Jeb Bush

[AirPo]

I guess it really goes back to the Kennedy Nixon debate. But I wasn't even born yet, that why that one isn't the one that comes to mind.

 

[Albion]

I guess it really goes back to the Kennedy Nixon debate. But I wasn't born yet, that why that one isn't the one that comes to mind.

I don't consider either Kennedy or Nixon to have looked unpresidential. With Bush and Kerry, I thought I could appreciate your thinking about that.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think Jeb is being pushed by some combination of the GOP 'establishment' and the media, I don't know anyone who is walking around pumped up for a Jeb Bush candidacy. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I just think he's far to moderate for my (and most Republican's) taste. I think we need to nominate a conservative who will make a real contrast with the Dem nominee. We've been told too many times "we need to nominate a moderate, take the party to the center!" only to do that and loose.

I think it's a matter of finding a candidate who's moderate on the right things.

Obviously there's no point in nominating a person who caves on everything, because you're essentially voting for another democrat at that point...I get it.

However, there are certain issues (pertaining to things that are impacted by religious affiliation) that the republicans need to scrap if they expect to be more viable.

The problem with aiming for that 100% contrast is that you're only going to appease 30% of the population and alienate the other 70%.

If you could run a republican who's very conservative on economics & guns & defense spending, but moderate on sex & religion & science, they'd stand a much better chance IMHO.

Taking a hard-line stance on traditional marriage & pro-life in a country where the number of fundamentalists is dropping by 5-10% per year is a poor strategy (at least if your goal is getting elected).

There are certain cornerstones of republicanism (fiscal policy, free market ideals) that give them their identity as a party...I understand why these shouldn't be compromised...however, you have to provide wiggle room on the "preference policies" (as I call them). If you don't, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. I've said for a few years now that republicans fighting marriage equality and abortion is the wrong hill to die on...so to speak.

 

[Albion]

I think it's a matter of finding a candidate who's moderate on the right things.

Obviously there's no point in nominating a person who caves on everything, because you're essentially voting for another democrat at that point...I get it.

However, there are certain issues (pertaining to things that are impacted by religious affiliation) that the republicans need to scrap if they expect to be more viable.

The problem with aiming for that 100% contrast is that you're only going to appease 30% of the population and alienate the other 70%.

If you could run a republican who's very conservative on economics & guns & defense spending, but moderate on sex & religion & science, they'd stand a much better chance IMHO.

Taking a hard-line stance on traditional marriage & pro-life in a country where the number of fundamentalists is dropping by 5-10% per year is a poor strategy (at least if your goal is getting elected).

But on the other hand, traditional marriage and pro-life are hardly the beliefs of only "fundamentalists." The largest church of all is described by both of those causes and if gay marriage is gaining in popularity, so is pro-life.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But on the other hand, traditional marriage and pro-life are hardly the beliefs of only "fundamentalists." The largest church of all is described by both of those causes and if gay marriage is gaining in popularity, so is pro-life.

But is that what we're seeing in public survey data?

It's all about looking at the trends and degrees:

The largest segment is (and has always been) the moderate position on the matter.

The "certain circumstances" have always generally referred to the same 3 things: Rape, incest, and Woman's health.

When a GOP member comes out and says they want to put restrictions on it, and only want to provide an exemption for one of those three things, they're definitely alienating 28%, and running the risk of alienating up to another 50% depending on what kind of moderate the voter is.

Absolutist pro-life is, today, where it was at in 1976 in terms of support...pro-choice has increased 6% in that time period while the number of moderates has dropped...meaning, moderates are slowly shifting to a pro-choice position.

And as far as the marriage bit is concerned:

The data is pretty cut and dry on that one.

You made reference to the largest Church of all...
The largest church of all's membership in the US only comprises 22% of the population...which if you'll notice, is pretty close to being on par with the 21% that take an absolutist pro-life position.

 

[Albion]

The data is pretty cut and dry on that one.

On that one, we were in agreement from the start.

You made reference to the largest Church of all...
The largest church of all's membership in the US only comprises 22% of the population...which if you'll notice, is pretty close to being on par with the 21% that take an absolutist pro-life position.

