Jesus and Politics

[Imperiuz]

He'd be liberal on economic issues, and conservative on social ones..

You have a point here. While he probably wouldn't be "liberal" exactly in the way of modern socialists and liberals, he wouldn't be pro-free market capitalism either.

I wouldn't like to give Jesus a political label, but I feel quite comfortable being a catholic in the European national conservative movement. My party combines resistance to feminism, the LGBT-lobby, multiculturalism and abortion with social and environmental responsibility. Many of it's sister parties does this as well.

I am not sure if social welfare programs should be run by the Government or if they should be left to individuals and communities

In general, I'd say it's better to publicly fund social welfare programs, but leave the management to different (competing) institutions, like charitable organizations, corporations, volunteers etc. This enhances the civil society and gives freedom of choice for those in need while maintaining safety for all. This goes for public schools as well - while they need funding, there is no need of letting them be managed by a soviet-style state bureaucracy.

it treats all religions as being equal

when this is not the case, Christianity is true and should be encouraged, by being given preference in public schools and in other ways

Absolutely. It is simply otherworldly to threat established and law-abiding institutions that uphold much of society, like the Catholic Church, in the same way as things like dangerous cults. I'd look to Putin's Russia for inspiration on this issue.

 

[Fotis Greece]

Well 'm pretty sure that God is Libertarian. That's why he gave free will to us.

 

[Cearbhall]

My party combines resistance to feminism, the LGBT-lobby, multiculturalism and abortion with social and environmental responsibility. Many of it's sister parties does this as well.

Sweden still has people like that?

 

[Sketcher]

You have a point here. While he probably wouldn't be "liberal" exactly in the way of modern socialists and liberals, he wouldn't be pro-free market capitalism either.

Why not?

In general, I'd say it's better to publicly fund social welfare programs, but leave the management to different (competing) institutions, like charitable organizations, corporations, volunteers etc. This enhances the civil society and gives freedom of choice for those in need while maintaining safety for all. This goes for public schools as well - while they need funding, there is no need of letting them be managed by a soviet-style state bureaucracy.

With funding comes strings attached and extra rules to follow. Once the organization becomes dependent on such funds, it loses its independence and its flexibility. Better to have diversified private donors instead.

Absolutely. It is simply otherworldly to threat established and law-abiding institutions that uphold much of society, like the Catholic Church, in the same way as things like dangerous cults. I'd look to Putin's Russia for inspiration on this issue.

Restricting religious freedom to organizations recognized by the state means doing away with true religious freedom.

 

[Cearbhall]

Absolutely. It is simply otherworldly to threat established and law-abiding institutions that uphold much of society, like the Catholic Church, in the same way as things like dangerous cults. I'd look to Putin's Russia for inspiration on this issue.

Ah yes, law-abiding. Don't mind the pedophilia cover-ups...

How does the Catholic Church uphold society?

 

[Rhamiel]

Ah yes, law-abiding. Don't mind the pedophilia cover-ups...

How does the Catholic Church uphold society?

historically, churches have been instrumental in teaching social norms, acting a focal point for communities, and helping out the needy

not to mention running schools, hospitals, and soup kitchens that take strain off the government infrastructure

as for the jibe about the pedophilia scandal
the wheat and the tares grow side by side in ever group
you are more likely to find a pedophile as a public school teacher or as a social worker

 

[Cearbhall]

historically, churches have been instrumental in teaching social norms, acting a focal point for communities, and helping out the needy

not to mention running schools, hospitals, and soup kitchens that take strain off the government infrastructure

My view of history is that the Church has done as much harm as good, but I was referring to the present day. Schools, hospitals, and soup kitchens are wonderful, but I wouldn't say that the Catholic Church is necessary. Those things can and do exist under the power of other private organizations.

 

[Rhamiel]

My view of history is that the Church has done as much harm as good, but I was referring to the present day. Schools, hospitals, and soup kitchens are wonderful, but I wouldn't say that the Catholic Church is necessary. Those things can and do exist under the power of other private organizations.

well it is important not to demean the Church as to be nothing more then just a social institution

but yeah, the past 20 years or so we see that our society has been increasingly more secular....

but to call that a good thing is not really taking a scientific look, really we have to wait and see how this all turns out

but even now, roughly 13% of hospitals in the USA are Catholic Hospitals, so while it is not a majority, it definitely does take some of the strain off of the "public" system, same with schools and ESPECIALLY true with charitable orginizations

 

[Cearbhall]

well it is important not to demean the Church as to be nothing more then just a social institution

That's not important to me. I consider it to be a social institution like any other.

but even now, roughly 13% of hospitals in the USA are Catholic Hospitals, so while it is not a majority, it definitely does take some of the strain off of the "public" system, same with schools and ESPECIALLY true with charitable orginizations

I'm not denying the good that they do, but Catholic beliefs aren't what give them the ability to provide those services.

 

[Allectus]

I'm surprised at Imperiuz above^

I am ethnically Swedish, and it's pretty rare for Swedes to even believe in God these days. The most religious they get is dance around a maypole, dance like frogs, and you know the rest lol.. Anyways, cool to see you on here.

