makes sense within the context of whole incarnation-crucifixion-resurrection narative.

Christ's self-sacrifice on it's own would be worthless. It's value only exists when it comes at the end of the incarnation - God placing aside his glory to come and live with us and experiencing all the difficulties that entails for 30 odd years. And it's only effective because it's followed by the resurrection, by which death is defeated for everyone.

If you just look at Jesus as a man who allowed himself to be crucified then you are missing most of the picture, so you can't see the difference between that and (say) a bishop Polycarp.

Finally, it should also be noted that we don't really know how well Jesus understood what would happen to him. Obviously from his comments he had some idea, but he had also laid aside his omniscence so we don't really know how clearly he understood it before it happened. I would suggest that he didn't much idea of what would happen. No more so, anyway, than say bishop Polycarp who knew that his risen Christ would raise him after his martyrdom.
I would have to disagree with you there ebia, in that he knew exactly what would happen to him, I will highlight the pertinent parts:


14 Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.
17 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18 He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.'" 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover. 20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me." 22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." 30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
31 Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." 33 Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will." 34 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." 35 But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.
36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." 40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41 "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." 42 He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done." 43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. 45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!" 47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50 Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

How sad his last meal on earth he knew who would bestray him, yet he treated him no differently. He knew who would betray him, and when and even when he would come with the soldiers to arrest him.

Here is also a text proof of him knowing what was to come.In Luke we get a little more insight into his last prayer time with the Father before the crucifixtion:

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." 41 He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

It has forensically been proven that only under the most extreme stressful circumstances can this be done. It was not being afraid of the beatings to come, nor the nailing of the spikes in his flesh, but of the fear of the unknown, something he was not prepared for, only strengthened for, and that was experiencing the full weight of the sins of the people of the world for all time.


I think the only reason we find this in Lukes gospel alone is because he was a physician and as such this would have been of interest to him.
From these factors, it is evident that even before Jesus endured the torture of the cross, He suffered far beyond what most of us will ever suffer. His penetrating awareness of the heinous nature of sin, its destructive and deadly effects, the sorrow and heartache that it inflicts, and the extreme measure necessary to deal with it, make the passion of Christ beyond all comprehension.
Read about thromboi haimatos or hematidrosis here
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It seems to me that Christians place a very high priority on the fact that Jesus, Son of God died on the cross to save mankind from sin.
It also seems that this is even more important because he is the son of God.
And even more so that he knew that he was sent to Earth to do exactly this.
According to the Bible, Jesus only came to save the Jews and Israel, not the rest of us. :eek:
Hosea 13:14 From the hand of Sheol I do Ransom them, From death I Redeem Them [Israel/Judah], Where [is] thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol? Repentance is hid from Mine eyes.
Luke 1:66 and all who heard did lay them up in their hearts, saying, `What then shall this child be?' and the hand of the Lord was with him. 67 And Zacharias his father was filled with the Holy Spirit, and did prophesy, saying, 68 `Blessed [is]the Lord/Y@hovah, the God ofIsrael, Because He did look upon, And wrought redemption for His people, 69 And did RAISE an horn of salvation to Us, In the house of David His servant, 70 As He spake by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Revelation 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slaughtered, and didst Redeem/ hgorasaV <59> Us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
 
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prophecystudent

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I am not trying to be flip here. I don't really think that God, and His scriptures are all that confusing. Nor are the details of Christ's birth, death and resurrection.

God made man in His image. He placed them in the perfect environment in the Garden. He gave the a one question test.

They failed it when they disobeyed. God told them beforehand that if they ate of that tree they would die. They ate anyway.

Being a just and righteous God, He had to follow through with His promise.

He knew before He created Adam and Eve that they would fail. That is why He put a plan in place to reconcile mankind to Himself before He created the world. That plan was the birth, death and resurrection of His Son, Christ.

God said, in the Old Testament, that the only way to be cleansed of sin was through the blood of a sacrifice. In the case of sin a "spotless lamb".

In the OT the blood of the lamb only covered the sins that had been committed. New sacrifices were required continuously because mankind continued to sin on a daily basis.

In God's wisdom, and love for mankind, He provided the perfect lamb (Christ) and decreed that the blood of Christ would wash away the sins of the world.

He placed only one requirement on mankind. (Kind of like that original test in the garden). That requirement being that we accept Christ's sacrifice on our behalf by recognizing it and His love for us.

