Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[Leaf473]

I didn’t quote “me” I quoted scripture. You are free to accept or reject the scriptures, we have free will. You made a statement that can’t be backed by the scriptures, which is why you didn’t post the scripture that we should go on our thoughts and feelings instead of obeying the commandments of God. Our words , opinions, thoughts are not equal to scripture. We should be thankful that there are safeguards in scripture so we can be sure we are following in Truth and Spirit which is what we are called to do so we can make corrections if needed. John 4:23-24

The scripture I would post is Don't lean on your own understanding, the same one you did. But aren't you saying that we are to lean on our own understanding of the scriptures?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The scripture I would post is Don't lean on your own understanding, the same one you did. But aren't you saying that we are to lean on our own understanding of the scriptures?

No I am believing in the promise God made that His Sabbath is an eternal covenant and we are commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy. Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 31:16 Doing His ways, not our own on His holy day Isaiah 58:13 These are God’s words, not mine.

We can agree to disagree. God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

No I am believing in the promise God made that His Sabbath is an eternal covenant and we are commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy. Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 31:16 Doing His ways, not our own on His holy day Isaiah 58:13 These are God’s words, not mine.

We can agree to disagree. God bless.

We can agree to disagree, if you wish.
Peace be with you, my sister.
____________
If someone else wants to join in, here's my question:
There are a lot of words that are God's words.

Do we read those words and then lean on our own understanding of those words?

 

[BobRyan]

What you say sounds good. But wouldn't that be leaning on our own understanding of the Scriptures?

Are you suggesting that someone here rely on your understanding rather than their own Bible study?? Is the Holy Spirit available to them as they study the Bible - in your POV?

 

[Leaf473]

Are you suggesting that someone here rely on your understanding rather than their own Bible study?? Is the Holy Spirit available to them as they study the Bible - in your POV?

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. Yes, the Holy Spirit is available to them as well.

 

[Leaf473]

So, taking the next step:

If you open the Bible and look at the page, your eyes are seeing markings on paper. That information is sent to your brain, which makes sense out of it. Thoughts form, and you have an understanding.

But those thoughts and understanding are your own, aren't they? So how do we avoid leaning on our own understanding?

One way is to look to see what other Christians are believing. Assuming that Christ is the head of His body, the church, we can look to see where the body as a whole has been led.

And that's why I liked @Bob S's post #956. Looking around at the Christian world, I think the vast majority of Christians are having the same experience.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, taking the next step:

If you open the Bible and look at the page, your eyes are seeing markings on paper. That information is sent to your brain, which makes sense out of it. Thoughts form, and you have an understanding.

But those thoughts and understanding are your own, aren't they? So how do we avoid leaning on our own understanding?

One way is to look to see what other Christians are believing. Assuming that Christ is the head of His body, the church, we can look to see where the body as a whole has been led.

And that's why I liked @Bob S's post #956. Looking around at the Christian world, I think the vast majority of Christians are having the same experience.

I find it interesting that no one seems to have any misunderstandings on the other nine commandments, only the Sabbath commandment despite God going out of His way to make it as clear as possible. God adding the word "Remember" because He knew people would forget.

I also find it interesting people take no issue that there is no scripture in the bible that tells us the first day is God's holy day, a day of rest, a day of worship now or ever, it's not a day God set aside and blessed or sanctified. There is no commandment of God for Sunday keeping, but yet people choose to believe this over the very words that God wrote with His own finger, the very words God spoke with His own voice, and this is somehow "confusing".

 

[Leaf473]

I find it interesting that no one seems to have any misunderstandings on the other nine commandments, only the Sabbath commandment despite God going out of His way to make it as clear as possible. God adding the word "Remember" because He knew people would forget.

I also find it interesting people take no issue that there is no scripture in the bible that tells us the first day is God's holy day, a day of rest, a day of worship now or ever, it's not a day God set aside and blessed or sanctified. There is no commandment of God for Sunday keeping, but yet people choose to believe this over the very words that God wrote with His own finger, the very words God spoke with His own voice, and this is somehow "confusing".

I'm not sure if Misunderstandings is the right word to use, but there are definitely different ways of understanding the commandment about killing / murder, to pick that has an example.