I think Americans often politicize everything. Jesus certainly wouldn't fit into this US democrat/republican dichotomy in any way shape or form. I highly doubt as God he would support let alone implement the social welfare and fiscal structures we see today.

 

[Rhamiel]

That's not important to me. I consider it to be a social institution like any other.

I'm not denying the good that they do, but Catholic beliefs aren't what give them the ability to provide those services.

but it is not a social institution like any other, because no other social institution was created by Jesus Christ, who is God and man.

I am not sure what you mean by your second statement

 

[Zach91]

Jesus is a Republican because he founded the GOP and 'Merica, when he created the world in 1776.

In all seriousness though, I doubt Jesus would be fiscally liberal. Why would he support the government forcibly taking money from those who are productive and giving it to those who aren't? Does not the Bible says that if a man won't work he shouldn't eat?

 

[Cearbhall]

but it is not a social institution like any other, because no other social institution was created by Jesus Christ, who is God and man.

Ok, but that's not my belief, so I'm not going to agree no matter how many times you reword it.

I am not sure what you mean by your second statement

While there are services that are sponsored by Catholic churches and organizations, there are also non-Catholic organizations that do the same things. We don't need the Catholic Church in order to get these things done.

Why would he support the government forcibly taking money from those who are productive and giving it to those who aren't? Does not the Bible says that if a man won't work he shouldn't eat?

Because the Jesus of the Bible actually understands what causes poverty and wants to help those who can't help themselves, unlike yourself.

 

[Zach91]

Ok, but that's not my belief, so I'm not going to agree no matter how many times you reword it.

While there are services that are sponsored by Catholic churches and organizations, there are also non-Catholic organizations that do the same things. We don't need the Catholic Church in order to get these things done.

Because the Jesus of the Bible actually understands what causes poverty and wants to help those who can't help themselves, unlike yourself.

First off, don't tell me What *I* don't understand or who *I* do or do not want to help. You don't know me.

I have helped people on many occasions that have been Struggling with poverty, who. were willing to work but fell on hard times. That is quite different than the government forcibly depriving me of the money that I worked for And giving it to people so they could gamble, buy a pack of camels, or alcohol. You may think I'm making this up, but we have a real problem with welfair abuse in my state (and I'm sure many others).

Does Jesus expect us to help the less fortunate? Of course! Does he support stealing from hard working people to give entitlements to people, many of whom are capable of making a living on their own but who choose not to? I should think not.

To clarify, my point was that Jesus would not be a far left entitlement supporter, not that he wouldn't want us to help the poor.

 

[Cearbhall]

You may think I'm making this up, but we have a real problem with welfair abuse in my state (and I'm sure many others).

I've studied welfare abuse. I know you're not making it up, but I can also spot about half a dozen stereotypes in your post that are the result of ignorance.

Does Jesus expect us to help the less fortunate? Of course! Does he support stealing from hard working people to give entitlements to people, many of whom are capable of making a living on their own but who choose not to? I should think not.

To clarify, my point was that Jesus would not be a far left entitlement supporter, not that he wouldn't want us to help the poor.

I don't remember Jesus coming up with the right-wing concept of the "deserving poor."

 

[Zach91]

I've studied welfare abuse. I know you're not making it up, but I can also spot about half a dozen stereotypes in your post that are the result of ignorance.

I don't remember Jesus coming up with the right-wing concept of the "deserving poor."

Of course, any beliefs that differ from your own are a result of ignorance. Instead of insulting me, why don't you disapprove my arguments with facts?

FYI the examples I cited are not just "ignorant stereotypes." My sister works at a grocery store and she sees people using their EBT cards to buy such frivolous items every single day, and many times they are driving a nice new vehicle as well. There have been times when they have had kids with them saying "I'm hungry mommy" as the mom was buying cigarets and energy drinks with her EBT card.

I am sure if I did the research I could find you reliable statistics that prove that this is a very frequent occurrence, unfortunately I am busy finishing up my degree and do not have the time.

As to your second point: "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." 2nd Thessalonians 3:10

Jesus loves everyone, but I cannot believe that he is one who encourages the government enabling people capable of working, to take food out of the mouths of those who work hard.

At any rate, I tire of this discussion, but I will give you some advice--- If you want people to take you seriously use evidence in your arguments rather than personal insults.

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." ~ Socrates

 

[Cearbhall]

At any rate, I tire of this discussion, but I will give you some advice--- If you want people to take you seriously use evidence in your arguments rather than personal insults.

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." ~ Socrates

I do apologize for insulting you. I know that's no way to make a person listen. I just get fed up with people failing to look at the causes of welfare abuse.

I am sure if I did the research I could find you reliable statistics that prove that this is a very frequent occurrence, unfortunately I am busy finishing up my degree and do not have the time.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously, then.

 

[OGM]

I would like to see welfare abuse statistics. For the amount of press it gets. I have not seen any study or figures.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

What political stances match Jesus the best? And why?

.

Ultra conservative Holy Roller , anti-liberal , intollerant to immorality . He would have been chastized today even more than he was in his day.

 

[KingCrimson250]

Ultra conservative Holy Roller , anti-liberal , intollerant to immorality . He would have been chastized today even more than he was in his day.

Out of curiosity, why do you think He would be so conservative? I don't seem to recall Him embracing or espousing any right-wing ideology.