It's Not Too Soon to Debate Gun Control

[Aldebaran]

Wouldn't you say that the criminal thus deserves what they get?

Look, I can see that you're squirming around trying to justify yourself, but it's not working. But to humor you, I'll just tell you that if someone decides to kill you, then you can answer the question of whether you deserve to die and if the person trying to kill you is the one who should be allowed to make that decision for you. If you think he should, then go ahead and let him kill you. If not, then defend yourself.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Look, I can see that you're squirming around trying to justify yourself, but it's not working. But to humor you, I'll just tell you that if someone decides to kill you, then you can answer the question of whether you deserve to die and if the person trying to kill you is the one who should be allowed to make that decision for you. If you think he should, then go ahead and let him kill you. If not, then defend yourself.

Why are you squirming around the question? If you kill the person who's trying to kill you, wouldn't you say that person deserved to die?

(I know you're pro-life; I would assume that includes your own...)

 

[Aldebaran]

They thought they were.

Usually the only people who blame the victims of a con game are the con artists themselves... interesting.

Well, I'm not Russian.
But if you don't think people can think for themselves when they see ads, then you would be against all political ads from either side.

Of course not -- I'm an agnostic.

But you have a lower view of everyone else. Interesting.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why are you squirming around the question? If you kill the person who's trying to kill you, wouldn't you say that person deserved to die?

(I know you're pro-life; I would assume that includes your own...)

Defending yourself doesn't necessarily involve killing. Most gunshot wounds are survivable.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, I'm not Russian.
But if you don't think people can think for themselves when they see ads, then you would be against all political ads from either side.

If ads didn't work, nobody would use them.

We know for a fact that a foreign government worked to sabotage the Clinton campaign... Mueller's gathering the evidence on who in this country they were working with.

But you have a lower view of everyone else. Interesting.

Experience makes one wise.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Defending yourself doesn't necessarily involve killing. Most gunshot wounds are survivable.

As are most hit and runs... after all, most of the people that nice White Supremacist ran over survived...

What else did they deserve?

 

[Aldebaran]

If ads didn't work, nobody would use them.

We know for a fact that a foreign government worked to sabotage the Clinton campaign... Mueller's gathering the evidence on who in this country they were working with.

Even if true, other countries frequently do what they can to influence what other countries do, whether it's who will be chosen in an election, or what decisions are made by those who are in power. The USA is currently attempting to influence the leadership in NK and Iran regarding their nuclear programs. Perhaps we should be investigated....

Experience makes one wise.

Considering the statement that you responded to when saying this, it's obvious that you think you're better than everyone else.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Even if true, other countries frequently do what they can to influence what other countries do, whether it's who will be chosen in an election, or what decisions are made by those who are in power. The USA is currently attempting to influence the leadership in NK and Iran regarding their nuclear programs. Perhaps we should be investigated....

...and held responsible for the results. Or is responsibility a taboo in Donald's American vision?

Considering the statement that you responded to when saying this, it's obvious that you think you're better than everyone else.

Not necessarily everyone.... I'm sure a lot of those 128 million didn't fall for the fake news.

 

[wing2000]

Yep. We're in "phase one". I'd like to keep it that way. And since Europe is our canary in the coal mine, I expect it will stay that way.

Phase one of religious discrimination.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide which religions are worthy of protection under our Constitution and which ones are not.

It's sad that so many forgot why various Christian groups came to the Americas in the first place....

 

[Ygrene Imref]

You divide people into law abiding and criminal, with the criminal always looking to always disobey the law. Real people don't divide up so easy, and many times the shooters we are discussing would have been dissuaded by laws against their acquiring guns. Lets do some sensible things.

- Require licenses to own and use guns
- Require registration of all guns and reference ballistic information on each gun
- Require all stolen guns be immediately reported
- Make automatic weapons illegal and modification of weapons to become automatic illegal
- Limit size of allowable magazines
- Background checks on all transfer of gun titles

Sure, some people would secretly hide and hoard guns. But those who did so would be less likely to make them available for mass shooting sprees. After all, the guns that are involved in mass shooting sprees wind up getting locked up in evidence lockers, no longer available to the owner. Laws like that, if in place, would very soon reduce the number of shooting sprees occurring in this country.

My qualification for the groups of citizens is simplistic because gun control issues (specifically, concerning additional and more restrictive gun laws) are ludicrous.


You are still missing the point that only law-abiding citizens, by definition, will follow those suggestions. Some of what you suggest is already part of State and/or Federal Gun Laws.

Criminal, or persons who want to commit crime (aka "criminals") will always find a way to break the law to do what they want.