It looks like the vast majority of Christians believe that killing should not be done indiscriminantly, but may be allowed in certain conditions. I think there's a main body of agreement there.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It looks like the vast majority of Christians believe that killing should not be done indiscriminantly, but may be allowed in certain conditions. I think there's a main body of agreement there.

Scripture never tells us to follow the popular belief, the Word of God has never been popular even in the time of Jesus, but God has preserved His people and they are a remnant who still keep the commandments of God. Revelation 12:17. Scripture confirms there are His people out there who understand and keep the commandments of God, so while most probably do not agree, what matters is God said so, so I believe it.

 

[Leaf473]

Scripture never tells us to follow the popular belief, the Word of God has never been popular even in the time of Jesus, but God has preserved His people and they are a remnant who still keep the commandments of God. Revelation 12:17. Scripture confirms there are His people out there who understand and keep the commandments of God, so while most probably do not agree, what matters is God said so, so I believe it.

I agree that we are not to follow the popular belief. Scripture also says that the followers of Jesus are the light of the world, a city set on a hill.

imo it's fine if you want to have a remnant church theology, as long as that remnant has been clearly visible throughout history, like a city on a hill.
____________

And I agree that the church keeps the commandments. But that brings us back around to: which ones?

How do you decide which commandments are for today without leaning on your own understanding?

 

[BobRyan]

So, taking the next step:

If you open the Bible and look at the page, your eyes are seeing markings on paper.

That is true of a two-year old as well. But the Bible remains "The Word of God" - scripture... even though a two-year old sees it only as "marking on paper".

So I suppose we can agree there.

But those thoughts and understanding are your own, aren't they?

Indeed the two-year old becomes a 9 year old able to read - and goes on to become a 21 year old that can do calculus with great accuracy. That does not mean that said two-year-old "invented Calculus".

I suspect we can agree here as well.

One way is to look to see what other Christians are believing.

No doubt that is helpful -- but just as the two-year old who can later master calculus cannot confine himself to only solving the exact same problem worked out for him on the board - and must learn to solve new problems of a similar type even when it does not involve the exact same problem -- so also each individual is able to learn and be accurate. In fact some of those 21 year-olds will point to cases where the book itself is wrong in the answers to odd-questions in the back of the book.

group-think and herd-mentality are both aberrations of a good thing taken to extreme. So in Mark 7:6-13 Jesus does not ask "so then what doe the group think?" . He does not say regarding the leading scholars of Judaism and their history of tradition - "what is the magesterium's answer because that is what we should do"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree that we are not to follow the popular belief. Scripture also says that the followers of Jesus are the light of the world, a city set on a hill.

imo it's fine if you want to have a remnant church theology, as long as that remnant has been clearly visible throughout history, like a city on a hill.
____________

And I agree that the church keeps the commandments. But that brings us back around to: which ones?

How do you decide which commandments are for today without leaning on your own understanding?

It’s not “me” who teaches about God’s remnant Church it is God’s Word. Scripture clearly shows the characteristics of God’s remnant church. Revelation 12:17 They have stayed true to God’s teachings and God’s commandments and has not followed the teachings of man, that lead people away from the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

We were talking about the Ten Commandments so not sure why you are asking which ones.

I think God by design made the Ten Commandments easy to understand, He not only spoke them with His own voice, He wrote them with His own finger Exodus 31:18 and sadly most people and churches no longer teach on God’s commandments just like it was predicted by our all-knowing loving Savior and why scripture tells us there is only a small amount of people left that keep the original of God’s Word. The invitation is open to all, just like Noah invited everyone to get on the ark, few believed.

 

[Leaf473]

That is true of a two-year old as well. But the Bible remains "The Word of God" - scripture... even though a two-year old sees it only as "marking on paper".

So I suppose we can agree there.




Indeed the two-year old becomes a 9 year old able to read - and goes on to become a 21 year old that can do calculus with great accuracy. That does not mean that said two-year-old "invented Calculus".

I suspect we can agree here as well.



