Jesus did not come to save the ((world))

Monk Brendan · Jun 4, 2017

chaela said:
You evidently have faith in free will and your own good works for salvation.

You still misunderstand me. I am not doing things to GAIN heaven. It is because I belong to Jesus that I do good things.

Monk Brendan · Jun 4, 2017

ClementofA said:
But for the grace of God, there go I.

Eph.2: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

And I have never taken the credit for my own salvation. I cooperated with Jesus, yes, but because Jesus was lifted up on the Cross, the Father was able to reach out to me, and invite me to cooperate with Him.

I did NO good works before I gave my life to Jesus. Yes, I was baptized, went through 1st Confession and 1st Communion, and all the other things that little kids did in the Catholic in the 50's. But it wasn't until I was 26 that I realized that I needed to cooperate with Jesus before I could ask Him to do anything for me. When I began cooperating, THEN I was born again, and THEN I realized what cooperating with God really meant. I had to give my life to HIM.

For the past 40 years, I have tried, sometimes with faltering steps, to do His will. It has been hard work, but at this point, I am okay with that.

May God bless you richly.

Rajni · Jun 4, 2017

Monk Brendan said:

You still misunderstand me. I am not doing things to GAIN heaven. It is because I belong to Jesus that I do good things.

Click to expand...

Okay, that does make more sense.

I'm still curious as to which posts of mine you were referring to in your previous statement, quoted below:

Monk Brendan said:
Now you're saying that God has all eternity. If God has all eternity, then the whole world CAN be saved!

But I don't believe it, and based on your former postings, neither do you.

Considering my universalistic soteriology was already firmly in place by the time I joined CF, I'd love to know which of my posts led you to your conclusion. Or maybe you had me confused with someone else?

Monk Brendan · Jun 5, 2017

chaela said:
I'm still curious as to which posts of mine you were referring to in your previous statement, quoted below:

With that type of badgering, you'll never get an answer. Too bad, so sad!

Monk Brendan · Jun 5, 2017

chaela said:
Depending on which church you sit in, you'll hear all sorts of things.

Just so you know, I sit in one of the Churches that were ancient before Luther and Calvin started breathing. Perhaps you may have heard of us. I belong to the Melkite Catholic Church, which comes from the Church of St. Peter in Antioch, before he went to Rome. You remember Antioch, don't you? It was the first place that Jesus' followers were first called Christian.

Rajni · Jun 5, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
With that type of badgering, you'll never get an answer. Too bad, so sad!

Well, you made the claim, you should be able to back it up.
Either provide proof or retract the statement.

Monk Brendan said:
It is because I belong to Jesus that I do good things.

Does that include potentially bearing false witness of other posters here?

Monk Brendan · Jun 6, 2017

chaela said:
Well, you made the claim, you should be able to back it up.
Either provide proof or retract the statement.

Sorry, but I'm not about to start with that. Please stop badgering me, or I will report you.

chaela said:
Does that include potentially bearing false witness of other posters here?

And since when does anyone on these fora pay any attention to that when the poster in question is CATHOLIC?

Johnsloan · Mar 31, 2018

I am not amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved.

Mountainmanbob · Mar 31, 2018

Johnsloan said:
I am not amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved.

Of course not all are saved and that would be according to the Bible some have not read and understood what it means to have a (WIDE) road going down and a (narrow) road going up it's basic and it ain't rocket science.

For some reason some are blinded and will never understand but of course the Bible also discusses that in detail.

M-Bob

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Mar 31, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
It's amazing to me how many people here on this Christian forum that state -- that the whole world will be saved.

John 17:9

I pray for them: I pray not for the world

M-Bob

Agree.
In order for God to save everyone, He would have to take away our free choice which is part of being human– created in the image of God. He would have to make us into machines (robots) or merely beasts, not persons like Himself. By refusing to believe in God and in His Son (who is the only One who can save us), some will make their choice to depart from God and God’s people.

Because everything associated with God (His Creation and Kingdom) is good (the ‘abundant life,’ loving company, faith, hope, peace, joy, pleasure, beauty, etc.), these things cannot be where the Lord is not. So those who choose against God are choosing against everything that is good.

Hell refers to the absence of these things. So of course Hell would be full of hate, faithlessness, despair, loneliness, anger, frustration, ugliness, pain, etc. The Lake of Fire (the “second death”) is where all who are separated out are not truly living but rather always dying—shrinking, becoming less and less—even while the children of God are growing and becoming more and more.