There is very little symbolism involved in the salvation story. God, as the Creator, has every right to wipe us out of existence at any time because of our continuing sins. He chose not to do that out of His love for mankind.

Since it was His Son that willingly came to earth to bear the pain, humiliation, suffering, and death to pay the price (His Blood) for our sins, it seems only reasonable that He (God) should have the latitude to determine how the price of our sins is paid. Kind of long sentence.

In any case, the bible also says that we are to accept the Gift as a matter of faith. Without faith we are lost because without that faith we cannot believe in Christ and His sacrifice.

The salvation story is really very simple, all it takes is understanding the background and the faith to believe it.

There is no "hard evidence" that will prove it in a court of law. We take it as an article of faith, and that is what saves us.

The "so what" part of your question seems to me to be simple.

You believe and accept His sacrifice for you as a matter of faith or you do not. If you do, then you will spend eternity with Christ at which point you can ask Him, face to face.

If you don't accept it, then you will spend eternity elsewhere.

Fred
 
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ERice2nd

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According to the Bible, Jesus only came to save the Jews and Israel, not the rest of us. :eek:Luke 1:66 and all who heard did lay them up in their hearts, saying, `What then shall this child be?' and the hand of the Lord was with him. 67 And Zacharias his father was filled with the Holy Spirit, and did prophesy, saying, 68 `Blessed [is]the Lord/Y@hovah, the God ofIsrael, Because He did look upon, And wrought redemption for His people, 69 And did RAISE an horn of salvation to Us, In the house of David His servant, 70 As He spake by the mouth of His holy prophets,

Read your Bible again LittleLamb, specificlly the book of Acts where peter is told to go to the house of a roman and tell him the good news.

"Do not call anything impure that God has made clean" Acts 10:15


That centurian was a gentile
 
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Sojourner<><

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Firstly I'd like to apologise for the title of this thread if it offends anyone by the apparant flippancy, but if you read on you'll see I have a genuine question.......

It seems to me that Christians place a very high priority on the fact that Jesus, Son of God died on the cross to save mankind from sin.
It also seems that this is even more important because he is the son of God.
And even more so that he knew that he was sent to Earth to do exactly this.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling martydom, but I can't see why this is seen to be so important.

If the story of the Gospels is true, then Jesus knew that he was going to be killed - in order to save everyone else in the world (if they choose to believe in him).
He also knew that there is life after death, because he is the son of God (and he is God, and the Holy Spirit?!?!?? - still not sure about the holy trinity thing, but thats another story).
And he also knew that he was going to be raised from the dead in 3 days.

I appreciate he knew that he was going to be put through excruciating pain and complete humilation, and it must have been a terrible ordeal (sorry about the flippancy again but couldn't think of a better way to put it). But still, he knew, beyond a doubt that what he was doing would save mankind and that he would be in heaven with his father within weeks.

Compare that to other martyrs and it doesn't seem such a big deal.

Other Martyrs, be they Christian, Muslim, Buddists or Atheists have no such absolute knowledge in what comes next.

I remember hearing an example a few years back and I'm probably going to be wrong about some of the details but the point is still valid....

I think it was a prisoner of war camp in Japan during WWII and the Japanese lined all the prisoners up. Some food had gone missing and they were determined to find the culprit. The commandant (or whatever the boss was called, lets call him the commandant cos it sounds kind of prisoner of war-y) threatened to kill or severely punish (not sure?) everyone unless the thief owned up. No one moved. The commandant once again demanded that the culprit step forward. Again no one moved. A third and final warning was given and a man stepped forward, knowing that the punishment wouyd be death. And indeed, he was shot.
It turned out that no food had been stolen, it had simply been a mis count, but this man gave his life to save others, not knowing what would come next. It was not to save the human race. He didn't have the promise of eternal life on the right hand of God. He wasn't the messiah. He was just a good man. Yet I don't even know his name. Why is his act of Martydom less important when it was, in my opinion a far braver and noble thing to do.

I'm hoping that you can kind of see why I don't really understand why the Easter story is such a cornerstone of the Christian faith from this example.

Please don't think I'm being obtuse or trying to pick fights, I really do want to have what you people have got and to be able to take a leap of faith but this is 1 of many doubts/questions that I have.