Adding more laws to fight criminality is Draconian; you fight crime with a successfully enforced legislative system. American legislation is neither successful, nor enforced - which is the foundation of the problem. The prisons are privately owned,and corruption exists on high level, and entire groups of people are targeted for incarceration, not rehabilitation.


Adding more gun laws is putting the horse before the cart, and will only hurt law-abiding citizens.

 

[Hank77]

A shooting leaves a horrific scene where body parts, blood, bodily tissues are strewn about among the dead. I think it is more of a sense of respect for the living, that had gone through the ordeal that I personally feel a different sense of respect for. The family of the food poisoning victim may disagree, but I feel a different sense of respect and remorse for the shooting victims. Somehow, their death was worse in my opinion, and worth more respect.

Maybe because the restaurant didn't deliberately murder anyone. They're both a tragedy but one is so violate and wanton that it is just pure evil.

 

[Aldebaran]

...and held responsible for the results. Or is responsibility a taboo in Donald's American vision?

You mean you want to see anyone who supported Donald Trump to be punished because you didn't support him. Is that what democracy looks like?

 

[TLK Valentine]

You mean you want to see anyone who supported Donald Trump to be punished because you didn't support him. Is that what democracy looks like?

If I had meant that, I probably would have said something that a reasonable, rational person would be able to interpret as such. Clearly, I did no such thing.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Phase one of religious discrimination.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide which religions are worthy of protection under our Constitution and which ones are not.

It's sad that so many forgot why various Christian groups came to the Americas in the first place....

In all fairness, many of them forgot shortly after they stepped off the boat... The rest have simply forgotten their history.

 

[Aldebaran]

If I had meant that, I probably would have said something that a reasonable, rational person would be able to interpret as such. Clearly, I did no such thing.

Then say what you mean.

 

[rturner76]

Where I live there are people in their 70's and 80's that have attended church regularly their entire lives - and can't explain the difference between the old and new testaments.

The single video I posted is the equivalent of a college quality lecture on the subject, and covers material that is foreign to most muslims I've talked to, yet critical to understanding the history and teaching o islam.

I don't think there are many colleges that would consider that presentation a 1000 level or higher lecture on Islam. Mostly because throughout the entire video he mistakenly calls other texts besides the Quran "Islamic doctrine" when one of the first things taught as a Muslim is that only the Quran is actual doctrine. It is recommended that you study the life of Muhammad if you are Muslim but nothing is required reading but the Quran. So many many Muslims read The Hadith and such to find out what he did, how hes at, when he ate, how he dressed but none of it is a requirement like I say, but the Quran

But anyway, I'll get back on topic and say that I think stricter regulations on semiautomatic firearms would help make it harder for these groups to obtain weapons in the USA

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then say what you mean.

I did... people who manipulate others should be held at least morally responsible for their actions.

...although occasionally, they can be held legally responsible. Ever hear of the Tracy Robertson case?

Woman Who Falsely Cried Rape Convicted of Manslaughter

Short version: Husband comes home and catches wife in bed with another guy. Wife shouts "rape!" man shoots and kills guy as he tries to get away. Only problem -- not rape, just adultery.

Husband never gets charged; wife gets 5 years in prison.

 

[Aldebaran]

In all fairness, many of them forgot shortly after they stepped off the boat... The rest have simply forgotten their history.

If you're so interested in fairness, stop pretending to know what entire groups of people remember or have forgotten. By your own profile description, you demonstrate that you're not even a part of the group you claim to be such an expert about.

 

[Aldebaran]

I did... people who manipulate others should be held at least morally responsible for their actions.

...although occasionally, they can be held legally responsible. Ever hear of the Tracy Robertson case?

Woman Who Falsely Cried Rape Convicted of Manslaughter

Short version: Husband comes home and catches wife in bed with another guy. Wife shouts "rape!" man shoots and kills guy as he tries to get away. Only problem -- not rape, just adultery.

Husband never gets charged; wife gets 5 years in prison.

Aaaaaaand now you're off topic once again. First, we were talking about what you believe to be Russia's influence over an election, and now you bring up a case where someone claims to be raped. Squirm much?

 

[TLK Valentine]

If you're so interested in fairness, stop pretending to know what entire groups of people remember or have forgotten.

I don't need to pretend -- I observe, and I listen.

Case in point: With Thanksgiving coming up, many people are going to be fondly remembering the Pilgrims... do you know why they came to America?

By your own profile description, you demonstrate that you're not even a part of the group you claim to be such an expert about.

Which means I'm not required to drink the Kool-Aid... believe me, that stuff's no good for you.