Surely you don't think that the pro-life position is held and advocated ONLY by the Roman Catholic Church? It was worth mentioning that the largest church is firm on this issue but it's far from the only one, and surveys have recently shown a growth in the percentage of Americans favoring Life. Whether that was under certain circumstances or all of them, I don't remember.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Surely you don't think that the pro-life position is held and advocated ONLY by the Roman Catholic Church? It was worth mentioning that the largest church is firm on this issue but it's far from the only one, and surveys have recently shown a growth in the percentage of Americans favoring Life. Whether that was under certain circumstances or all of them, I don't remember.

Obviously not, I realize there are other denominations that advocate the same positions, I was just simply pointing that out to put the scope in better perspective.

My main point was illustrated in that first chart I posted.

 

[HonestTruth]

Jeb Bush declares 'ISIS didn't exist when my brother was president,' gets mugged by reality



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...-brother-was-President-gets-mugged-by-reality




As Der Spiegel explained, it was President Bush's "de-Ba'athification" and disbanding of Saddam's military that meant that "thousands of well-trained Sunni officers were robbed of their livelihood with the stroke of a pen."

Among those who subsequently partnered with self-proclaimed ISIS emir Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi were Haji Bakr (a colonel in Saddam's air force intelligence service), Abu Omar al-Baghdadi (another former Iraqi officer) and "King of Clubs" Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri.





Blame Bush!

 

[HonestTruth]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=f298d10961fc2ada117f82c7a5dbf999&oe=55F931B8




Vote Bush and Armageddon is sure to follow!

 

[AirPo]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=f298d10961fc2ada117f82c7a5dbf999&oe=55F931B8




Vote Bush and Armageddon is sure to follow!

The heads get bigger. Did you think that was on purpose?

 

[NightHawkeye]

 

[TheBear]

What is a "presidential look"? I'm not getting what you meant by that from the picture? Unless it was sarcasm, then I still didn't get it...

It's an age old ploy. Look for the least flattering photo of a person, and run with it.

 

[Avid]

There's no doubt but that Jeb has a casual speaking style that's not very exciting--more like a graduate school professor--and doesn't look particularly imposing. Many of the other Republican candidates beat him out in both respects. But it's hard to predict what qualities of which candidate can catch the public's fancy...

What I heard today, he has the Chief Executive experience others lack. Well, that did not really help, nor was it considered important in the last two pres elections!!!

 

[Avid]

Well... I have not made the decision who to vote for yet... Old Jeb may yet get my vote.

I liked him as Gov., but he blew it for me as he screen door hit him on his way out of the Gov.'s Mansion. He started talking about illegal's, and referencing immigratiotion together in sentences, and it sort of blew whatever he had established with me... Hey, established... Establishment?!?!? sound a little fishy!

Some say he will do what Hillary would do if she got in, and i don't doubt it much!

 

[Avid]

It's an age old ploy. Look for the least flattering photo of a person, and run with it.

I'll make that my wife's background image, and she'll beat me soundly!!!

 

[HonestTruth]

The heads get bigger. Did you think that was on purpose?

Great observation!

 

[tulc]

maybe he should try this:

tulc(just a suggestion)

 

[Albion]

What I heard today, he has the Chief Executive experience others lack. Well, that did not really help, nor was it considered important in the last two pres elections!!!

I think I agree. And what's more, I don't know how it can be said that he has executive experience that others lack...not in a field that features a number of other governors or ex-governors. The comment must have been made in reference to Hillary rather than to the other Republican candidates, or else he's most afraid of Sens. Rubio, Cruz, and Paul.

 

[Albion]

I liked him as Gov., but he blew it for me as he screen door hit him on his way out of the Gov.'s Mansion. He started talking about illegal's, and referencing immigratiotion together in sentences, and it sort of blew whatever he had established with me... Hey, established... Establishment?!?!? sound a little fishy!

Some say he will do what Hillary would do if she got in, and i don't doubt it much!

I tend to think he'd be somewhat better, but he would indeed be a moderately liberal, establishment Republican, which is exactly what we do NOT need at this time.

 

[tulc]

I tend to think he'd be somewhat better, but he would indeed be a moderately liberal, establishment Republican, which is exactly what we do NOT need at this time.

Unfortunately for some (and fortunately for the rest of the US) that's the only kind of Republican that stands a even a sort of chance getting elected to the office of the President.
tulc(which is why all of the clowns in the Republican clown car at this time are funny, not worrisome)