Apologies as well for the length (if anyone is still reading...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
The importance of Jesus death on the cross is actually demonstrated by your second example. Let me explain. In the internment camp, the punishment of many was laid upon one man. This is what Jesus did. It's not so much the fact that He was a martyr, but that it was our punishment that killed Him instead of us.
 
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FallingWaters

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wow, you seem to be argueing amongst yourselves now. I'm looking to be saved and this thread has become a bit too aggressive for me. i'll look elsehere for answers thanks.
The first step to being saved is by realizing that you are a sinner. God has to open your eyes to that reality. But you can put yourself in the place of seeing, if you expose yourself to what God expects of you.

I'm sure you've heard of the 10 commandments. (Exodus 20) Those are okay for starters, but Jesus raised the bar with His Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5 - 6 - 7)

Pray that God would have mercy on you and make Himself real to you. The Bible says,
Jeremiah 29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."

I pray that the Lord would open the eyes of your understanding, that He would show you your sin and that you would humble yourself before the Lord God Almighty, and trust your heart to Him.
 
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Optimax

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Firstly I'd like to apologise for the title of this thread if it offends anyone by the apparant flippancy, but if you read on you'll see I have a genuine question.......

It seems to me that Christians place a very high priority on the fact that Jesus, Son of God died on the cross to save mankind from sin.
It also seems that this is even more important because he is the son of God.
And even more so that he knew that he was sent to Earth to do exactly this.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling martydom, but I can't see why this is seen to be so important.

If the story of the Gospels is true, then Jesus knew that he was going to be killed - in order to save everyone else in the world (if they choose to believe in him).
He also knew that there is life after death, because he is the son of God (and he is God, and the Holy Spirit?!?!?? - still not sure about the holy trinity thing, but thats another story).
And he also knew that he was going to be raised from the dead in 3 days.

I appreciate he knew that he was going to be put through excruciating pain and complete humilation, and it must have been a terrible ordeal (sorry about the flippancy again but couldn't think of a better way to put it). But still, he knew, beyond a doubt that what he was doing would save mankind and that he would be in heaven with his father within weeks.

Compare that to other martyrs and it doesn't seem such a big deal.

Other Martyrs, be they Christian, Muslim, Buddists or Atheists have no such absolute knowledge in what comes next.

I remember hearing an example a few years back and I'm probably going to be wrong about some of the details but the point is still valid....

I think it was a prisoner of war camp in Japan during WWII and the Japanese lined all the prisoners up. Some food had gone missing and they were determined to find the culprit. The commandant (or whatever the boss was called, lets call him the commandant cos it sounds kind of prisoner of war-y) threatened to kill or severely punish (not sure?) everyone unless the thief owned up. No one moved. The commandant once again demanded that the culprit step forward. Again no one moved. A third and final warning was given and a man stepped forward, knowing that the punishment wouyd be death. And indeed, he was shot.
It turned out that no food had been stolen, it had simply been a mis count, but this man gave his life to save others, not knowing what would come next. It was not to save the human race. He didn't have the promise of eternal life on the right hand of God. He wasn't the messiah. He was just a good man. Yet I don't even know his name. Why is his act of Martydom less important when it was, in my opinion a far braver and noble thing to do.

I'm hoping that you can kind of see why I don't really understand why the Easter story is such a cornerstone of the Christian faith from this example.

Please don't think I'm being obtuse or trying to pick fights, I really do want to have what you people have got and to be able to take a leap of faith but this is 1 of many doubts/questions that I have.

Apologies as well for the length (if anyone is still reading...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

God created man(the first man Adam) as a being that God would have a Father-Son relationship with.

However, Adam made a decision that impacted every person born since Adam & Eve was created.

Adams decision put all of mankind in a position of being born with a natural emnity with God because of a change that occurred in the core of man when Adam chose to disobey God.

Man could not fix it even with his own death.

Jesus, being God, was made a man, born of a virgin, therefore without the natural emnity against God. He being without sin and having never sinned was a sacrifice on the Cross and through his death he tasted or suffered death and its consequences for all who chose to accept what He did for us rather than to die "for themselves".

His death is unlike any other mans death because did not have that inward "sin nature" that other men have.

Hope this helps. :)
 
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Sephania

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wow, you seem to be argueing amongst yourselves now. I'm looking to be saved and this thread has become a bit too aggressive for me. i'll look elsehere for answers thanks.


I'm sorry I fell into that C4H, this is about you, not us debating, please forgive me?:blush: :sorry:
 
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