• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

I've been a baptist all my life but am becoming slowly convinced of pedobaptism

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Skala, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

    +410
    Baptist
    Married
    Sure. I'm still learning myself but I can try to explain what my understanding is. There are many denominations that practice pedobaptism but they don't all baptize for the same reason. So, I will be explaining what I understand to be the reformed/covenantal view of pedobaptism. (I could be wrong in my explanation as I said, I'm still learning and am a beginner)

    (Please note I am not trying to convince anyone of pedobaptism here, as that is against the rules. I am merely trying to express my understanding of it, and was asked in the previous post to explain)

    1) God made a covenant with Abraham and told him to apply the sign of this covenant to believers and their children (male circumcision)

    2) In the New Testament, the disciples make it plain that baptism is now the sign of the covenant and circumcision is no longer necessary. The waters of baptism point to the finished work of Christ, but it's still the Abrahamic covenant (ie if you are Christ's, you are Abraham's offspring, and heir of the promise - Gal 3:29)

    3) there is no new instruction in the New Testament to change who the recipients of the Abrahamic covenant are - it is still believers and their children

    4) God works with people and relates to them in covenant communities and especially family units

    5) In the NT we see many examples of people who believed the gospel, and per Christ's command, subjected themselves to Christian baptism (the sign of the covenant) and then went and had their whole household baptized as well.

    6) In the NT, the mentions of adults who believed and were baptized is to be expected as the command is to give baptism to anyone who becomes a Christian. These examples are simply history being recorded by the NT authors, and not necessarily new instruction that changes the rules of who the sign of the Abrahamic covenant is applied to.

    There are many more arguments to be made (I've been reading books and taking notes) but hopefully this is a good starting point.

    Take care.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  2. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +2,253
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    .
    That was a very good explanation, now I know where you stand, I believe you are seeking to have a closer walk with God, and this is important to you in order to achieve that goal.

    I personally do not believe what you are professing, but on the other hand, just because you follow this Baptismal belief, I cannot say it adversely affects your personal Salvation because you have come to it as an adult.

    My only objection is, an infant must be led to the same acceptance of Jesus as Savior, and then Baptized again as an Adult Believer with the full knowledge of his actions, where the first Baptism was done for him without his knowledge.

    The Believers Baptism has to be in conjunction with his Belief.

    Mark 16:16
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
     
  3. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Honestly I have very little knowledge of Pedobaptism, Reformed or non Reformed.
    Was a Baptist for Many years ,and was taught the definition of Baptism was total immersion.
    I have found memories of a River in Ohio where I was Baptized.
    Looking forward to learning more about why your theology is leaning this way.
     
  4. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Question Jesus was circumcised as the law of Moses prescribed.
    Then He was Baptised in water and when arising the Holy Spirit fell on Him as like a Dove.
    We Have three separate events that happened in the New Testament.
    Christ being our example there is no mention of Infant Baptism in the New Testament.
    How do you see a replacement for circumcision being connected to the events of Christ's obedience ?
     
  5. FinishedCross

    FinishedCross New Member

    20
    +10
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    If you can see the the Truth regarding pedo-baptism then it is the first sign God is calling you home to the Kingdom. By seeking for that kind of info, God WILL provide answers so he can lead you to the Kingdom. He will ONLY lead you to the Kingdom which is why Jesus said to SEEK FIRST the Kingom. So you can quote the OT until you blue in the face.

    Christians inow who their God is and repect his commands. But these days colorng the letters red arent good enough. Let the others flip over to Daniel. let the dead bury the dead.

    It is incredibly rare to see something like this happen. Those who do not believe in baby baptism, are not children of promise because God ONLY calls Parents **AND** their children together (Acts 7? Cant remember the verse.. hard to copy paste on Ipad. Just read the verses over slowley and logically and search for a PRO baby baptist opinion on those verses. You can then be included with 95% of Christians worldwide and 100% through history).

    Those who deny this baby baptism believe in ANOTHER baptism which violates our ONE Baptism and therefore religion and faith. At that point they reject the Creeds and are fully removed from Rome. These are called Anabaptists (the 40,000 sects).

    -Catholic
    -Protestant (which is catholic)
    -Anabaptist (privately run, growth-based enterprises, fully and completely detached from Rome in all aspects, make up about 5% of worldwide Christianity when honest statistics are used, the great bulk is in America only, but rapidly growing in Africa, tragically are referred to as 'Protestant' which 'authors confusion' among men and brethren).
     