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Mar 31, 2018

Johnsloan said:
I am not amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved.

Those people who are amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved are essentially spoiled children who have not truly known injustice.

Those who have had their children tortured, raped, and murdered are those who scream for justice rather than for mercy for the perpetrators. Yes, some perpetrators will repent and turn to God, some are indeed God’s lost sheep who will be found.

But Jesus indicated that there are also goats and wolves in sheep’s clothing mixed in with the sheep. Spiritually, these were never children of God and will never be children of God; they are instead children of the devil. [“children of the devil”: John 8:42-44, Matthew 13:37-42, John 6:70; 1 John 3:10, Acts 13:10].

Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Mountainmanbob · Mar 31, 2018

He will tell some that, He never knew them. That kind of shoots down the all will go to heaven thing.

Best to stick to the Bible.

M-Bob

Der Alte · Mar 31, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
He will tell some that, He never knew them. That kind of shoots down the all will go to heaven thing.
Best to stick to the Bible.
M-Bob

And since Jesus Christ is eternal and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow that never will always be never.

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Mar 31, 2018

Der Alter said:
And since Jesus Christ is eternal and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow that never will always be never.

Yep!

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Mar 31, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
He will tell some that, He never knew them. That kind of shoots down the all will go to heaven thing.

Best to stick to the Bible.

M-Bob

Yes. There are so many parables and sayings of Jesus that reveal that God separates the good from the evil, the wheat from the weeds, His sheep from the goats-- and He uses the "two-edged sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God" to do it (Ephesians 6:17b , Hebrews 4:12, Isaiah 55:8-11, & 2 Timothy 3:16). We know who are His by the great regard they have for the scriptures as their ultimate authority until Jesus returns.

Mountainmanbob · Mar 31, 2018

Der Alter said:
And since Jesus Christ is eternal and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow that never will always be never.

Let us just take Him for His Word.
Don't need man made thoughts on this one.
MB

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Mar 31, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
Let us just take Him for His Word.
Don't need man made thoughts on this one.
MB

So we just need to quote scriptures here? So there is no need for a Forum with human beings providing their interpretations and opinions?

Strong in Him · Mar 31, 2018

Dr Bruce Atkinson said:
Those people who are amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved are essentially spoiled children who have not truly known injustice.

I don't think that's fair.
Not everyone will be saved, I know that. But I don't feel particularly happy about it.

Salvation isn't about what a person has done.
I dare say there are some murderers/rapists who people hope will rot in hell, yet they may have become Christians in prison -showing true repentance, not superficial in the hope of early release. I read about someone, years ago, who became a Christian on death row, but accepted he had to pay the penalty for his crime.
Some people who are, or have been, criminals, cruel dictators or committed vile deeds may still repent, or have repented. King Ahab was a weak, cruel OT king, yet he turned to God.
We may be unhappy at the thought of them being saved but the Lord can still save them.

On the other hand, some people who live good lives will not be saved because they refuse to believe in, or accept, Jesus.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 31, 2018

Johnsloan said:
I am not amazed at how happy some seem to be at the thought of all not being saved.

I don’t think anyone’s happy about it... I think it’s just a reality we have to accept... not everyone wants God or even believes in God... lots of people are atheist... that’s a reality. But think of it this way... that should be motivation for those that are saved to reach the unsaved. I don’t wanna see this person or that stay lost... so ima do what I can to reach them and compel them as the Bible says to do.

Johnsloan · Mar 31, 2018

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
I don’t think anyone’s happy about it... I think it’s just a reality we have to accept... not everyone wants God or even believes in God... lots of people are atheist... that’s a reality. But think of it this way... that should be motivation for those that are saved to reach the unsaved. I don’t wanna see this person or that stay lost... so ima do what I can to reach them and compel them as the Bible says to do.

Well when you concider what the average Christian does to intervien is nothing.
The church does nothing.
Theres no power in the church and so much in house fighting like we see in here. No wonder there pouring into hell.
If you concider that the average Christian doesnt know what the good news is.
As we see all to clearly here. The average Christians only has the bad news of hell. and mostly look like, well I told you if you dont except Christ you go to hell. what more can I do. The average Christian dialouge is disgusting compared to what God really asks of us. We have over 35,000 Christian denominations and they cant agree together. Its disgracefull.

Jesus did not come to save the ((world))

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