No doubt that is helpful -- but just as the two-year old who can later master calculus cannot confine himself to only solving the exact same problem worked out for him on the board - and must learn to solve new problems of a similar type even when it does not involve the exact same problem -- so also each individual is able to learn and be accurate. In fact some of those 21 year-olds will point to cases where the book itself is wrong in the answers to odd-questions in the back of the book.

group-think and herd-mentality are both aberrations of a good thing taken to extreme. So in Mark 7:6-13 Jesus does not ask "so then what doe the group think?" . He does not say regarding the leading scholars of Judaism and their history of tradition - "what is the magesterium's answer because that is what we should do"

Do you believe that the Bible can be reduced to mathematical style calculations? Especially regarding which commandments are for today?

 

[Leaf473]

It’s not “me” who teaches about God’s remnant Church it is God’s Word. Scripture clearly shows the characteristics of God’s remnant church. Revelation 12:17 They have stayed true to God’s teachings and God’s commandments and has not followed the teachings of man, that lead people away from the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

We were talking about the Ten Commandments so not sure why you are asking which ones.

I think God by design made the Ten Commandments easy to understand, He not only spoke them with His own voice, He wrote them with His own finger Exodus 31:18 and sadly most people and churches no longer teach on God’s commandments just like it was predicted by our all-knowing loving Savior and why scripture tells us there is only a small amount of people left that keep the original of God’s Word. The invitation is open to all, just like Noah invited everyone to get on the ark, few believed.

Is one of the characteristics of the remnant Church that it is the light of the world, a city set on a hill that cannot be hidden?

I agree that you were talking about the ten commandments. But you also believe that there are other commandments, Yes? So... about all the commandments for today: Do you believe that they are all easy to see?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is one of the characteristics of the remnant Church that it is the light of the world, a city set on a hill that cannot be hidden?

Yes, spiritually. Scripture says it’s not the popular choice (a remnant) it won’t be the obvious church. Jesus came in on a donkey not jeweled in gold, diamonds and lavish trappings. Many missed Jesus was the Meesiah becuase of this.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, but since scripture says it’s not the popular choice (a remanat) it won’t be the obvious church. Jesus came in on a donkey not jeweled in gold, diamonds and lavish trappings. Many missed Jesus was the Meesiah becuase of this.

Cool! So... what was the obvious city on a hill remnant Church in, say, 1200?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Cool! So... what was the obvious city on a hill remnant Church in, say, 1200?

I don’t think we are going to agree who the remenant church is but according to God’s Word, they keep the commandments of God. That should eliminate a lot of churches since most say you don’t need to keep God’s commandments or have altered God’s own Word. Take care

 

[Leaf473]

I don’t think we are going to agree who the remenant church is but according to God’s Word, they keep the commandments of God. That should eliminate a lot of churches since most say you don’t need to keep God’s commandments or have altered God’s own Word. Take care

Right... there wasn't a remnant Church that was like a city set on a hill in 1200, at least that you or I can see.

Something's wrong with that situation imo.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right... there wasn't a remnant Church that was like a city set on a hill in 1200, at least that you or I can see.

Something's wrong with that situation imo.

The characteristics of the remnant church according to scripture keep the commandments of God and have the tertominy of Jesus Revelation 12:17

What I was referring was bringing a light to this world which is not literal in the NT, but spiritual, which I see as part of the Three Angels message where Jesus is calling His people out of the false teachings and back to keeping the commandments of God as shown in Revelation 14.

 

[Leaf473]

The characteristics of the remnant church according to scripture keep the commandments of God and have the tertominy of Jesus Revelation 12:17

What I was referring was bringing a light to this world which is not literal in the NT, but spiritual, which I see as part of the Three Angels message where Jesus is calling His people out of the false teachings and back to keeping the commandments of God as shown in Revelation 14.

If the city set on a hill is a spiritual thing, can only be seen with spiritual eyes so to speak, then I suppose you could make that fit.

Obviously, the church is not a literal city on a hill. But my impression from that passage is that it is clearly seen in the same way that a city on a hill is clearly seen.
______________

If the characteristics of the remnant Church are that they keep the commandments of God, then a person has to know what the commandments of God are before they can identify the remnant church.
____________________________

Also, what church was repeating the Three Angels message in 1200? Or do you believe that the remnant church disappeared from the earth for a while?