  6. FinishedCross

    FinishedCross New Member

    20
    +10
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    You just called Jesus a sinner, but I'm sure you don't realize what you did. The Bible has these kinds of divine safegaurds throughout. Anyone can look up why, but people are too comfortable in their s... umm.. 'error'.

    It's much easier to play victim and censor differing opinions, instead of investigating the possibility that you might be in error.

    Actually, the Bible can be a dangerous book for salvation and can lead to your own destruction. Peter warned of this.

    The Anabaptists started the same - laity grabbed the Bible and thought they knew it all. Playing the victim and censoring those who disagreed with them. Munster: the first communist experiment disguised as 'Freedom'. The Pelegian heresy was 'born again' (pun intended). Since then its been 40,000 sects later, most in modern times.

    Advice? Get into a Church ASAP that has a valid sacrament/Ordanace of Baptism an get your children baptised ASAP at a Cath/Orth/Prot Church. (Theres less than a dozen Protestant Churches that have a valid baptism, and thank God they make the vast majority of 'Protestants' worldwide.)
     
  7. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    I most certianly did not call Jesus a Sinner.
    Water Baptism has nothing to do with salvation, it is a sacrament.
    Jesus did all His Works as a Man, He set aside His Devine Nature .
    Jesus was our example ,His ministry began When The Holy Spirit came on Him ,and straight away He went into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan.
    Jesus Was sinless ,simply because He was the sacarfice for our sin did not cause Him to Sin.
    He died for our sin but was not punished in He'll like some teach.
    He was is and always will be victorious over Death,Hell, and the Grave.
    God Bless you butI really do not figure how you arrived at this conclusion unless it is a part of your doctrine.
    Many believe that Paleo Baptism ,is a replacement for the law of circumcision.
    The word baptism in its self is defined as immersion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  8. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Matthew 3: 13. Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Jesus fulfilled the Law, and kept the Law until after the cross.

    Luke 2: 27. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
    A number of days must. Pass before a child is circumcised, at that time a child is brought for circumcision under Hebrew law.
    The blood must acquire the ability to coagilate.
    It is not happenstance they waited a certain number of days.
    If Christ had not kept the Law before the cross ,the the sin of the Law would have deemed him unworthy.
    The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is apart from believers baptism.
    Notice when he came up the spirit came down on Him.
    We do not receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit during Baptism in water.
    We are called to baptism in Christ by the Holy Spirit,this is repentance upon believe and salvation.
    We are immersed in water in Baptism as a testimony of our faith,in The Father Son and Holy Spirit.
    Depending on our Faith we receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    We are immersed in the fullness of God.

    Acts 1: 2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

    More explanations;

    Matthew 3: 11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. 13. Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    Read God's Word before you seek to counsel a brother about salvation.

    I ask my friends to forgive me from going off topic of the thread.
     
  9. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    My brother it seems that you have gotten very little help from those familiar with both sides and the reasons for their views. Thigh I have the impression that you have little respect for what I might have to say I pray that in God's grace I might be able to help you.

    It seems that the question in your heart come from a lack of understanding the Baptist Covenant theology. John Gill does a great job of defending believers baptism and can easily be found online. Also a book that can be found on Amazon for less than a doll or if I remember correctly which I will give you the name of later when I find it, is of great value in seeing the difference between pedobaptist and baptist covenant theology. Pink's book on the covenants is also very helpful. It too can be found online.

    But for starters we Baptists do not see baptism as a continuation of the Abrahamic covenant. We see it as a sign of the everlasting covenant of grace made between the three persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world. It is our public confession of faith. Moreover it signifies our death, burial and resurrection in Christ by faith. Circumcision signifies the cutting off of the flesh and to equate baptism with circumcision is to make apples be oranges.

    Still more infant baptism is said to put them in the covenant but nowhere is that actually taught in the Scriptures. That is the problem with "good and necessary consequence" which is taught in the Westminster Confession. The Presbyterians arrive at their view through not what this Scriptures actually and clearly teach but through a faulty logic which they call good and necessary consequence. Moreover their argument is from the silence of the Scriptures.

    I hope that gives you something to consider at least for a while. Please feel free to pm me or simply ask in this thread if you would like for me to continue. Praying our gracious God and Savior will open your eyes and heart to truth.
     
  10. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    Perhaps Skala it would be good for you to post each of their arguments in single posts and allow me to respond to it. That way you would not be trying convince me of pedobaptism but seeking to understand the difference. I will check here every day to see how or if you want to continue.


    BTW the name of the other book I mentioned is "Covenant Theology from Adam to Christ". It is very good and well worth the read. You can find the kindle edition on Amazon for 10 bucks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  11. FinishedCross

    FinishedCross New Member

    20
    +10
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Sure you did:

    Luke 3:2-3 (33) ..the word of God came unto John..the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin..

