It's Not Too Soon to Debate Gun Control

[ThatRobGuy]

This analogy really suggests that if there is a food poisoning problem at a particular restaurant, we need to look for changes to how we license restaurants and do inspections. Sometimes we just have bad restaurants that ignore the rules.

While there are some restaurants that ignore the rules...that doesn't negate the rest of the analogy. Laws and requirements for food service change pretty regularly with outbreaks of certain viruses. Recalls from food sourced from certain regions, etc...

I think the Chipotle incident here in the midwest/northeast is recent enough for us to remember...after that took place, there were changes to the rules for food handling and where certain kinds of food could (and could not be) sourced from. Nobody said "c'mon guys, the vomit isn't even cold yet and you're already pushing for changes to the law!?!?"

 

[Almost there]

I've seen similar memes...and while I would agree that signage in particular probably doesn't accomplish much, the overwhelming implication by everyone in the far-right camp when it comes to gun laws seems to be "laws are pointless, the bad guys will still break them, so why have them?", which would be utterly false. While it's true that there will be some bad guys who throw laws to the wind, laws are fairly effective at dictating behavior for the lion's share of people in the country.

Actually, the point of the meme is that in reality the perps know that there is low likelihood that any law abiding citizens inside will be armed.

 

[SummerMadness]

@ThatRobGuy

Along the lines of your thinking between the food poisoning and a shooting, I do see the logic behind this. I do think it might be the stark in your face violence that is represented by a shooting, as opposed to a person dying, that makes people pause.

A shooting leaves a horrific scene where body parts, blood, bodily tissues are strewn about among the dead. I think it is more of a sense of respect for the living, that had gone through the ordeal that I personally feel a different sense of respect for. The family of the food poisoning victim may disagree, but I feel a different sense of respect and remorse for the shooting victims. Somehow, their death was worse in my opinion, and worth more respect.

A violent car accident or plane crash would also result in a horrific scene. Or let's compare it to the car attacks we've seen, should we wait to discuss how to prevent those attacks? I think it's worth discussing vehicle restrictions and erecting barriers along pedestrian/bicycle paths. There is obviously a problem in this country that we don't have in other countries and the "criminals will bypass the law" argument doesn't fly because there are many people that were law abiding citizens before they went on a rampage. We also have the factor of suicides as well as violence with stolen weapons (which are often under reported). Instead of taking a common sense approach, we have people shouting that nothing can be done.

My attitude:

• Every gun owner should be required to get a license and go through firearms training.
• Every gun should have a registered/titled, even the ancient heirlooms. If you sell a gun, there should be a title exchange
• Gun title checks should be done yearly. All stolen guns need to be reported, any lapse should result in a fine
• Accessories to increase firing rate of weapons should be outlawed
• Specific types of ammunition should be outlawed (I would even support an added tax for ammunition)
• People convicted of violent crimes, domestic violence, and people with mental health issues should be restricted.

I'm just tossing out some ideas, some of them are already laws, but it's obvious there are breakdowns in the system. But most importantly, there should be regularly compiled statistics on gun violence/deaths so that we have benchmarks. None of these laws prevent law abiding citizens from getting guns, which is why I find it puzzling that people are so adamantly opposed to any reform.

 

[SummerMadness]

Actually, the point of the meme is that in reality the perps know that there is low likelihood that any law abiding citizens inside will be armed.

They stole that from Chris Rock's "No Sex in the Champagne Room."

 

[Ygrene Imref]

How can you think it would not? Not every crime, just some of them.

Criminals are the only ones committing these crimes.

By definition, criminals do not follow laws.

Enacting more laws - instead of enforcing the ones already on the books - only hurts people who follow the law. These are law abiding citizens.

Adding more gun control law will only restrict the law abiding citizen. Criminals will always find a way to do whatever they want to do that is unlawful.

 

[Almost there]

A violent car accident or plane crash would also result in a horrific scene. Or let's compare it to the car attacks we've seen, should we wait to discuss how to prevent those attacks? I think it's worth discussing vehicle restrictions and erecting barriers along pedestrian/bicycle paths.

I believe the car attacks are all muslims.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Criminals are the only ones committing these crimes.

By definition, criminals do not follow laws.

Enacting more laws - instead of enforcing the ones already on the books - only hurts people who follow the law. These are law abiding citizens.

Adding more gun control law will only restrict the law abiding citizen. Criminals will always find a way to do whatever they want to do that is unlawful.

You divide people into law abiding and criminal, with the criminal always looking to always disobey the law. Real people don't divide up so easy, and many times the shooters we are discussing would have been dissuaded by laws against their acquiring guns. Lets do some sensible things.

- Require licenses to own and use guns
- Require registration of all guns and reference ballistic information on each gun
- Require all stolen guns be immediately reported
- Make automatic weapons illegal and modification of weapons to become automatic illegal
- Limit size of allowable magazines
- Background checks on all transfer of gun titles

Sure, some people would secretly hide and hoard guns. But those who did so would be less likely to make them available for mass shooting sprees. After all, the guns that are involved in mass shooting sprees wind up getting locked up in evidence lockers, no longer available to the owner. Laws like that, if in place, would very soon reduce the number of shooting sprees occurring in this country.

 

[SummerMadness]

I believe the car attacks are all muslims.

No, not all car attacks are Muslims (e.g., Charlottesville).

 

[TLK Valentine]

I disagree about that last one. The internet has really levelled the playing field. The first casualty was Dan Rather. Truth really does percolate to the top now more than ever.

Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

Care to rethink that statement, Comrade?

 

[Almost there]

No, not all car attacks are Muslims (e.g., Charlottesville).

I don't see Charlottesville as a car attack. I see it as a guy trying to get away from people beating his car and ignoring protesters in front of him.

Car attacks are where the guy in the car starts it...

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, not all car attacks are Muslims (e.g., Charlottesville).

Now, now... there were good people on both sides at Charlottesville...

... I can only assume our President meant on "both sides" of the steering wheel.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't see Charlottesville as a car attack. I see it as a guy trying to get away from people beating his car and ignoring protesters in front of him.

Car attacks are where the guy in the car starts it...

She deserved to die... interesting perspective.

 

[Aldebaran]

Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

Care to rethink that statement, Comrade?

How many of those 126 million people lost the ability to make their own decision about who to vote for?

 

[TLK Valentine]

How many of those 126 million people lost the ability to make their own decision about who to vote for?

They lost the ability to make an informed decision.

 

[Almost there]

Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

Care to rethink that statement, Comrade?

Not at all. The truth percolates to the top.

 

[Aldebaran]

They lost the ability to make an informed decision.

You mean they couldn't think for themselves and do their own research because of a russian posting? Are there any posts you read on this site that keep you from thinking for yourself?

 

[Aldebaran]

What would you call self-defense?

Necessary when your life is about to be ended by a criminal.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You mean they couldn't think for themselves and do their own research because of a russian posting?

They thought they were.

Usually the only people who blame the victims of a con game are the con artists themselves... interesting.

Are there any posts you read on this site that keep you from thinking for yourself?

Of course not -- I'm an agnostic.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Necessary when your life is about to be ended by a criminal.

Wouldn't you say that the criminal thus deserves what they get?

 

[expos4ever]

It is odd how some, repeat some Christians seem to have adopted an entirely anti-gospel package of right wing American ideas:

- guns;
- militarism;
- nationalism;
- suspicious ideas about race.