    Matthew 3:11 (33) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance

    Matthew 3:5-6 (33) ..Jerusalem..Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan..were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

    Mark 1:4-5 John did baptize..the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins..and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

    You just fell into a trap which is normal. The Bible is written like this on purpose. God protects His Church and his means of Salvation. Books can only point you toward such. But you must first Seek the Kingdom before all else.
     
  12. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Your kidding right?
    That or you have misunderstood the narrative of the Gospel.
    John the Baptist was not speaking to Christ in Matt.3:11.

    As far as Christ being Baptized due to conversion as a sinner,you simply do not understand the stream of consciousness in the text.

    AndJesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness.
    Tell me what is the context of this statement ?

    So who has fallen into a trap?

    Here is a hint, line upon line and precept upon precept.
    Think before you reply, study up on Semantics in literary structure.

    As well putting repentance in bold print ,has no purpose in reinforcing your theology.
    It is a abstract straw man.
     
  13. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

    +1,460
    Calvinist
    Married
    After a little research I remember the biggest difference between Baptist Covenant theology and Presbyterian Covenant theology. Baptists see the Covenant of Grace progressively revealed and administered in the whole of the Old Testament. Each covenant, Noah, Abraham, Moses,David, all reveal a different aspect of the Covenant of Grace. Presbyterians see the Old Testament covenants as two different administrations of the Covenant of Grace.

    That is how they arrive at baptism being a continuation of circumcision.

    Here is a link to an article which plainly states the differences:
    Covenant Theology: Presbyterian or Baptist?

    Here is another link to a great book on Baptist Covenant theology:
    https://www.amazon.com/Distinctiven.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  14. iwbswiaihl

    iwbswiaihl Newbie

    +251
    Christian
    Married
    Gal 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    Gal 3:26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Seeing as how these two text show us that the blessings of Abraham come through the promise of the Spirit through faith and heirs according to the promise, how could one come to Christ except by faith in Jesus Christ. Other than David taking solace in the fact that he was going where his child was which I believe he meant with God there is not in direct text that would seal it but I do believe that a baby has no capability of committing a sin. True they have the sin nature, but scripture speaks a couple of times of a child not being able to discern between good and evil, and I can not see one not going to heaven when they die by the grace of God. But baptizing anyone before they themselves believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is never mentioned in the scriptures. The blood of Jesus saves us, not water baptism even after our profession of faith. The one true baptism is the Holy Spirit baptizing us into the body of Christ. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Phillip told the Ethiopians when asked what hinders me from being baptized, Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So the question goes, why teach something that is not taught in scripture? We have enough of that going on now, don't we?
     
  15. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,450
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Something to think about.
    The Bible speaks of being conceived in sin.
    This would be the parents sin ,not the Child.
    The Bible also speaks of those who are wicked from birth.
    This context is of Cain and His generation's.
    Jesus said he are of your father the Devil, speaking to the High priests of Israel.
    This is only my opinion, but I do not believe all newborn babies have been born with a sin nature.

    Matthew 18: 2. And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3. And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. 10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

    If the parents have Christ body,I would be doubtful the Child is born with a sin Nature.
    This does not prohibit, the Child growing to the knowledge of sin,
    No more than Infant Baptism has the ability to provide santifaction.

    As mentioned in the Bible some are naturally born with a wicked nature:

    Psalm 58: 1. Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? 2. Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. 3. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. 4. Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear; 5. Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.

    We still know the earth was corrupted front the original Sin.
    And we still know Christ has redeemed all that would receive him from all Sin.

    And we still know God cannot look up on sin,so we look at Matt.18 vs. 10.
    It is somewhat of a paradoxical understanding.
     
  16. iwbswiaihl

    iwbswiaihl Newbie

    +251
    Christian
    Married
    The sin nature passes on to all because both parents have it and it passed on from first Adam as scripture teaches. Parents even though saved still have the sin nature, but it now does not have rule/dominion over them. It is not eradicated.
     
  17. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

    +2,856
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    CA-Others
    I don't believe we can start with the sacrament of baptism but with understanding the covenants and how they are explained in scripture.

    If you consider the Mosaic covenant as the covenant of grace than you may conclude that children are included in the covenant just as they were in the OT. To baptize infants would be a legal obligation just as circumcision was a legal obligation. Baptists tend, historically, to view the Mosaic covenant as a republication of the covenant of works, the same "do and live" covenant given to Adam in the garden.

    "But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me." Hos 6:7​

    The covenant promised in Gen. 3:15 was confirmed to Abraham in Gen. 17. Christ makes this promise a reality, "for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Matt. 26:28 This 'new covenant' was not enacted until Christ's death, covenants being confirmed by blood and the "death of the testator."

    "For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established." Heb. 9:16​

    So I guess you have to decide if the Mosaic covenant is a covenant of grace or a covenant of law and works. I find Presbyterians work from baptism backward and have created a covenant theology to support their position on baptism. Beeke notes in his Puritan Theology that many of the Divines in attendance at the Westminster Assembly held to a view of republication, their view being similar to that of the Baptists, it was not considered orthodox.

    A. W. Pink Commenting on Hebrews 8.6:

    This more excellent ministry Christ is here said to have “obtained.” The way whereby the Lord Jesus entered on the whole office and work of His mediation has been expressed in Hebrews 1:4 as by “inheritance”: that is, by free grant and perpetual donation, made unto Him as the Son
    The ministry of the old covenant was powerless, it never obtained anything and only looked forward to the promised Messiah.

    “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.” Hebrews 8.7

    The covenant which is here referred to is that into which Jehovah entered with Israel at Sinai: see Exodus 19:5; 34:27, 28; Deuteronomy 4:13. Israel’s response is recorded in Exodus 19:8, 24:3. It was ratified by blood: Exodus 24:4-8. This was not the “first” covenant absolutely, but the first made with Israel nationally. Previously, God had made a covenant with Adam (Hos. 6:7), and in some respects the Covenant at Sinai adumbrated [adumbrated: To give a sketchy outline of; To prefigure indistinctly; foreshadow.] it, for it was chiefly one of works.So too He had made a covenant with Abraham, which in some respects adumbrated the Everlasting Covenant, inasmuch as it was one purely of grace. Prior to Sinai, God dealt with Israel on the basis of the Abrahamic covenant, as is clear from Exodus 2:24; 6:3, 4. But it was on the ground of the Sinaitic covenant that Israel entered Canaan: see Joshua 7:11, 15; Judges 2:19-21; 1 Kings 11:11; Jeremiah 34:18, 19.
    Pink asks the question, Wherein lay its “faultiness?”

    It was wholly external, accompanied by no internal efficacy. It set before Israel an objective standard but supplied no power to measure up to it. It treated with men in the flesh, and therefore the law was impotent through the weakness of the flesh (Rom. 8:3). It provided a sacrifice for sin, but the value thereof was only ceremonial and transient, failing to actually put away sin. It was unable to secure actual redemption. Hence because of its inadequacy, a new and better covenant was needed.

    Benjamin Keach was an early Baptist who wrote about the covenants:

    “True, there was another Edition or Administration of it given to Israel, which tho’ it was a Covenant of Works, i.e. Do this and live, yet it was not given by the Lord to the same End and Design, as the Covenant was given to our First Parents, viz. It was not given to justifie them, or to give them eternal Life; For if Righteousness had been by the Law, then Christ is dead in vain, Gal. 2.21. And again saith Paul, For if there had been a Law given, that could have given Life, verily Righteousness should have been by the Law, Gal 3.21. But indeed, it was impossible Life, Justification, or Righteousness, could be by the Law, or by any Law, because Man hath sinned, and is now unable to answer the Law of perfect Obedience, all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God: We must therefore now be justified by the Grace of God, through the Redemption which is in Jesus Christ; but tho’ Man had lost his Power to obey, yet God hath not lost his Poer to command. ‘Therefore, as Dr. Owen shews, it (was added or) revealed in the Wisdom of God, as instructive; as also, to shew the Excellency of that State and Condition, in which we were created; with the Honour that God put upon our Nature: from whence Directions unto a due Apprehension of God and ourselves, may be taken or derived. It served to shew what a Righteousness Man once had, and by his Transgression lost and also what a Righteousness ‘tis, which the Holiness of Go doth require, in order to our Justification in his sight.” Benjamin Keach on the covenant of works with Israel | Particular Voices

    I hope that helps. A lot has been written about the covenants from a Baptist perspective in the last 5 years. If you want a list of titles I can make another post.

    Yours in the Lord,

    jm
     
  18. JM

    JM Particular Baptist Supporter

    +2,856
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    CA-Others
    QUESTION for your Presbyterian friends when you discuss baptism. Since they believe in covenant, household baptism...

    If a couple comes to faith in their 50's and they have children in their late 20's - do you baptize them? Why or why not?
     
  19. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

    +2,583
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    nm
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  20. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

    +2,583
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    nm
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
Loading...